Author Topic: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits  (Read 4695 times)

FlyingFoxFruits

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Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« on: April 03, 2025, 01:02:20 AM »
https://www.flyingfoxfruits.com/s/stories/flying-fox-fruits-and-the-naming-of-rare-fruits

Over the last decade, there has been an influx of new names being adopted the within the rare fruit community. A few that come to mind include, the "Red" Jabuticaba (Plinia cauliflora hybrid), the "Starcherry" (Eugenia selloi), and the "Pitombatuba" (Eugenia selloi x luschnathiana).

Before I began my nursery officially in 2014, I had started the process of acquiring new and useful rare fruit trees for my collection, as early as 2007. When I first started collecting it was near impossible to find any other variety of Jabuticaba, besides the most common form, "Sabara" (Plinia jaboticaba).

After conducting intense field research. reading many books on the subject, and most importantly the advent of the recently pubilshed manuscript "Brazilian Fruits and Cultivated Exotics" by Harri Lorenzi et al., I was able to form a scientific opinion that was based on a deeper understanding of recent discoveries within the genus Plinia. Which led me to the conclusion, that all nurseries in the United States had mislabeled all of their "Sabara" Jabuticaba trees as Myrciaria cauliflora, which designates an entirely different species, and much less common in nursery trade in the USA.

Further evaluation led to the conclusion that the "Precoce" or "Hibrida" variety of recent introduction to Brazil, had already been introduced into the USA, and was being sold under the moniker "Everbear" by Larry Shatzer at Our Kids Nursery, in Winter Garden, FL, since at least 2005. The name I began marketing the fruit under was the translation for the name given in the Brazilian Fruits book, which was "Vermelha" or simply translated as "Red".

From what I've gathered since, this was a mistake in the book, where they labeled both the "Precoce/Hibrida" and the "Vermelha" as different fruits, when indeed they're one in the same, and the "Vermelha" fruits were picked early, hence the red coloration, and misnomer due to the appearance when harvested. In short, the name "Red" jaboticaba was first used by Adam Shafran (me), when I started to popularize the fruit around 2010, in posting on the Tropical Fruit Forum, and giving speeches across FL to the rare fruit clubs.

The name has stuck, probably because the fruit doesn't get the same black color as "Sabara" and it can very readily be eaten early when picked with a red coloration. The fruit is actually non astringent, whereas the Sabara is astringent, thus the "Red" Jaboticaba lends itself to being harvested early during its red colored phase, before it reaches full maturity with a deep purple color, never really black like Sabara.

As for the Eugenia selloi, and the usage of the name "Starcherry" which has been widely adopted in recent years, I would like to let it be known, that the name was coined by me. Mainly because there is no credit given on the internet to me for this naming. It's meant to be used as a compound word, to avoid confusion with the "Star'" Cherry, which is a preexisting variety of Prunus.

Furthermore, the recent discovery of the Eugenia selloi x luschnathiana "Pitombatuba", was due to my efforts in growing both the Pitomba and Pitangatuba in close proximity for years on my farm. The crossing of the two species occurred casually, and the seedlings it produced were accidentally sold to nursery growers and wholesalers, some of which ended up realizing they had something special, only after being told exactly what they had, by me. I had predicted my Pitombatuba mother tree was a hybrid before it ripened fruits. I was able to tell by looking at the plant morphology, and confirm my hypothesis of this hybrid long before anyone else.

Hopefully in the future I can ensure that the impact I'm making in the rare fruit community is fully understood, and appreciated. Until the next new fruit is named, please stay tuned.
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MadFarm

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2025, 01:32:37 AM »
Tuned in!

NissanVersa

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2025, 08:59:08 AM »
Domestic OG for sure.  I remember when FFF was the only one running ebay bidding. Helped to spread so much knowledge in the community. Thank you!

JCorte

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2025, 10:43:31 AM »
Hi Adam, I have many of your plants in my home garden, and a few of the seedling Jabos you gifted me are showing unique characteristics. 

Thank you so much for all your contributions!  Glad to see you posting on the forum again.

Janet

ScottR

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2025, 12:20:22 PM »
Appreciate your hard working efforts Adam, tuned in and turned on! 8) ;)

roblack

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2025, 12:56:04 PM »
Much appreciation to you Adam, and FFF! Some of my collection is from FFF, and I know you helped spread the word and much genetics. They should name a plant after you, and maybe even an airport (concourse at least).

FlyingFoxFruits

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2025, 01:04:55 PM »
thanks everyone for all the kind words!

One more note I'd like to make about the origins of the "Anomaly" variety.

It is by no means a seedling of the "Red" Jabuticaba.

It originates from an unidentified tree that was grown at Gene Joyners place in West Palm Beach, Unbelievable Acres.

The mother tree did not show the same precocious habit, or intense flowering habit as the seedling "Anomaly".

Even of the 3 seedlings I planted from Gene's tree to originally obtain the Anomaly, there was only 1 of three that fruited so early, the others were not precocious at all.

The seedling is a chance mutation, from an unidentified tree which was over 20yrs old I assume, growing at Unbelievable Acres, this was back in 2012. 

Since then I have heard the tree may be gone, but I'm not sure what happened to his collection after his recent passing...I'm sad I never got a chance to visit...I tried, but I remember you had to schedule an appointment and it was a cumbersome process...Now in my later years, I appreciate the way he ran his business with this process, to weed out the annoying visitors I assume, very smart.

Any how, it's troubling to see the AI models providing false information about my business and my accomplishments.  With possible court proceedings coming up in the next year to asses the valuation of my business, I feel like it's important for me to clearly document and explain all that I've contributed.
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gardenGnostic

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2025, 01:10:59 PM »
If we ever get the fruit wiki going, it'd be nice to have an etymology/history section on each page. A lot of the English common names for various species/varieties were coined by members of this forum, and for other languages as well many common names don't have a well-documented history.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2025, 11:08:06 PM by gardenGnostic »

elouicious

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2025, 01:29:51 PM »
Any how, it's troubling to see the AI models providing false information about my business and my accomplishments.  With possible court proceedings coming up in the next year to asses the valuation of my business, I feel like it's important for me to clearly document and explain all that I've contributed.

Thanks for the contributions Adam, while it is disheartening to see that you might have to defend on the legal/IP front I think those who are in the community know of your outsized presence in shaping the field- perhaps including this forum thread could be somewhat of an endorsement/argument in and of itself

sc4001992

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2025, 02:18:07 PM »
Good job Adam. Thank you for the Peluche loquat, nice large fruits on that baby.

Central Floridave

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2025, 02:20:07 PM »
Jaboticaba take so much time before they provide fruit.  Luckily they are very ornamental plants and when they do flower and fruit it is icing on the cake. 

I'm glad there are people like Adam that dedicated much their working life on propagating jaboticaba and developing new hybrids. 

I remember 20 years ago hardly anyone had a Jaboticaba but nowadays they are much more common and known. At least here in Central Florida. 

Cool read. Thanks for sharing the info and good luck on your paving paradise predicament. 

JCorte

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2025, 03:42:30 PM »
My Anomaly from Adam getting ready to flower



Flowering Myrciaria guaquiea from Adam





Helping to document that without you, I wouldn’t have these rare plants.  Many more in my collection.😁

Janet
« Last Edit: April 03, 2025, 03:44:35 PM by JCorte »

FlyingFoxFruits

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2025, 04:52:27 PM »
My Anomaly from Adam getting ready to flower



Flowering Myrciaria guaquiea from Adam





Helping to document that without you, I wouldn’t have these rare plants.  Many more in my collection.😁

Janet

Jcorte, i wanna buy that anom from u, wow!

thanks for sharing...

I was thinking, and actually researching my own name and its meaning...

the results a bit shocking.

Adam Dana Shafran

I had known the meaning of my first and last name (first one is obvious, the last name not so much, but it comes from my ancestors who were spice traders, and saffron was the spice of choice, the most expensive in the world by weight, and the most adulterated it seems nowadays)

I never researched the meaning of my middle name, maybe because it always kind of bothered me, because it gave my friends fair game to tease me about the popular female version of the name.  I came to find out recently that it has something yet again to deal with the trade of rare items, pearls in this case, ones that are of perfect size, and grade (if I'm not mistaken).  The other meaning i found for the name Dana was arbiter.

I think my mom got lucky with the name selection, or maybe I did....but it suits me well.   ;)
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nattyfroootz

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2025, 09:34:56 PM »
I think it's important to tell the story of these fruits. I have certain cultivars of Feijoa that don't have a story that is easy to find online.  I met someone a while ago who I found out named one of the most interesting sounding cultivars in my collection.  I very much appreciated it and am happy to be able to tell his story. I appreciate Adam putting it out there plainly because there is a lot of ambiguity in the details of our community.

I, as a grower of subtropical fruit with the intention of selling it, am guilty of trying to create names that are easier for the american mind to wrap it's head around.  I think that there are some easy names to grasp but having something more relatable is ultimately what get's some people more interested in a fruit. I understand the debate around it and do see that it is important to provide the native name in some context. Common names are IMO the bane of the plant world as they are often so typical and unexplanatory. I love taxonomy and I love learning the indigenous names of plants and and the stories of plants created in the modern era. 

We are all contributing to this plant community in whatever way it may be and I think we should be able to embrace the importance of all of the work we are all doing. 
Grow cooler fruits

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2025, 12:43:08 PM »
BloomAndSprout, thank you for the detailed breakdown. I didn’t make it through all of MangoStein’s post myself, but your analysis showed the motivations behind his rant.

I am going to delete all of the posts that aren't related to Adam's thread purpose later today. I figured I'd give Adam a chance to see and respond before I delete the irrelevant posts.

thanks Mura,
has anyone even fruited Talisia esculenta in USA?  If there's virtually none fruiting, or very few, that would make sense why nobody cares about the name confusion.

It looks like there's a few, what I've read about Talisia esculenta is that it's just an OK, mediocre fruit that is surpassed by many other fruits if you have limited space. It's unlikely to cause much real-world confusion, just the potential exist if looking up resources in Spanish or Portuguese you must be consciously aware of this fact. I looked around to see if that other guy was even correct on that and in that "pitomba" is used for the Talisia over there, he is right on that, going on YouTube, searching for "pitomba" and filtering by newest uploads (this removes algorithm bias for English language or highly rated or watched videos) shows all foreign language results for "pitomba" showing the Talisia fruit.

Practically however the Talisia esculenta will never be a fruit desired enough here to cause English-speaking confusion in any significant confusion. I myself label my Eugenia l. seedlings as "pitomba" as I like the name.

Julian R

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2025, 12:58:36 PM »
BloomAndSprout, thank you for the detailed breakdown. I didn’t make it through all of MangoStein’s post myself, but your analysis showed the motivations behind his rant.

I am going to delete all of the posts that aren't related to Adam's thread purpose later today. I figured I'd give Adam a chance to see and respond before I delete the irrelevant posts.

thanks Mura,
has anyone even fruited Talisia esculenta in USA?  If there's virtually none fruiting, or very few, that would make sense why nobody cares about the name confusion.

It looks like there's a few, what I've read about Talisia esculenta is that it's just an OK, mediocre fruit that is surpassed by many other fruits if you have limited space. It's unlikely to cause much real-world confusion, just the potential exist if looking up resources in Spanish or Portuguese you must be consciously aware of this fact. I looked around to see if that other guy was even correct on that and in that "pitomba" is used for the Talisia over there, he is right on that, going on YouTube, searching for "pitomba" and filtering by newest uploads (this removes algorithm bias for English language or highly rated or watched videos) shows all foreign language results for "pitomba" showing the Talisia fruit.

Practically however the Talisia esculenta will never be a fruit desired enough here to cause English-speaking confusion in any significant confusion. I myself label my Eugenia l. seedlings as "pitomba" as I like the name.

Looks like we've been calling it Pitomba over here in the states since at least 1987 and potentially 1914. Source: https://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/pitomba.html
Wikipedia also mentions that it has a shared name with Talisia esculenta as well.



FlyingFoxFruits

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booeyschewy

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2025, 05:02:13 AM »
I live in Bahia Brazil. I can confirm that both the Eugenia and talisia species are called pitomba only. If someone is knowledgeable they might called it pitomba da bahia vs pitomba do norte but I’ve only seen that online and never in person. It’s a strange hill to die on. Here Bacuri and bacupari are used for various fruits of different species and genus. The tupi-guarani words we’ve inherited are up often just descriptions that were taught to the Portuguese, sometimes outside the native range of the translators. Pitangatuba if you break it down means big red fruit (big pitanga actually, but pitanga means red fruit) so these things are fluid, historical and sloppy. That said I find calling Eugenias broadly cherries and the spondias families plums strange or strained but that’s language for you!

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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2025, 08:18:26 AM »
Though we do not collect jaboticabas or grow plants similarly, Adam at FFF provided me with some of my most memorable exotic fruit tastings, provided some of my favorite fruit trees and was a source of the inspiration to start FVF
Adam/FFF is a tropical fruit legend in my mind🐸e❤️FFF, All the best Adam


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Re: Flying Fox Fruits and the Naming of Rare Fruits
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2025, 04:11:29 PM »
Here's one thing I think might have been glossed over. I've noticed so many times over the years Adam himself has lamented over the differences in certain fruit names, and has highlighted the importance of the scientific name when talking to other fruit people. That's really stuck with me and I continue use the scientific name when talking to people or labeling my plants (Ex. "Here's my Pitomba, Eugenia Luschnathiana"). This helps clear any confusion when inevitably common names don't match up.

I also appreciate that Adam has said many times it doesn't matter if you can pronounce the scientific name correctly, as long as you can spell it that's all that matters. Common names will always be a shit show, more so across languages and cultures, so the scientific name should always be the main focus. And if you want to debate the common names that's fine, but I feel like it's importance should always be secondary.
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