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Messages - CeeJey

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1
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Ice cream bean questions
« on: February 21, 2024, 03:12:58 AM »
I'm mostly interested in learning about their tolerance for frequent cold (non-freezing) temperatures in winter, as my greenhouse is only heated to prevent freezing, and is usually in the 30s and low 40s for most of the winter. Some things like dragonfruit just cannot handle it, while avocados and some south american species like Physalis peruviana flourish and even keep growing vigorously all winter.

Also, whether anyone has tried using bonsai techniques (wide/shallow pot and root pruning) to reduce the vigor a bit. If I end up liking it enough to grow, that would be my long-term plan to help keep it under about 9 feet tall.

I have a couple in the yard in Phoenix, and the established one can take 30s and 40s just fine (it goes dormant-ish) except it sometimes loses some tips in the low 30's and will absolutely die back to a stump from actual frost. Under a cover they don't seem to care, especially not seedlings.

Might be worth trying an air pot for a bonsai one, I have a couple of leggy seedlings doing okay in airpots but too young to fruit.

I am doubtful that bonsai culture will keep these fruiting at a reasonable size.  Mine didnt fruit until it had a 2.5in diam trunk.  It fills its container with 100% roots and even my root pruning it severely along with removing major limbs occasionally doesn't seem to slow its growth.

There's a nursery in LA that had air layers at least a year old (probably two based on the span of the lateral branches, these had been sitting there a while) that were fruiting in five gallon pots in December, like eight or nine pods on a four-foot tree. I picked up two and one is still in the five gallon pot, one just got planted, both are putting on a new round of flowers.  Probably depends on the tree. I can take pictures tomorrow of the one I just planted. EDIT: I'm trying to remember which freaking nursery, it was south of Compton.

2
Back in the 90's I successfully grew Ein Sheimer and Anna apples in Hillsborough County Florida. They produced impressive crops every year but the apples were pretty small and not the best eating apples, but they weren't bad. Also grew some Florida Prince freestone peaches which were absolutely delicioso.

I have a Dorsett Golden that I accidentally planted on the "zone 10" side of the yard (near a west facing brick wall) and it still produces (heck, it held fruit through a 112+ heat wave). Similar to your case, they're on the small side, but might make a decent pastry filling when there's enough of them. Winter was exceptionally warm last year, too. Also have an Ein Sheimer and an Anna on the other side of the yard that haven't fruited yet but maybe this year.

EDIT: More on topic, a lot of the "400 or less" stonefruit here iin Phoenix seems to be well on the "less" side and there are a couple of 450ish that seem to be more in the 200 range here. Cherries are a hard nope although I don't know if anyone has seriously tried Capulin out here (I had some seedlings but they died).

3
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Epigenetic cold tolerance in plants
« on: January 05, 2024, 08:52:53 PM »
If I get some time next week (unlikely but miracles happen) I might try to cross-reference some of the chemical changes in the research relating to epigenetic expression with anything induced by application of a foilar or root amendment. It's possible there might be some stuff to kick-start the plant's own natural defenses that increases the chances of epigenetic change.

I've been trying all sorts of crap this year for potential temperature hardiness (in both directions) but way too haphazardly to be able to make any solid conclusions, it's more just throwing things at the wall to see if anything sticks. Anecdotally both of my allspice seedlings are currently pushing new growth (somehow) after they had to be taken inside in these temps last year (these are seedlings from an adapted tree out here), and the one-year-old unprotected mamoncillo isn't flinching at the nighttime lows in the 30s yet.

Good luck this week, drymifolia.

4
I wouldnít really call canistel sub tropical. Itís widely adaptable. Normally itís grown in full sun and on my farm in CR canistel produces much better with more sun. However you have a very different situation in Arizona. Grafted canistel fruits for me here in 3 years in full sun. Iíd be cautious about trying to work in the shade. Perhaps full sun or at least several hours and experiment with some shade cloth.
Peter

Thanks Peter. I might try slowing acclimating it this year by moving it to lighter and lighter shade cloth, which I've done with a couple of the other plants successfully to get them into full sun. It's already shown that it can handle a week of 115+ without flinching in the part shade, so the temp shouldn't be an issue at least.
It's hard to tell with things out here; some things still flower and fruit just fine in part shade while some just won't and there's nothing but personal experience to tell sometimes.

After doing some work in other places closer to the equator that objectively have more sun than here, I'm starting to believe that the lack of humidity combined with the sun is the bigger issue than the raw sunlight. The UV index in most of Puerto Rico is higher average in the summer than here, but lots of stuff will burn here rapidly over 100 that just won't elsewhere. There's some ways to mitigate that with close companion planting and overwatering but at a certain point there's a limit.

5
Hey gang, I have a question for canistel owners. Anyone have one in part shade that bears fruit? I've had a grafted Fairchild for several years on my back patio in an large air-root pot, I'm thinking about transferring it to the ground and am trying to select a location. It hasn't flowered yet (it's about four feet tall) although it's never shown much stress from the temperature fluctuations out here, it's been in part shade since the day I got it. It might be able to handle some more sun given that it has the "shiny green" leaves that tend to handle our sun better.

I don't know anyone who has a fruiting one (or even anyone else that has a live one, although I'm sure there's somebody) out here in the Phoenix area, and normal protocol is "morning sun/ afternoon shade" for just about every subtropical fruit tree.

Thoughts?

6
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Green Sapote best light/sun conditions?
« on: November 04, 2023, 08:51:18 PM »
Thanks gang, these are helpful data points, my gut reaction was part shade as well although I think I need something closer to 30% (aka "thinned moringa/ pomegranate") or full morning sun since at 50% right now it's noticeably bending towards the southwest. It survived the 115s though which is the hard part in any shade.

I recently saw a fruiting lucuma here on the central coast which was living in mostly shade of mac nuts and a white sapote, was producing very nicely. I would be looking for a part shade area in AZ. I just can't see one tolerating full sun 100f+ and low humidity.

I did plant a green sapote in full sun at my office, but it's less than 1 mile from the ocean so it's pretty moderate. It hasn't even blinked and is growing nicely. 1 gallon size. I'll get a photo of it this week if I remember to.

I envy that marine layer.

Mine actually seems to be able to take full sun most of the day at just about 99-101 (the wind knocked the shade fabric off for a couple of days before I noticed). It's actually doing better than my macnut seedlings. But unless it's a serious mutant I don't see how it manages 115+ for a week in all-day sun like we get in July. Sometimes they surprise me though.

7
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Green Sapote best light/sun conditions?
« on: November 04, 2023, 06:25:43 PM »
Hey all,

I've had a green sapote seedling survive its first awful summer out here in Phoenix under 50% shade cloth in a pot (did pretty well actually, kept growing steadily), and I'm thinking about where to plant it for long term. My thought is to plant it in a moderately shady space and let it go get the sun when it is ready similar to some other plants that start out as under story in their original habitat, but I wanted some other opinions since I have little experience with this one. It's kind of rare so I don't want to put it in a place that is going to burn in the summer once it gets too large to effectively use shade cloth but I also don't want to stunt it's growth too much. The one mamey that I had was surprisingly sun tolerant before it died of general nutrient pissiness but that's my only point of reference.

Thoughts?

8
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: trees that suffer injury below 45F / 7C?
« on: September 21, 2023, 04:21:19 PM »
RE autocarpus, anyone have experience knowing how more established kwai muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) do in the 40s? Mine had some leaf damage and I had to pull them inside last year in the low-40s but they were very small, I'm trying to decide if I should try planting some out near the brick wall this year, or letting them stay in pots another year to get some mass.

I'm actively working on trying to get colder-hardy mamoncillo; I had two mamoncillo out of fifteen or so last year that survived with only a little leaf damage all mesa winter with brief drops into the low 40s, but they were all on a stone patio and got the radiant heat from underneath. Y'all northern folk need to bring back fruit walls: https://99percentinvisible.org/article/fruit-walls-before-greenhouses-walled-gardens-created-urban-micro-climates/

9
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Kei apple cold tolerance
« on: September 18, 2023, 05:59:37 PM »
hammer524, can you tell us a bit about your situation?  You only have one tree?  Is it a seedling or clone?  If a clone, where'd you get it? :)


... and how big was it when it first flowered?

I planted this last weekend in ground, it was purchased from Greenlife nursery here. It lost a large branch in our monsoon last month. It was about this size. I've been leaning on its a rooted cutting. but Im not sure.


Huh. Did you get that this year? A couple of months ago I dropped by Greenlife after a visit to their neighbor (worm farm) and they had kei apples but the pots were marked male and female when I was there. They were definitely air-layered or rooted cuttings.

EDIT: Oops just saw that you got it a few years back. Interesting.

10
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Kei apple cold tolerance
« on: September 17, 2023, 07:09:31 PM »
Same thing happened to my seedlings but due to the heat stress ironically. A year's worth of growth died during the July/August heat wave and they regrew from the roots, after making it through last year's summer fine in the same conditions.

11
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Phoenix End of Summer Outdoor Jabo Report
« on: September 14, 2023, 02:03:06 PM »

I have been to Queen Creek Tropicals a few times but they get quite colder that us concrete folk. Are there others in QC growing Jabos?

Now that I think about it, the one person out there growing jaboticaba specifically ended up moving, but he had some reds in pots for at least a couple of years. I'm sure somebody out there is still trying though. More folks out in South Mountain or East Mesa I guess, where the official thermostat numbers on the web may look similar but where if I used the layout they had in relation to block walls, my stuff would be charcoal, and where I can get away with stuff through winter that they can't.

Also I forgot to mention but I probably had to add more lateral shade cloth due to the pool sending gobs of reflected light out from ground level. I'll test this out next year but I'm betting that growing the pots over lawn or groundcover (sweet potato vines even) away from the pool lasers I would have gotten less stress on some of them.

12
Hard to say. Looks a tad different from what I know to be g. mangostana; thinner leaves. But it is small, and could be a different cultivar.

If it grows faster than extremely slow, it is probably not g. mangostana.

That appears to be a large pot for a plant that size. Mangosteen have sensitive roots, too big of a pot can be a problem. Tall and thin pots are probably best, especially when young. Tap root is where its at.

Yeah, it looks a little more like a brasilensis to me but they're really similar small; most of the larger purple mangosteens I've seen have more more "ribbed" spade-shaped leaves iirc. May not be possible to tell till it gets larger?

The air pot he's using *should* be okay for developing taproot if it's a purple and the purple is anything like other garcinia in initial habit (I've used them for achacha, lemon drop, madruno, imbe, also seashore and gummi gutta before the cold got them). That's what they were originally designed for, managing trees with aggressive taproots when small (eucalyptus specifically, I think, although they don't work for everything like that in my admittedly limited experience). It looks happy enough, whatever it is. I've only grown purple mangosteen twice though, briefly, and both times it was taking a seedling off somebody's hands and sending it to a climate where it would possibly not die in the winter.

13
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Wildlands' Eugenia spp. 'Orange' fruited
« on: September 14, 2023, 03:09:33 AM »
Ah, that's a good-lookin' fruit.

Awesome! It really is one of the most delicious Eugenias I've had so far. 
Mine are in full sun in Santa Cruz, California, so definitely not quite what people might get in Texas or Florida.  The plant these seedlings came from got shaded out by an Oak and really didn't seem to like it. Just pruned up the Oak so hoping to see it boost up again.

After having moved from the Bay Area to SoCal to Phoenix, "full sun" doesn't mean the same thing farther south and there's a bunch of plants I've found which really needed full blasting sun in the Bay Area to thrive but need at least a few years of summer shade some places elsewhere if not permanent dappled shade. EDIT: I've heard CORGS do pretty well in the south central valley tho.

Fwiw as a data point for anybody in this thread, 2/3 of my baby CORGS (some orange, red and one of the two garnets I got from Kevin) survived the Phoenix metro summer in part shade and even put on some new growth. I think they'd be doing better in a more temperate climate and I don't know if they'll set fruit well eventually, though. We'll see.

14
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Phoenix End of Summer Outdoor Jabo Report
« on: September 13, 2023, 11:42:35 PM »
What part of the valley are you in? Im a few miles south of the biltmore?

Over in east technically, right in the middle of that Tempe/Mesa/Chandler/Gilbert tangle. Not too far from the Golfland.

It's actually a few degrees hotter in our neighborhood thanks to all the bare concrete to the point that for the last few years at least we haven't dipped below 35 and stays hotter summer nights, and I've had to treat things differently then people I know out in South or North or QC.

15
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Phoenix End of Summer Outdoor Jabo Report
« on: September 13, 2023, 07:00:06 PM »
Nice write-up CeeJey!

Campo ramon did poorly in the heat here as well-

Escalarte seems to do well in the heat to add to your data

Thanks elouicious, and thanks for the additional data point on the campo ramon. I'm thinking I might transfer mine over to my parents' place in SoCal along with some of the others that seem to do better there (grimals, restinga), eventually I'd like to establish some up in the other family place up in the bay area along with the guabiju.

Escalarte I might try again but it's another one of those like the White that HATES my water to the point that even germinating them without distilled is a PITA, about on par with repanda or floribunda for me. I have one left that is just hating life right now, but I might move it outside after hearing this.

A+ excellent report.

I lost most of my jabos this past July from misters being faulty. Would love to meet up sometime and check out your collection

Thanks, and dang sorry to hear about the loss of the plants! That's terrible! Critical irrigation failure is a nightmare of mine for sure; the worst I've had so far is a couple of lost plants of various kinds from a single quarter-inch hose popping off under pressure without me noticing. And yeah I'd be down to compare notes sometime!

Also, I was going to originally mention my irrigation setup just in case anybody was curious, so I should mention it here: what I've been using for irrigation to most of the plants are little collars made of quarter-inch irrigation line with holes punched in one side with a pushpin (this is cheaper than actual drip line and I can control the width of the holes better):




Those are connected via the T connector to 1-3 other plants collars all connected to a 2gph dripper (or 1gph if only one plant) attached to the main line:



This works out to about 30-50 cents per plant this year (it'd be less if I could have gotten them wholesale but oh well) and seems to do the job in the heat; I'm wasting more water than I would like but hoping to fine-tune it over the next couple of years. They still get plenty of evaporative moisture in the air and the slow drip keeps the plants from drying out even in the air pots.

16
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Phoenix End of Summer Outdoor Jabo Report
« on: September 13, 2023, 06:03:56 PM »
Hey all, so despite the absolutely brutal heat this summer (we had a record-breaking 31 straight days above 110, smashing the previous record of 18 days), I persisted in an experiment to see how various potted jaboticaba (some of them barely 8-12 months old) would handle the summer heat. Please note that I am not an expert (those of you who ARE experts already know that), I'm relatively new to growing plinia and that I probably could have done even better if I had been able to focus entirely on these guys and not have to spread time over the other plants.

All plants were initially acclimated in May-June (100+ temps) in full shade and, if showing no signs of stress, were migrated to 30%-50% dappled shade. All plants were on drip irrigation of twice-daily 15-20 minutes drip (this was a little high but I was trying to be on the safer side), with our crappy crappy hard city water. Feeding was more inconsistent than I would have liked; I used to a combination of various fertilizers but mostly either Tony's Magic Mix or 420 Rejuvenate along with worm casings plus the occasional worm compost tea from the local worm farm. They received two foilar feeds over four months. I also tried out a local product from the worm farm made of diluted fermented soldier fly larvae, which sounds gross but gave a massive benefit to some other plants in terms of heat tolerance (was game-changing for getting things established this year). Almost everything was in a 50/50 peat/pearlite mix. TLDR: They got some food, they got copious daily crappy salty water.

Anyway, on to the Jabo pictures taken today.  The stuff that did better:

Otto Anderson:

These handled the heat better than almost any other variety except for the INTA (and maybe the AxP, needs more testing). They pushed slow new growth through the heat, didn't defoliate, and despite the usual salt burn on old leaves didn't show a huge reaction to the tap water.

INTA:

My surviving seedling from five seeds I got from Marcos and holy crap did this one ever love the heat. It had really struggled inside (in the picture, that nub of growth off to the right was 8 months of pre-summer growth) but as soon as it was outside it took off like a rocket and kept growing through the major heat. I'm going to have to keep an eye on this one when it gets cold to see if it's hardy to all seasons or just tropical.

Sabaras:

The sabaras just kind of plugged along and then started doing well after it cooled off to the mid-100s. They put on some decent growth in the less-hot periods, didn't defoliate or burn much, they were troopers. Interestingly, they did better with our water when it was stupid hot than they did indoors in the cool for some reason (something that was also true for the INTA).

Frankie's Dwarf (sabara/red-descendant probably from Frankie's nursery in Oahu):

I got these from Shiloh last year and, despite being somewhat slow growing inside, they managed to outpace some of the reds in the heat on account of not defoliating. These guys are little tanks.

AxP (white/red cross from Hawaii):

These initially went dormant in the heat (no new growth but didn't lose any foilage either) but have since pushed new growth once the temps wound down below consistent 110s. I think these may be good candidates for heat like the the otto andersons and sabaras/frankies but we'll see. They certainly are doing better than the white jaboticaba.

Red Hybrids:

Almost every small red hybrid did the same thing when exposed to the high temps: initially pushed new growth, then dropped most or all of their leaves, then slowly and painfully recovered and pushed more growth over the next month or two. They've all mostly recovered but some of them look ratty as hell. The larger, older red hybrids took it better; I know from experience that the bigger ones (1-2+ feet tall) do okay out here in the heat in shade but this was my first time trying a bunch of them at once.

Taiwan varieties (T11, T13):

These have been slow growers inside and out, but are actually doing better outside with less signs of salt stress on the new growth. I think these have the potential to do well here given that they were so young and yet had no leaf loss/ major stress.

Honey Drip:

I only had one of these, but the one that I had, did well. Took the heat okay, put on some growth in the cooler days, didn't defoliate.


Stuff that did not so well:


Whites:

Whites took the heat fine BUT they hate our salty water something fierce so basically showed neither growth nor defoliation and just kind of sat there looking sad all summer, except for one that died from what I think was salt accumulation and not the heat specifically. I think if I had a better water source for these they would do just fine in the heat. Whitex crosses seem to do better (see AxP, Taiwanese varieties). Also, they may still adapt.

Campo Ramon:

I only had one that I moved outside, so it may not be a good test, but the Campo Ramon didn't last long in the 110+ before I had to move it back inside (defoliated and did not push new growth, etc.) However as soon as it was back inside it flushed new growth, so I may try again when it is larger and has a bigger rootball.

Grimals:

Grimals all threw a fit when moved into the heat. I'm not actually sure if this was the heat or just what grimals do in response to LITERALLY ANY CHANGE in their environment, but almost all of them lost some number of leaves and put on no or minimal growth, and one died. However, instead of moving them back inside like my single campo ramon, I moved them into full shade on the north side of the house surrounded by potted hibiscus (coolest place in the yard) and they survived and started flushing new growth once it cooled down.

Red Lantern:


This was inconclusive since I only had one of these and it was the only thing I didn't personally start from seed (I got this one from Bellamy's a while back); it hasn't been super happy inside but started to perk up outside in the 90-104 range but struggled past 110 or so. I moved it back inside through the worst of the summer and have since put it back outside; we'll see how it does.




Stuff that either up and died or almost did so:


Restinga.

This was a bit of a bummer, but almost all of the restinga tested completely defoliated and (unlike the reds) did not recover. I moved two back inside and they are slowly putting out a few leaves of new growth on the main stem but may still be goners. If they survive they might just be houseplants again, we'll see.

Conclusions: Vigor matters but not as much as ancestry; the reds were far and away more vigorous (and recovered from initial defoliation relatively rapidly in most cases) but some varieties were clearly more heat-resistant from the get-go. If I were trying to grow a less-crazy amount of these trees I would probably focus on the otto andersons, sabara derivatives and reds; I'd also try and get them up to a foot or so before moving them into the 105+ hellhole. Suprisingly (and happily) almost every variety except for the white jaboticaba got used to the salty garbage hose water when they absolutely had to to survive. They're still showing some signs of salt burn depending on the variety but also still pushing new growth.

Also, what kills and damages these guys is usually not the high day temps as long as they have some shade, but the unrelenting night temperatures above 95+. They can take high day temps if the nights allow them to recover. The day temps have continued to be 105+ on and off for weeks, but the night temperatures cooled back down a tiny amount, and everything started pushing more growth again. Also I think they would have done better if the pots were on grass instead of patio/pool deck due to less reflected heat but I had what space I had.

For my next dumb trick, I'm going to try to grow and fruit some in the ground under a moringa canopy. I'll also be testing yellows, vexators, peruviana and a couple of others I started over the last six months. I may try out some simple hydroponic setups next year as well.

Also, if anyone is interested in another write-up, I can do a follow-up about survival for other eugenias/plinias/myrciara (Rainforest plum did well in part shade, cambuca did okay, mulchi did not enjoy the heat at all, etc.)


17
Thanks guys, good data. I've managed to keep red hybrids and sabara alive outdoors here once they get about a foot of growth or so, so I'll probably give the vexators a shot at acclimating when they get a little bit bigger. This year they'll probably be houseplants.

18
Hey all, so I got a bunch of vexators started this spring and they're doing fantastic overall, WAY healthier (less salt/ph sensitive) all around than most of the true jaboticaba I have, but I'm wondering how they stack up cold-wise. Slightly larger plinia and eugenia seem to do fine out here in the winter with some slight cold protection (they just go part dormant and get the red leaves) but I don't have experience yet with vexators.

I'll probably keep these guys inside while they're little, assuming we ever actually get winter out here in Phoenix, but anybody with any big ones know how they compare to say red hybrid jaboticaba when it comes to cold?

19
Just for an additional data-point: I had five or so which I got from Anderson or Bellamy, initially potted a few in Fox Farms Ocean Forest mix (one of my go-to bagged soils for plants that aren't super-acid-loving, since we don't get pro-mix out here in Phoenix for some reason) and they did not do well. Two died, and I re-potted the three survivors into a mix of 50%/50% pearlite and peat and they immediately perked up although they have since had the same problems that foresight listed although they haven't died yet. So they definitely seem to prefer acid. I've tried different waters periodically (distilled, ro, tap, ph-lowered tap) and they don't seem to have much of a change. I've given them a small amount of fertilizer (some diluted liquid with micros that the jaboticaba get periodically, recently some 420 rejuvenate since that seems non-offensive to most of the acid-lowers) and that didn't change much. They just kind of sit there.

My survivors do look a bit better than yours though, brown edges but at least no serious chlorosis like that.

I haven't paid much attention to them till reading this thread, I might try going back and lowering the ph even further or trying to otherwise think of a way to mimic alluvial plains like in the dry forests they come from (maybe volcanic sand/ basalt with a tiny bit of clay and ph-adjusted, like you'd get washing down from the Andes?). Now I need to get ahold of more so I can experiment.

EDIT: I went back and checked and one is actually still in the original Fox Farms mix in an air pot and doing okay color-wise although basically no growth for three months. They're all getting ph-lowered tap water atm.

2EDIT: I checked my notes and the one survivor in the Fox Farms mix was given some biochar with humic acid back when I was experimenting with that, so it did have some amendment to the base mix. Still way less growth than the other guys. These things remind me of miracle fruit where there must be some hyper-specific set of conditions.

20
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Growing Maqui berry in the desert
« on: August 24, 2023, 11:56:45 PM »
Could be, they are native to Chilean mountains were humidity is lower because of the elevation and cooler temps.

Not sure if I have it in me to hit the reset button and invest another three or four years to get edible berries when I can just buy the powder in bulk online. As an experiment, it served it's purpose.

As for the seaberry tangent, most of those didn't make it either. Our Vegas sun is just too brutal for full contact sun all day. However, three of them are still hanging on. Titan died all the way down to the base and has one tiny offshoot that's sprouted and is growing. Sunny is ratty looking, but still fully alive with some foliage and some new growth is starting to poke out with our cooler temps. Tatiana, which remained in a pot in my backyard with a good amount of shade, is doing just fine. Eva, the Male, Golden Sweet, Orange Glow, and Sirola all bit the dust. So, lesson learned from these, full sun doesn't mean full sun here.

Bummer on the Macqui, but good to know as an experiment for sure.

I had a couple of experimental sea berries die on me, my frugana survived (barely). I've currently got a bunch of seedlings going inside that I'm winnowing for growth, although the freaking mealy bugs love these things and it's a constant battle to keep them from being eaten inside the house. I'm going to try planting them out under a moringa dappled shade cover next year in the coolest part of the yard.

One of the local nurseries here has a giant sign that says "Full sun does not mean full sun in Phoenix" at the entrance, for the Californian transplants.

21
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: water temp 100+
« on: July 27, 2023, 03:36:13 AM »
Time to start zone-pushing tropicals

Are you guys expecting the humidity will keep up if current trends continue? I've wondered about that in regards to Florida.

We keep setting records out here in Phx for most consecutive days over 110, and I lost a bunch of plants this year that handled multiple previous summers (and higher single-day temps for that matter) just fine. It's the lack of humidity out here in our pizza oven of a city and too many nights where it isn't cooling down at all, even some of the true tropicals are not liking that (although some of them are LOVING it). My crappy neighbors need to plant more trees.

I guess being able to grow proper mangosteens out there in Florida might be a minor consolation prize, at least.

22
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Question on Miracle Fruit Tree
« on: July 25, 2023, 09:36:05 PM »
Feijoa (out of season I think in Cali but Sprouts has them periodically) and barbados cherry (including unripe) are pretty amazing in addition to the stuff mentioned so far.

23
We manage to grow citrus (in containers and in-ground) out here despite the super-high-ph salty water. Unless you start seeing issues with the plants themselves then it isn't necessarily an issue imo. I have like eight or so citrus that drink right from our super-salty, super-mineral-y 8-ph tap and they do okay as long as the soil ph doesn't get too high and the drainage is okay.

That said, everything that Janet said is helpful: encourage microorganismal and beneficial rhizome growth, make sure your micronutrients are good (most dedicated citrus fertilizer mixes are pretty good for that), and you can also do what you can to lower the ph of the soil as opposed to the water (seasonal elemental sulfur applications, also I've seen a slight tested lowering by top-dressing with peat moss and coffee grounds periodically) IF your soil ph is high (which is more an issue for us in clay soils than potting mix).

Again, the crust isn't necessarily the sign of an issue. It might not be bothering the plant if everything else is in order and drainage is all right to rinse the salts out of the actual soil when you water.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, some of my potted citrus is in a mix that contains a lot of coir and it doesn't seem to salt burn. The only thing I've had trouble with in regards to rinsed coir are SUPER salt-sensitive and ph-sensitive plants like some plinias or eugenias. And believe me they will let you know when they're unhappy.

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I am not sure how well eugenias tolerate dry indoor air, but for sure they can be fruited in containers.  All my eugenias are in containers and are outside april through september and go in the greenhouse in winter

Notes from the 3% humidity mines: Most of the common varieties seem not to mind dry air indoors or out, although stipitata can get a little touchy. Pitomba and pitangatuba don't care. Most jaboticaba don't seem to care as long as the soil stays moist. I can't imagine any of them mind humid conditions either.

EDIT: I've actually had all of these growing inside just fine during winter when they were small, and some of them have moved back outside for the summer, so I know it's possible. Some of them prefer a lot of light though, and do better in the sun than grow lights ime. But they'll need light over winter.

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Interesting, I didn't know that pink pineapples were genetically modified until reading this. Found a different article stating that Del Monte used gene insertion from tangerines to stop the build up of carotene in favor of lycopene. Wild, TIL.

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