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Messages - TonyinCC

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Gotta love all the Florida pests :(
« on: August 20, 2017, 09:26:50 PM »
There must be some thing that eats them wherever they came from. Wondering if there are any lizard or frog species that eat them..
Even if there is a predator that eats them, there are so many burrowing owls in my neighborhood that they have decimated all the treefrogs and lizards that might help. Literally a half dozen owl nests within a few blocks of me.

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I planted this tree about 6 months ago into the ground, I got a reduced price since it had some damage to trunk about 3 feet off the ground. It has been slowly healing over, if I leave it alone in a year or so it should be healed up. It has replaced most of its leaves since planting and actively growing from the tips. It has been blooming almost continuously but not setting fruit yet.
  I am more concerned about the leggy growth habit. I am wondering if the tree will put out vigorous growth if it is cut back severely. I tipped the growth at the top of the tree hoping to get more branching but nothing happened in over a month so I just took off about 3 feet from the top before taking this picture. It seems like there are no visible buds on older wood and I am afraid to hack away at existing branches unless I am told it will be ok. Was thinking about cutting most of the branches back about halfway or more, hoping to get more branching to fill the empty spaces, but after no regrowth from tipping the top, am now unsure.
 Would I be better off just cutting back the main trunk to below the damaged area at around 3 foot height? If it is better than having a top heavy tree in the future I am patient enough to amputate the top half of the tree....
Tree is now about 9 feet tall.

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I found some varieties I was looking for on Craigslist , sometimes homeowners sell excess pups.... Worth a look anyway.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Starting over after a housefire
« on: July 09, 2017, 10:36:04 PM »
I would add one citrus, Meiwa kumquat. Slow grower, get the biggest one you can.
 I had a potted Eureka lemon years ago that had fragrant blooms almost year round. I used to use a crushed leaf as a substitute for a lemon wedge in drinks if I was out of lemons at any given moment.
Ditch the papaya unless you can find a dwarf, most papayas grow very tall. Even a dwarf might be too tall after a year or so.
Get a Bell Carambola  (starfruit). The only readily available variety that is worth growing and eating IMO.
The Jamaican cherry is a very fast growing tree, mine got to 20 feet with about the same spread and a trunk a half foot thick in about a year in the ground. I guess you could bonsai one but its roots dry out quick and I think it would get water stressed easily, the leaves wilt easily if in a pot. The one I had was trying to wilt daily in a 3 gallon pot despite being watered often until I got it planted in the ground. Even then it acted drought stressed for months before it took off like Jack's beanstalk.  Attractive tree and fruit is good to nibble on but don't expect large harvests. Could potentially be a bonsai showpiece if you could figure out the right balance of moisture, pruning, and soil to limit growth, but I think it would be difficult and maybe not worth the space. Would be a really pretty atrium tree in a shopping mall if it didn't drop fruit everywhere.
Sambac jasmine is not really an edible unless you add the blossoms to tea but you won't regret having one.
 Grumichama is an attractive plant with cherrylike fruit.
Miracle fruit is a must. 

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Rain = Washed Out Mango Flavor?
« on: July 01, 2017, 12:43:35 AM »
Carrie and Mallika were not washed out at my Dad's place in North Ft Myers this entire month of June even though when picked, the stems and fruit both squirted for a couple seconds at every picking. Mallikas have been outstanding this year when properly ripened off the tree 7-14 days,picked off the tree at the first hint of yellowing. Started picking Mallika around June 7, ate the first one June 14  and picked the last bunch June 21, will be eating them until about July 4. Did about 3 pickings a week apart. Could probably have left some on the tree another week if not for squirrel attacks. Picked Carrie this year between May 15-June 21.
  Mallika is a well balanced mango that literally makes your mouth water when eaten, multiple waves of flavor, orange creamsicle was the dominant flavor element with coconut,vanilla,pineapple,and just a hint of muskmelon in the background. I don't know where people are complaining about carrot flavor, they must be picking it too late or otherwise letting it get overripe. Mallika does get that funky mango death flavor if it gets TOO ripe, I guess at its earliest stages of overripe, some detect carrot,I did not.  I am going to plant a Mallika for myself, it is top notch. I would say it is distinct from but on the level of a perfect Dot, but a much healthier,productive tree. One of the few top tier early-mid mangos that don't get washed out by rain, are there others?

256
One important thing to consider is that varieties described as having a strong aroma can smell like a sickly sweet rotting compost pile or worse when nearing ripeness on the tree,even if the fruit tastes great once it is cleaned. If you clean it indoors your house can smell the same for hours or even days.
  Once the fruit is cleaned the aroma will improve and smell sweet and strong in a lot of varieties,  but will permeate your fridge or freezer and make everything in it smell like jackfruit. I find a strong sweet jackfruit aroma pleasant, but everyone else in my family does not.
 My family won't let me clean a fruit indoors or keep fruit in the fridge or freezer along with other food unless I triple bag it outdoors before I even bring it in.  I need a dedicated freezer for jackfruit.
  If aroma is a potential issue,search for varieties that are described as having little aroma or a mild,sweet one.
  One other tip is to chill fruit in a cooler under ice before cutting to minimize latex flow and minimize aroma when cleaning it. Oil your knife and hands with vegetable oil and cut out the core as quickly as possible,wiping as much latex off of cut surfaces before touching them.
Most varieties taste pretty good,the only one that I didn't like was J-31, it had a definite lingering celery component to the taste and was one of the worst offenders in the unpleasant aroma category according to my family. A few other varieties have a barely detectable vegetable taste only when overripe but J-31 is objectionable to me. It got knocked off my list despite the supposed potential for off season fruit. So did any others described as having an earthy aroma.
Best fruit I tasted was Borneo red, cleaned sections were the about the size of a small woman's fist. Mild aroma and outstanding flavor but heard from the grower is was a very finicky hard to grow variety and VERY cold sensitive. Most jackfruit are pretty good, so having the absolute best isn't that important to me. I also heard that the ripening season descriptions aren't a hard and fast rule.
 I have Sweet Fairchild, Lemon crunch, and Black Gold planted out but no fruit yet.

257
The mulberry and fig expert in North Carolina is Dr A.J Bullard. I don't have his number or remember his address anymore,  but I am sure you can get in contact with him from this link.I have known him since the mid 90's but haven't seen him in over 15 years.  Well worth the trip, if you show interest in mulberries it is likely you can talk him into a tour of his place in NC. He was an early pioneer of zone pushing for lots of subtropical fruiting plants and a member of the North American Fruit Explorers.  I know he has a particular fondness for mulberries and has probably tried every variety possible. I would expect he still maintains the best varieties from decades of searching. I can't make promises but you might be able to get scions mailed from him.
http://www.herbarium.unc.edu/Collectors/Bullard_AJ_files/Bullard_AJ.htm

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: The Happiest Plant Story You Have
« on: June 06, 2017, 02:09:08 PM »
It would be easy for your friends to root a small cutting from it just by placing the bottom few inches in water a few weeks before they next see you, that way you could literally have the same plant back next time you see your friends....

259
The Cape Coral canal fill soil in my neighborhood (Burnt Store area near Matlacha) is sandy with up to about 10% made of little bits of fossil shells and coral. There has to lots of Calcium, but I don't know how available it is to the plants.
While digging holes I find some larger chunks of coral up to a foot in diameter. When the ground gets dry, water just beads off and doesn't want to soak in. I had the exact same soil type near Charleston,SC and hated it there too. I had bad blossom rot on tomatoes there and Calcium nitrate cured it, but it doesn't seem to be available in SW Florida. In any event,the sapodillas seem very happy so far in the soil but I have struggled with a lot of other plants, especially avocados.Pretty much anything I plant has to be mulched or as soon as the soil surface dries out,water just beads off and won't soak in.

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It has surprised me that my small tree is not looking one bit stressed though. Powdered kelp is wonderful stuff. I will probably pull the fruit off so I don't get branch breakage but juvenility doesn't seem to be an issue with it wanting to set fruit. (assuming my tree wasn't mislabeled...)

261
  I planted out a 3 gallon size Hasya a couple months ago that was apparently recently potted up,the roots only filled half the pot. It has been heavily mulched but underwatered through the drought, but already set acorn sized fruit and is still blooming. I gave it powdered kelp and Scotts Mor-Bloom and a chelated iron drench and mulched heavily around the tree. I have a much larger 30 gal? Tikal nearby that was also planted about the same time and has been blooming along with Hasya. They seem to like the Cape Coral canal fill spoil that passes for soil here.  Maybe your soil has been amended too much and the tree feels no stress to make it bloom?

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« on: May 17, 2017, 11:37:05 PM »
Pruning a naturally vigorous tree to an open center like that helps keep it much smaller and stimulates fruiting. I have also heard it described as pruning to a basket shape or vase. Trees like mangos and peaches can be kept much shorter with several competing leaders, it minimizes apical dominance. The Japanese have been masters of the art of pruning for centuries, if they can bonsai a redwood, I am reasonably sure that I can keep a VP productive between 15-20 feet indefinitely.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apical_dominance

 My Dad's Valencia pride was out of control only a few years after planting, it was over 20 feet and growing fast. I topped the central leader(tallest main stem) and any other side branches at 10 feet in mid October 2015. All pruning cuts were made above outward or downward facing buds when possible.  It only produced about 30 or so mangos before pruning. In 2016,The year after I topped it, it produced more than double the previous crop. It regrew to about 15 feet by the end of Summer 2016. Vigor was visibly reduced the first year after pruning.
  After it cropped last year, I took out the central leader completely at its base, so the lower side branches are the new leaders. It is important to keep the new leaders competing so one doesn't regain apical dominance. It was at about 12 feet after pruning. This year it has set from 3 different blooms. The tree now puts more energy into fruiting. I have not pruned since after the crop was done last year and it has only gotten about 3 feet taller. That shows that vigor has been further reduced by removing the central leader.(the apex of the tree)  The basic idea when making pruning cuts is to make cuts above a bud that is facing in the direction you want the new branch to grow.(usually not vertically unless you need to replace part of the inner canopy.) This makes the tree spread out rather than up. Every year the inner canopy branches will need to be topped and rotationally replaced every few years, but I bet I will be able to keep my Dad's tree indefinitely at a height such that all fruit are harvestable with a picking pole.... The tallest branches in late Summer might eventually reach 17-20 feet in a few more years, but the fruit should hang no higher than 15 feet. After the crop is done this year, I will prune it to about 12 feet. It looks like the vigor is reduced to the point where I will just need to do maintenance pruning back to about 12-15 or so feet yearly to keep its yearly maximum height in the high teens. I feel keeping a very vigorous tree semi-dwarfed is a reasonable compromise.  If I had not pruned my Dad's tree I am sure it would be well over 30 feet by now. Pic is tree in 2016 before I took out the main central leader.


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A lot of Cape Coral home wells are salty enough to kill avocado and other fruit trees. Salt injury to leaves makes the ends turn brown. I hand water all my trees with Revere osmosis water from my whole house system until they are established. I lost my first round of trees due to salty well water.I had some leaf tip damage like you,but as soon as I added fertilizer, the total salt content was enough to kill trees.. I am on the Western end of the Cape near Matlacha. Supposed to get city water here a couple years ago.... The local soil excavated from digging the canal systems is really horrible stuff too,I gave up on avocados after several rounds of slowly declining trees.

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Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Mayhaw Trees
« on: March 31, 2017, 10:06:33 PM »
Mayhaws make one of the very best jams you will ever taste. I have a bearing age tree at my farm in South Carolina. I will get you some fruit to start seeds from if the last frost didn't wipe out the crop. Worth a try I just don't have room at my place in Cape Coral to grow one.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Inducing flowering and fruiting
« on: March 27, 2017, 07:27:30 PM »
I used Superbloom on a Jaboticaba under 3 feet tall a few weeks ago and I noticed it is pushing bloom buds while transplanting
  it into the ground today, it lost some roots so I hope it holds fruit.

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Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Chelated Iron EDDHA
« on: March 27, 2017, 06:06:59 PM »
What product is it? Sprint 138? I am in Cape Coral and need something better than Ironite for the crummy high pH canal fill "soil" in my yard...

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Inducing flowering and fruiting
« on: March 24, 2017, 10:32:23 PM »
Scott's Super Bloom 12-55-6  worked great on Starfruit and Miracle fruit for me last year. Wish I could get 50 lb bags of it instead of 2 pounds for about 12 bucks at Lowes.
I got an offseason bloom on a Mahachanok  mango tree last fall after giving it some, and it set fruit. I also gave that tree potassium sulfate.
 Super bloom works every time for sure on miracle fruit for me so far. I think I will try to time it and give my 3 bushes doses a couple weeks apart so I always have one fruiting.
 Starfruit is starting to push bloom buds now 2 weeks after a dose.
   Soluble kelp powder (1-3-14) from North American Kelp is also a good generalized bloom stimulator, I used that on lemons as a foliar spray 20 years ago.I had a potted Eureka lemon that would bloom after foliar kelp sprays. I plan on getting a drum of that and trying it on everything. If I only had one supplement to use on everything,it would be soluble kelp powder. 200 bucks for a 25 gal drum of it though but worth every penny. I would guess it has 10 times the nitrogen by the way it makes everything grow.It greens plants up in a similar way to Ironite.  Unlike Ironite, it can be used as a foliar spray . I also used it a tablespoon in a watering can as a general fertilizer. Wonder if it would work on Lychees to force them to bloom?
 North American kelp also sells a liquid plant growth regulator that is supposed to promote flowering. I have not tried it though.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What to grow next?
« on: March 24, 2017, 06:15:11 PM »
Carambola AKA Starfruit should be number one on your list. I planted a 15 gal out last year and within months had harvested over a bushel of fruit at a size of about 6 feet tall. A seedling would take about 1-2 years to get to that point.
It makes a Summer and Winter crop in Florida, maybe it can carry one indoors in a pot in Winter. It can make a few fruit off partial blooms aside from the main crops, I have seen trees holding some fruit during most months of the year here. Tree is fast growing and comes back well after pruning.  A tree that size can be pruned back to get it indoors to a sunny window or sunroom yearly. Bell is the best tasting variety by far. Grocery store starfruit are terrible,not worth eating. I have tasted a half dozen varieties and Bell is the only one I would classify as a good tasting fruit and worth spending money on. Search google with the search words "Carambola growing in the Florida home landscape" I have a Place in SC halfway between Charleston and Columbia,could pick up almost anything on your list in Florida and bring it back, I make 2 round trips a month. I second the suggestions of pitangatuba and miracle fruit. I could ship a few starfruit or miracle fruit for shipping cost when available.

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If you are pushing things on cold hardiness and are expecting a catastrophic freeze, temporarily mulching several feet deep around each tree can be a huge help. I have seen people get bananas to fruit in the Charleston, SC area with that trick. They built a cage with wire fencing several feet in diameter around the plant and mulched a foot above where the leaves come out of the trunk. That way only the top of plants gets frozen back. Lift the cage and spread the mulch after the immediate danger is past. Trees will die if buried for weeks, so cages have to be removed. It would be a fair amount of work doing this 10 times a Winter, once or twice is well worth it to save the plant. Foam pipe insulation around smaller scaffold limbs can help too if the trees are still small. Pruning back to main scaffolds just before the freeze might help too.
  If you had a rural property with a tractor and loader, you could bury trees to save grafts and main scaffolds and dig them out carefully after the freeze.
 Get a couple big bales of hay or a pile of wood chips to keep on hand during the winter months, it probably would have saved all the trees lost in New Orleans. A big enough pile of wood chips that has been sitting a while and kick started with some compost starter and water will actually generate its own heat from starting to decompose. If the warm pile is a few feet from the trees, that can help too... Carambola/Starfruit would seem a good candidate for zone pushing since the tree fruits heavily at a small size. Bell is my favorite variety. You might need to bury the whole tree with mulch during freezes for a winter crop of fruit though.
 These tips might make a difference of a few degrees to hopefully save some trees... Same basic principles people use to protect tea roses and small ornamentals in REALLY cold areas....

270
I have some and am passing by both Sarasota tomorrow before 8AM and St Augustine about 3 hours later, or could stick a few in the mail.  It produces fruit the first year.
 I have a plant I set out last year that I am planning on removing soon to make room for another mango tree. Unpruned it went from a 1 gal size to a 5 foot tall 14 foot wide lanky bush in a year. Fruit is similar to a blueberry but closest to an amelanchier. Flesh to seed ratio is about 50-50  Seeds are hard and about like the largest blackberry seeds. You would probably need a hundred foot hedge to get a usable amount of fruit as they seem to ripen a few at a time, unless you want it to feed local wildlife.
 I drive past both places every other week and could dig it up and have it pruned way back and in a pot 2 weeks from now too....Or available for you to come and dig it in Cape Coral...

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You will have hogs sooner or later. Last fall I saw a huge hairy black one freshly road-killed on the causeway. I was tempted to pick it up but it was gone 2 hours later... They are infesting the western part of Cape Coral already, as are coyotes.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: How early does the "Zill" mango ripen?
« on: February 14, 2017, 05:47:47 PM »
In the area around Pine Island and the Ft. Myers area near the water it seems the earliest local mangos I have found go up for sale about the last 10 days of May. In 2016 everything was later, the first I found were about June 10. I think my Dad picked his first mangos the first week of June, but the 2 years before that it was about May 15-20 for the first fruit,his were Carries picked a bit early.He is close to the river in North Ft. Myers.
 I don't know of any DuPuis trees in the area to even graft from.Good to know Lara at least has DuPuis,does anyone further North have them? Now that this thread is up the only Zill in my area is probably gone already, I might need to find one of those too. Duncan trees are scarce here too,the only ones I can find have been in their pots way too long.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: How early does the "Zill" mango ripen?
« on: February 14, 2017, 03:07:12 PM »
I agree that Glenn is very pleasant in a dry year. Last year neither it nor Valencia pride were really worth eating around here if you had to buy them. They were slightly better than a store bought Tommy...  I remember hearing DuPuis Saigon has some disease issues in wet humid areas but maybe I can get away with it being in a breezy area near the Gulf coast.No nursery near me carries it.
 Zill's issue with needing to be picked early might actually be a virtue in this situation. Zill could be perfect, considering that I want the fruit off the tree by the time other stuff comes in, assuming I can start eating them by mid May even if not quite at their peak (I prefer tart and slightly under ripe to washed out), and done by about the end of the first week of June. How early can Zill be picked in an average year? I don't mind spraying at times but I don't want to be a slave to it either.Maybe I can plant Zill AND Du Puis Saigon. Keitt and Cogshall ripen fruit without spraying near here,I can live with surface blemishes if a spray or two per tree can make the tree hold and keep the fruit edible.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / How early does the "Zill" mango ripen?
« on: February 14, 2017, 01:25:36 PM »
I am still undecided about an early season "workhorse" mango. I have recently planted an Edward, 2 Pickerings, a Cogshall , a Mun Kun Si, Fruit Punch, 2 Maha Chanoks , and have Peach Cobbler, Venus, Beverly, and Keitt as later season trees. I had a pot-bound Duncan that did not survive transplanting that needs to be replaced. I have a Lemon Meringue that has mostly just sat for 2 years in the ground that has one more year to at least flush some growth before I get rid of it. I will save a spot for Guava and one for Frances Hargrave. I will probably plant a Glenn as the early season workhorse unless Zill is a good alternative.If Glenn wasn't so washed out with all the rain last year, (Valencia Pride was a disappointment too last Summer) I would probably have planted one already.
I will probably get some fruit most years before June from my other trees, but I would like a tree that would flood me with mangos while the others are starting to trickle in.
 From the descriptions, Zill seems to be a decent enough mango if it can be done by mid June when the better stuff ripens in quantity.
 From scattered bits of information I gather that it produces well ,has a bit of pineapple flavor, and can ripen in May,June and possibly into July. Another source said it has a tendency to ripen all of its fruit within about a 3 week period.If it is freestone as one source says that would be a plus. It would be great if it could be all harvested by mid June.
 By then, some of the others I know we like will be producing enough to keep my ravenous family happy.
  Zill doesn't seem to be propagated much now with all the hype around the newer varieties but I found one tree available nearby. Some of the sweetest and best women aren't in the fanciest wrappers....Same with mangoes.Some of the best of both species don't get the love they deserve.. It is Valentine's day after all! Make your ladies happy today.... ;D
 Should I get a Glenn or the Zill? Or Florigon? My first Florigon died but I will try again if  advised to. It took 3 Keitt trees to get one well established...  I am on the Western edge of Cape Coral on the water less than a mile as the crow flies from Matlacha.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Training my mulberry
« on: February 05, 2017, 06:53:59 AM »
As a practical matter in the average yard, I think the best course of action is not planting a mulberry tree... If you really like them, try to bonsai it into a multi stemmed bush no higher than you can harvest fruit from, unless you don't mind it taking up a 30-40 foot circle as a low, spreading tree. I guess you could bonsai a smaller spreading tree somewhere in between those sizes too.
 I would use a general strategy of making pruning cuts a half inch above buds facing the direction you want the branches to grow, which will usually be downward or outward, unless you need to replace a branch and want it to grow up. Take out vertical shoots and head back others to horizontal buds or bend them downwards.
Making pruning cuts just above a downward facing bud in order to force horizontal or downward growth decreases vigor and promotes fruiting in almost all fruit trees, as does taking out the central vertical leader and giving the tree several spreading trunks rather than one tall one. Many fruit trees in general will bear fruit a couple years earlier too and bear heavier crops once mature if pruned this way.  No worries about mulberries, they fruit quickly.
 
  You could successfully keep it at ladder reachable harvesting height of about 12-15 feet or so but it will then be a low spreading tree that makes a mess on a wider area. Mulberry trees get big and a picking pole wont help like with some other fruits. You will need to prune often. Training a mulberry tree can be almost as much work as training a cat.... Well at least you can train a mulberry tree IF you are determined. I have a 15 year old mulberry tree at my farm in South Carolina that has been successfully kept at about 12-15 feet height and 40 foot spread. In recent years I have pruned it to a somewhat more compact spread.

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