51
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mangoes that refrigerate
« on: August 02, 2021, 02:15:48 PM »
Pickering and Little Gem both do relatively well in the fridge if close to fully ripe when placed there.
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52
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango varieties still hanging on the tree? Other tropic fruit in season
« on: August 02, 2021, 02:14:48 PM »
Surprised no one has mentioned Honey Kiss or Neelam. Have been considering planting one or both in my yard.
I have seen in variety descriptions that Neelam might hang until October some years and Honey Kiss into September, but no one has really posted any details like ripening dates,location,fruit quality and quantity on homeowner trees,etc...
While most mangoes get overripe if allowed to hang, a few hold well on the tree.
One other fruit that is ripening for me now is Makok sapodilla. Dwarf tree with good branching and short internodes. My tree is was planted as a 7 gal old. Fruit is much larger and better quality than in previous years. In previous years the fruit were small. They had a greeninsh color tinge inside and grassy aftertaste even when fully ripe, but this year the fruit is similar in taste and appearance to a large Silas Woods.
Happy to report Makok fruit quality is now excellent as the tree matures vs just OK on a young tree.
I have seen in variety descriptions that Neelam might hang until October some years and Honey Kiss into September, but no one has really posted any details like ripening dates,location,fruit quality and quantity on homeowner trees,etc...
While most mangoes get overripe if allowed to hang, a few hold well on the tree.
One other fruit that is ripening for me now is Makok sapodilla. Dwarf tree with good branching and short internodes. My tree is was planted as a 7 gal old. Fruit is much larger and better quality than in previous years. In previous years the fruit were small. They had a greeninsh color tinge inside and grassy aftertaste even when fully ripe, but this year the fruit is similar in taste and appearance to a large Silas Woods.
Happy to report Makok fruit quality is now excellent as the tree matures vs just OK on a young tree.
53
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best Mangos 2021
« on: July 28, 2021, 10:33:50 AM »
Little Gem is doing great as usual. Just started picking about 14 days ago, one or two of the ripest each day or so. Ate one yesterday that tasted a lot like a Graham . Close to a hundred fruit on the Little Gem tree this year. Ate my first and only Dwarf Hawaiian this morning and it tasted very similar to Little Gem but was smaller and had more fiber.
54
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best Mangos 2021
« on: July 28, 2021, 07:54:02 AM »
This is the second year that I had a crop on Cotton Candy. My tree was planted as a 3 gallon the first year they were available.
Last year I had 13 fruit, 11 of which ripened so unevenly that they were terrible, hard very unripe flesh on about 25 percent of each individual fruit,maybe 25 percent delicious,and overripe mango death on half of each fruit. The two perfect fruit were the best mangoes of the year last year. They had some MBSS and were done by the first week of July last year.
THIS YEAR, almost no MBSS, the crop was about 40 fruit, picked the first fruit about mid June,about 2 weeks later than last year. Still had uneven ripening on 80 percent of fruit, but not as bad as last year. Maybe 40 percent of the fruit had some uneven ripening but were fully edible and pretty good. About 20 percent were awesome.
That still leaves about 40 percent of the fruit that only had some edible portions. A small percentage of fruit cracked after heavy rains. I picked at various stages of ripening and still had uneven ripening issues no matter when they were picked. Tree is still holding about a half dozen fruit now on July 28th.
Wondering if the uneven ripening will improve as the tree ages or if I should top work the tree this year. Two years in a row it has been on my best AND worst list.....
Last year I had 13 fruit, 11 of which ripened so unevenly that they were terrible, hard very unripe flesh on about 25 percent of each individual fruit,maybe 25 percent delicious,and overripe mango death on half of each fruit. The two perfect fruit were the best mangoes of the year last year. They had some MBSS and were done by the first week of July last year.
THIS YEAR, almost no MBSS, the crop was about 40 fruit, picked the first fruit about mid June,about 2 weeks later than last year. Still had uneven ripening on 80 percent of fruit, but not as bad as last year. Maybe 40 percent of the fruit had some uneven ripening but were fully edible and pretty good. About 20 percent were awesome.
That still leaves about 40 percent of the fruit that only had some edible portions. A small percentage of fruit cracked after heavy rains. I picked at various stages of ripening and still had uneven ripening issues no matter when they were picked. Tree is still holding about a half dozen fruit now on July 28th.
Wondering if the uneven ripening will improve as the tree ages or if I should top work the tree this year. Two years in a row it has been on my best AND worst list.....
55
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Searching for fruits in SW FL
« on: July 20, 2021, 02:36:39 PM »
Pine Island is the largest island in Florida BTW.....
56
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Little Gem doesn't seem so little
« on: July 11, 2021, 08:04:42 PM »
The longer Little Gem hangs on the tree, the better it seems to get in SW Florida. It will get semisoft on the tree but will drop or come off easily at about that point. Letting it sit a few days past that until you get a good aroma and it will reach its peak.
A lot of other varieties do have a tendency to develop off flavors or the seed will sprout when you let the fruit hang too long. So far for me I have only had one Little Gem seed sprout while hanging even into September. Little Gem is great even if it might seem overripe by ordinary standards.
A lot of other varieties do have a tendency to develop off flavors or the seed will sprout when you let the fruit hang too long. So far for me I have only had one Little Gem seed sprout while hanging even into September. Little Gem is great even if it might seem overripe by ordinary standards.
57
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Apples in hot, humid climates
« on: June 22, 2021, 01:38:10 PM »
I found varieties with much better quality than the standard low chill apples and mentioned a few earlier in the thread. Might be easier to grow some of them in Vegas than in SC due to less fungal pressure. Try topworking a few branches if you have trees in the ground.
58
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Apples in hot, humid climates
« on: June 22, 2021, 01:24:54 PM »
None of the standard Low chill apples did well on the South Carolina coastal plain. Sooty blotch and flyspeck are pretty much a given in the southern US. Limbertwigs didn't like the coastal plain much .
As far as rot, I mean real rot, like from nothing to unusable in a day or two. Like anthracnose on a mango but even faster to spoil the fruit. Black rot , white rot, bitter rot. Some varieties could be partially salvaged for pies,etc. Crabapples did poorly too and when they rot there is nothing to salvage. Bramley's was intended to be grown as a cooking apple but was a fine dessert apple in that climate. Several russet varieties were excellent and more tolerant to rot.
Thai jujubes are a decent substitute for a bland store bought Granny Smith. Great texture and pleasant but very little flavor and only slightly sweet. I actually prefer them to a Granny Smith.
Granny Smith apple did not do well but it seedling Reverend Morgan from the Houston area was a very good fruit. One of the better choices.
Black limbertwig fruited but the bears always got to the fruit before me.
Apple breeding programs should focus on heat tolerance, disease resistance and fruit quality to be ready for a warmer world. If you market varieties with a short shelf life in season locally, they will sell out. Commodity apples suck as a general rule.
As far as rot, I mean real rot, like from nothing to unusable in a day or two. Like anthracnose on a mango but even faster to spoil the fruit. Black rot , white rot, bitter rot. Some varieties could be partially salvaged for pies,etc. Crabapples did poorly too and when they rot there is nothing to salvage. Bramley's was intended to be grown as a cooking apple but was a fine dessert apple in that climate. Several russet varieties were excellent and more tolerant to rot.
Thai jujubes are a decent substitute for a bland store bought Granny Smith. Great texture and pleasant but very little flavor and only slightly sweet. I actually prefer them to a Granny Smith.
Granny Smith apple did not do well but it seedling Reverend Morgan from the Houston area was a very good fruit. One of the better choices.
Black limbertwig fruited but the bears always got to the fruit before me.
Apple breeding programs should focus on heat tolerance, disease resistance and fruit quality to be ready for a warmer world. If you market varieties with a short shelf life in season locally, they will sell out. Commodity apples suck as a general rule.
59
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Apples in hot, humid climates
« on: June 22, 2021, 07:51:24 AM »
There was a recent post on apples in Florida, I figured the topic deserves its own thread for those in similar climates. I do not think the Dorsett Golden and Anna are any good.
I grew apples for nearly 20 years on the coastal Plain of South Carolina. Lots of heat, humidity and fungal pressure, actually worse than my present location in Cape Coral.
Summers there were sweltering with little air movement. Hard to think of a more hostile place to grow apples.
I spent a couple years researching any and all apple varieties known to tolerate heat and humidity. I tried to grow well over 100 varieties, fruiting about 25 or so more than once. Dorsett Golden and Anna were both garbage, the fruit could not take the heat and humidity. Most apple trees themselves grew fine but not the fruit. I found that tolerance to heat, humidity, and fungal rots were much more important than chill hours. In the nearly 20 years I was there, chill hours ranged from about 450 to 850 at my farm in St. George, SC. On the plus side, the only insect pest was the plum curculio which only caused cosmetic damage.
Apples can be grown at altitude in the tropics if they are defoliated with urea after cropping, that stimulates bloom. I attended a lecture at a fruit growers meeting in one of the Gulf coast states given by someone growing them.(red delicious) He grew them in the South Pacific at 5000-7000 feet of altitude not far from the equator. That is not a low chill cultivar and is the apple equivalent of a Tommy Atkins mango.
I found that lack of chill extends bloom periods. This means drought followed by rain can stimulate bloom. Sometimes a period of cooler weather during the Summer/Fall can also do this. Mangos can sometimes throw a few off season bloom too, this is not unique to apples. Some apples bloomed several times a year. You might never get a full bloom if chill is insufficient, but you will still probably get some fruit. One variety, Carolina Red June, even sometimes matured 2 crops in a year.( fruit was small, mediocre and mealy, don't plant it.)
Extended and inconsistent bloom is bad for commercial growers on spray schedules, but not an issue for home growers. Most of the low chill varieties I tried never completely defoliated in Winter unless we had a really hard freeze below about 15 degrees F.
Aside from fungal rots, internal breakdown is a major problem for most apples ripening in hot weather. Several varieties fruited fairly well but had mealy texture. William's Pride had bad breakdown. The only mealy apple that tasted pretty good despite the texture was Arkcharm. The only mealy apples I ever actually enjoyed eating.
The other problems on varieties that can fruit in hot climates are bitter pit and watercore. If you ever ate a bitter but otherwise beautiful Braeburn apple, it had bitter pit.
Water core is actually a treat for home grower. It is actually clear circular areas of flesh up to about quarter size that are SUPER sweet, brix off the charts. It shortens shelf life a lot, so that pretty much eliminates many varieties from large scale commercial consideration.
I grew the best Gala apples ever for a year or two but that variety needs CONSTANT spraying or the fruit will rot. Even then, I lost a lot. I gave up on it, be warned... That variety ticks off all the boxes except for its extreme susceptibility to rotting. Would probably grow great in a desert, it can take triple digits while ripening without breakdown. Water core, yes, but fruit was not mealy.
Pink Lady is one of my favorite apples to eat and the only one I actually buy at the stores. It was nearly a perfect tree and was low chill but rarely held more than a few fruit to maturity despite plenty of pollen. The few fruit that were held, never sized well. It ticked off almost all of the boxes except for productivity. Fuji was unproductive as well as susceptible to rot and bitter pit.
One surprise was Bramley's seedling. It was one of the heathiest trees. Great Britain's best cooking apple, but very acidic and not eaten out of hand there. When I grew it, it had a nearly perfect sugar-acid balance. I bet the brix was close to 20. It was intensely sweet and subacid. An Englishman would probably drop dead of shock eating one like that. I am sure it never ever attained that level of quality in the British Isles. I do wonder how it would perform in Australia if anyone can chime in on that. The tree itself is triploid and seemed immune to fungal problems. Fruit needed minimal spraying since it was late maturity. My goat herd killed that tree when they got into the orchard so I only fruited it twice.
Pristine was also a big surprise. Small, Golden Delicious type. Extended bloom period and very disease resistant. At my farm it started ripening July 4th and season was over a month long. One year it reached 100 degrees F at my farm almost every day for the entire ripening period. A very nice apple, there was some watercore but the fruit was crisp despite the extreme temperatures. Sometimes had partial bloom later in Summer but did not mature 2 crops.
One benefit of high temperatures in apples that can ripen fruit without breakdown is that brix can be off the charts. Most commercial apples are lucky to hit the mid teens, but a lot of apples I grew were over 20 most years.
For a large Golden type, I would recommend trying Ozark Gold. Eating a huge one with water core was a real treat. I tried a bunch of California apples, none of them really did well.
One class of apples that did well are Russets. American Golden Russet did the least well of that class but was still a high quality fruit. Any of them are worth a trial. Hudson's Golden Gem and Brown Russet were very nice and were August to early September apples at that location.
I tried a bunch of Japanese varieties, most took the heat but had high susceptibility to rots. You might not be able to grow apples as a commodity in a subtropical/ tropical climate, but if you are determined and pick the right varieties, you can probably grow some of your own apples. I had planned a pick your own/roadside market and would have been successful if the black bears would have gone away. They were protected and the wildlife people did not designate a bear as a problem for relocation or removal unless it was out and about causing trouble during the daytime. Even one bear can do a lot of damage.
I would try to root a very disease resistant variety in a stooling bed to use as rootstock if I were to start over.
I grew apples for nearly 20 years on the coastal Plain of South Carolina. Lots of heat, humidity and fungal pressure, actually worse than my present location in Cape Coral.
Summers there were sweltering with little air movement. Hard to think of a more hostile place to grow apples.
I spent a couple years researching any and all apple varieties known to tolerate heat and humidity. I tried to grow well over 100 varieties, fruiting about 25 or so more than once. Dorsett Golden and Anna were both garbage, the fruit could not take the heat and humidity. Most apple trees themselves grew fine but not the fruit. I found that tolerance to heat, humidity, and fungal rots were much more important than chill hours. In the nearly 20 years I was there, chill hours ranged from about 450 to 850 at my farm in St. George, SC. On the plus side, the only insect pest was the plum curculio which only caused cosmetic damage.
Apples can be grown at altitude in the tropics if they are defoliated with urea after cropping, that stimulates bloom. I attended a lecture at a fruit growers meeting in one of the Gulf coast states given by someone growing them.(red delicious) He grew them in the South Pacific at 5000-7000 feet of altitude not far from the equator. That is not a low chill cultivar and is the apple equivalent of a Tommy Atkins mango.
I found that lack of chill extends bloom periods. This means drought followed by rain can stimulate bloom. Sometimes a period of cooler weather during the Summer/Fall can also do this. Mangos can sometimes throw a few off season bloom too, this is not unique to apples. Some apples bloomed several times a year. You might never get a full bloom if chill is insufficient, but you will still probably get some fruit. One variety, Carolina Red June, even sometimes matured 2 crops in a year.( fruit was small, mediocre and mealy, don't plant it.)
Extended and inconsistent bloom is bad for commercial growers on spray schedules, but not an issue for home growers. Most of the low chill varieties I tried never completely defoliated in Winter unless we had a really hard freeze below about 15 degrees F.
Aside from fungal rots, internal breakdown is a major problem for most apples ripening in hot weather. Several varieties fruited fairly well but had mealy texture. William's Pride had bad breakdown. The only mealy apple that tasted pretty good despite the texture was Arkcharm. The only mealy apples I ever actually enjoyed eating.
The other problems on varieties that can fruit in hot climates are bitter pit and watercore. If you ever ate a bitter but otherwise beautiful Braeburn apple, it had bitter pit.
Water core is actually a treat for home grower. It is actually clear circular areas of flesh up to about quarter size that are SUPER sweet, brix off the charts. It shortens shelf life a lot, so that pretty much eliminates many varieties from large scale commercial consideration.
I grew the best Gala apples ever for a year or two but that variety needs CONSTANT spraying or the fruit will rot. Even then, I lost a lot. I gave up on it, be warned... That variety ticks off all the boxes except for its extreme susceptibility to rotting. Would probably grow great in a desert, it can take triple digits while ripening without breakdown. Water core, yes, but fruit was not mealy.
Pink Lady is one of my favorite apples to eat and the only one I actually buy at the stores. It was nearly a perfect tree and was low chill but rarely held more than a few fruit to maturity despite plenty of pollen. The few fruit that were held, never sized well. It ticked off almost all of the boxes except for productivity. Fuji was unproductive as well as susceptible to rot and bitter pit.
One surprise was Bramley's seedling. It was one of the heathiest trees. Great Britain's best cooking apple, but very acidic and not eaten out of hand there. When I grew it, it had a nearly perfect sugar-acid balance. I bet the brix was close to 20. It was intensely sweet and subacid. An Englishman would probably drop dead of shock eating one like that. I am sure it never ever attained that level of quality in the British Isles. I do wonder how it would perform in Australia if anyone can chime in on that. The tree itself is triploid and seemed immune to fungal problems. Fruit needed minimal spraying since it was late maturity. My goat herd killed that tree when they got into the orchard so I only fruited it twice.
Pristine was also a big surprise. Small, Golden Delicious type. Extended bloom period and very disease resistant. At my farm it started ripening July 4th and season was over a month long. One year it reached 100 degrees F at my farm almost every day for the entire ripening period. A very nice apple, there was some watercore but the fruit was crisp despite the extreme temperatures. Sometimes had partial bloom later in Summer but did not mature 2 crops.
One benefit of high temperatures in apples that can ripen fruit without breakdown is that brix can be off the charts. Most commercial apples are lucky to hit the mid teens, but a lot of apples I grew were over 20 most years.
For a large Golden type, I would recommend trying Ozark Gold. Eating a huge one with water core was a real treat. I tried a bunch of California apples, none of them really did well.
One class of apples that did well are Russets. American Golden Russet did the least well of that class but was still a high quality fruit. Any of them are worth a trial. Hudson's Golden Gem and Brown Russet were very nice and were August to early September apples at that location.
I tried a bunch of Japanese varieties, most took the heat but had high susceptibility to rots. You might not be able to grow apples as a commodity in a subtropical/ tropical climate, but if you are determined and pick the right varieties, you can probably grow some of your own apples. I had planned a pick your own/roadside market and would have been successful if the black bears would have gone away. They were protected and the wildlife people did not designate a bear as a problem for relocation or removal unless it was out and about causing trouble during the daytime. Even one bear can do a lot of damage.
I would try to root a very disease resistant variety in a stooling bed to use as rootstock if I were to start over.
60
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Bottom tier mangos. Don't plant these.
« on: June 12, 2021, 11:03:18 AM »
Haden can actually be a very good fruit, but the tree and its disease susceptibility make it bottom tier as far as actually growing them. Some of its many descendants are much better overall.
61
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jackfruit - laying down on the job
« on: June 12, 2021, 10:55:15 AM »
Put a stepping stone or a scrap piece of wood underneath it where it contacts the ground.
62
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Late(r) Season Mango Question
« on: June 12, 2021, 10:38:18 AM »
Little Gem blooms later than most varieties which is a plus if you are in an area that can get frost, has short internodes, clean attractive fruit, very strong branches, precocious, productive, and a very compact growth habit. It ticks off all your boxes. Picked last fruit September 10th last year. Eaten at the right stage of ripeness it has that WOW factor too...
I am wondering what is the latest date anyone has picked Cotton Candy? Last year it was the first week of July. Single best mango I ate last year was one of those.
I am wondering what is the latest date anyone has picked Cotton Candy? Last year it was the first week of July. Single best mango I ate last year was one of those.
63
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Varieties underperforming and overperforming this year due to dry conditions etc
« on: June 11, 2021, 09:23:33 AM »
Almost no rain here this past Winter and Spring. We finally got some good rains this week.
While the drought has caused a few fruit to ripen prematurely, the main crops on most trees in my yard seem a few weeks behind normal.
Edgar is producing much smaller fruit this year but held a good crop despite heavy pruning last year. In previous years we were eating it about 3-4 weeks earlier. Best picking time for this mango seems to be at the first signs of yellowing at the stem end.(and finishing the ripening off the tree for several days)
Fruit held longer on the tree was not quite as good, the fruit can develop off flavors if overripe. This is definitely a variety to pick at or near mature green instead of tree ripe.
Maha Chanok is a month earlier than last year. We ate one today that had a fruit cocktail taste. Last year it had a very good classical mango flavor. Flavor on this mango can vary from year to year but it consistently very good. It seems to increase in complexity every year so far. Or maybe the drought is just getting worse every year, heat and drought can advance ripening and increase brix.
Pickering is actually a few weeks behind, just starting to eat a few.
Last year Maha came in as Pickering finished, this year they are neck and neck unfortunately. They will all get eaten but I might have to raid my Dad's Valencia pride in a month to avoid picking my Little Gems early.
Cotton Candy looks like it is a few weeks behind last years ripening, which is a good thing. Will start picking them in about a week or so I guess. They were done by early July last year.
Strange that some varieties are later and others earlier than usual. I expected all varieties to ripen sooner from the drought, but some actually will ripen later.
While the drought has caused a few fruit to ripen prematurely, the main crops on most trees in my yard seem a few weeks behind normal.
Edgar is producing much smaller fruit this year but held a good crop despite heavy pruning last year. In previous years we were eating it about 3-4 weeks earlier. Best picking time for this mango seems to be at the first signs of yellowing at the stem end.(and finishing the ripening off the tree for several days)
Fruit held longer on the tree was not quite as good, the fruit can develop off flavors if overripe. This is definitely a variety to pick at or near mature green instead of tree ripe.
Maha Chanok is a month earlier than last year. We ate one today that had a fruit cocktail taste. Last year it had a very good classical mango flavor. Flavor on this mango can vary from year to year but it consistently very good. It seems to increase in complexity every year so far. Or maybe the drought is just getting worse every year, heat and drought can advance ripening and increase brix.
Pickering is actually a few weeks behind, just starting to eat a few.
Last year Maha came in as Pickering finished, this year they are neck and neck unfortunately. They will all get eaten but I might have to raid my Dad's Valencia pride in a month to avoid picking my Little Gems early.
Cotton Candy looks like it is a few weeks behind last years ripening, which is a good thing. Will start picking them in about a week or so I guess. They were done by early July last year.
Strange that some varieties are later and others earlier than usual. I expected all varieties to ripen sooner from the drought, but some actually will ripen later.
64
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Avocado 24/7 Thread
« on: June 08, 2021, 08:06:46 AM »
I got a small Ronnie tree from Lara Farms a few weeks ago.
Julian finally got budwood from tree owner after many years of trying and propagated some trees.
Fruit ripens Feb-April in South Florida.
Julian finally got budwood from tree owner after many years of trying and propagated some trees.
Fruit ripens Feb-April in South Florida.
65
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Your watermelon preference --seeded or seedless?
« on: June 08, 2021, 07:59:41 AM »
Seeded have better flavor by far.
Seedless are not really seedless, the seeds are just softer AND harder to remove. When you bite into them it changes the flavor. I don't like the cucumber like flavor notes the seeds add to a watermelon.
Most of us have been cutting watermelons wrong our whole lives. If you cut a seeded watermelon properly, it can essentially be seedless.
1. Lay the watermelon on its side and cut off the ends.
2. Cut remainder of watermelon into 2-4 thick slices shaped like a round cake that will pretty much fill up a plate.
3 Cut thin wedges downwards radiating out from the middle about 1/2 to 2/3 inch thick as if you were cutting a round cake.
The knife will do most of the seeding as you cut, the majority of the rest will be exposed on the edges of the slice and can be removed just by rubbing the knife along the sides of the cut wedge. Adjust thickness of wedges based on size of watermelon to get uniformly seedless slices.
I get the better flavor and ability to take big bites out of a seedless but thin wedge of fruit.
Seedless are not really seedless, the seeds are just softer AND harder to remove. When you bite into them it changes the flavor. I don't like the cucumber like flavor notes the seeds add to a watermelon.
Most of us have been cutting watermelons wrong our whole lives. If you cut a seeded watermelon properly, it can essentially be seedless.
1. Lay the watermelon on its side and cut off the ends.
2. Cut remainder of watermelon into 2-4 thick slices shaped like a round cake that will pretty much fill up a plate.
3 Cut thin wedges downwards radiating out from the middle about 1/2 to 2/3 inch thick as if you were cutting a round cake.
The knife will do most of the seeding as you cut, the majority of the rest will be exposed on the edges of the slice and can be removed just by rubbing the knife along the sides of the cut wedge. Adjust thickness of wedges based on size of watermelon to get uniformly seedless slices.
I get the better flavor and ability to take big bites out of a seedless but thin wedge of fruit.
66
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Carrie flavor alternative
« on: May 16, 2021, 11:27:56 AM »
You already have a Carrie alternative. If you pick Little Gem early and ripen off the tree it can have a flavor like Carrie with a firmer texture. I don't pick them early on purpose but if I knock one off the tree by accident starting about July 7 it will be similar to Carrie about a week to 10 days after coming off the tree. Your location may be a week or so behind, so try ripening any early drops to experiment.
67
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Top ten tree mango list
« on: April 07, 2021, 07:31:27 PM »
Even then, Pickering is better if finished off the tree a few days before eating...
68
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: WTB Barbados Cherry Manoa Sweet or Florida Sweet
« on: April 02, 2021, 10:50:51 PM »
I got my Manoa Sweet from Vintage green farms (sold out at the moment)They mostly have nice ornamentals but have a few edible plants . My order was airmailed and arrived quickly and in great shape. It grew about 4 feet last year but has not fruited yet. I got a red Surinam cherry from them too (also currently sold out) I found another variety online that I haven't bought yet called Siam sweet. I haven't been able to find any more info about that one online.
https://www.triontechg.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=776761
I also have Echo sweet and Florida Sweet. I plan on rooting some cuttings soon of both species of cherry.
https://www.triontechg.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=776761
I also have Echo sweet and Florida Sweet. I plan on rooting some cuttings soon of both species of cherry.
69
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: I let 3gal mango trees bear fruit and then this happened
« on: March 30, 2021, 10:03:39 AM »
I would prune out all the main branches that are below a 45 degree angle on those trees.
Some mango varieties have stronger trunks and branches at a given diameter than others. As a general rule I agree with Rob about not letting young trees fruit heavily if at all, especially for beginners. Unless you want fruit dragging on the ground and losing most of those or are 80 years old, you need to make sure the tree can set and hold the fruit at an appropriate height WITHOUT compromising the future structure of the tree. If you are really zone pushing and need to cover the tree completely during Winter, early fruiting with fruit dragging near the ground may be desirable.
If the tree holding fruit will get completely blown over or be in danger of snapping in wind, it is not strong enough yet. If the trunk and branches feel solid, I will let it hold some fruit.
My Edgar had branches bent so much by fruit that I had to prune to replace/retrain some main scaffold branches. This variety had what I would call normal mango branching habit, mostly upward with some spread. After letting it fruit too heavily in early years, one main scaffold branch was about 5 degrees downwards and fruit were touching the ground. That exact branch was at about 15 degrees UPWARD slope before fruiting that year. The year before, the slope was about 30. If I had let it hold a couple fruit instead of 20 on that scaffold branch, it may have been OK.
That is how I came up with my 45 degree rule. It is good to limit ultimate tree height with easy management, early fruiting, and eye appeal of the tree. My rule of thumb is that if the weight of a fruit or fruits on a young tree's branch will bend the MAIN branch below about a 45 degree angle, don't let it fruit. As long as smaller side branches on the main scaffold won't bend the main branch too much,the smaller fruiting branches can be allowed to fruit even if hanging down and be cut off after fruiting. It is not an absolute but an approximation. Maybe let it set one or a couple on its first fruiting IF the branches will support the weight without being bent below 45 degrees. The next couple years let it fruit heavier but don't let the weight of fruit bend branches much below about 45 degrees. The main branches will bend more down with fruit loads in future years, it you start with 45 the first few years you might end up with 40 or less in a few years. 30-35 degrees from horizontal will keep the tree smaller in height but more spreading than 45.
I should have let it fruit less heavily in its first years and thinned out most of what set. Pickering also had to have a few of the lowest branches removed but it seemed to have stronger branches so it was less severe. Some varieties have weak and spindly branches and those should be allowed several years to develop stronger branches to hold a fruit load.
Early fruiting will de- vigorate a tree,and this can be a very good thing. Richard Campbell had a few videos in which he said he let trees fruit early so they produce more fruit and less canopy. If done correctly, you get a dwarfing effect from main scaffold branches in competition. That means the main trunk splits into several but none of them really win out to grow tall. The fruit will weigh them down and keep the main branches from getting too tall.
My Little Gem tree seemed to naturally have a good balance. It was well anchored ,has strong branches and letting it produce as much fruit as it could hold at an early age let the main scaffold branches bend down to good angles with very little pruning needed.
Some mango varieties have stronger trunks and branches at a given diameter than others. As a general rule I agree with Rob about not letting young trees fruit heavily if at all, especially for beginners. Unless you want fruit dragging on the ground and losing most of those or are 80 years old, you need to make sure the tree can set and hold the fruit at an appropriate height WITHOUT compromising the future structure of the tree. If you are really zone pushing and need to cover the tree completely during Winter, early fruiting with fruit dragging near the ground may be desirable.
If the tree holding fruit will get completely blown over or be in danger of snapping in wind, it is not strong enough yet. If the trunk and branches feel solid, I will let it hold some fruit.
My Edgar had branches bent so much by fruit that I had to prune to replace/retrain some main scaffold branches. This variety had what I would call normal mango branching habit, mostly upward with some spread. After letting it fruit too heavily in early years, one main scaffold branch was about 5 degrees downwards and fruit were touching the ground. That exact branch was at about 15 degrees UPWARD slope before fruiting that year. The year before, the slope was about 30. If I had let it hold a couple fruit instead of 20 on that scaffold branch, it may have been OK.
That is how I came up with my 45 degree rule. It is good to limit ultimate tree height with easy management, early fruiting, and eye appeal of the tree. My rule of thumb is that if the weight of a fruit or fruits on a young tree's branch will bend the MAIN branch below about a 45 degree angle, don't let it fruit. As long as smaller side branches on the main scaffold won't bend the main branch too much,the smaller fruiting branches can be allowed to fruit even if hanging down and be cut off after fruiting. It is not an absolute but an approximation. Maybe let it set one or a couple on its first fruiting IF the branches will support the weight without being bent below 45 degrees. The next couple years let it fruit heavier but don't let the weight of fruit bend branches much below about 45 degrees. The main branches will bend more down with fruit loads in future years, it you start with 45 the first few years you might end up with 40 or less in a few years. 30-35 degrees from horizontal will keep the tree smaller in height but more spreading than 45.
I should have let it fruit less heavily in its first years and thinned out most of what set. Pickering also had to have a few of the lowest branches removed but it seemed to have stronger branches so it was less severe. Some varieties have weak and spindly branches and those should be allowed several years to develop stronger branches to hold a fruit load.
Early fruiting will de- vigorate a tree,and this can be a very good thing. Richard Campbell had a few videos in which he said he let trees fruit early so they produce more fruit and less canopy. If done correctly, you get a dwarfing effect from main scaffold branches in competition. That means the main trunk splits into several but none of them really win out to grow tall. The fruit will weigh them down and keep the main branches from getting too tall.
My Little Gem tree seemed to naturally have a good balance. It was well anchored ,has strong branches and letting it produce as much fruit as it could hold at an early age let the main scaffold branches bend down to good angles with very little pruning needed.
70
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: low chill apples
« on: March 23, 2021, 12:27:45 AM »
I was determined to grow apples on the South Carolina coastal plain despite the experts saying it was impossible. in retrospect, this was true from a commercial perspective but if the black bears had left my fruit alone and I had time for some spraying, I might have made a modest profit. Each bear can eat literally bushels in a day. Deer, birds, possums, raccoons, and even coyotes got their share. I try to forget the times the goats and cattle broke in to the orchard...
I scoured nursery catalogs when the net was in its infancy for the general public. I read descriptions of thousands of varieties in real books. One of the most interesting and inspirational was Old Southern Apples by Creighton Lee Calhoun. I made apple pilgrimages to his place and to university experimental apple orchards in places like central Alabama. I found apples that originated in areas like Houston. I had a double filing cabinet full of catalogs and letters from people I wrote to on REAL PAPER. One of the big fruit nurseries was on what is now the Masters golf course in Augusta, Ga. Hunting down scionwood of old almost forgotten varieties was a lot of work, I even found 2 trees near Shulerville,SC that had been in production since the civil war according to the late Eulice Lewis, the property owner. They were the best two trees of the seedling orchard trees that had been planted by the family. Several generations of trunks aged and died and were replaced by suckers. He had some interesting stories. I collected and experimented with about 150 apple varieties in total that were said to either originate in hot climates or had excellent disease resistance.
Chill hours are more important for commercial vs home growers. Commercial growers want uniform bloom and ripening. Insufficient chill spreads the bloom out over a longer period of time. Sometimes you can even get multiple crops in a year. I had this happen on Carolina Red June, one year it bloomed midsummer after rains followed drought, but the apple was mediocre and mealy on both crops. Many of my trees near Charleston,SC only partially defoliated every Winter. I got between 450-800 chill hours at my farm during the years I lived there. Anna , Dorset Gold, and Ein Shemer all fruited poorly though the trees grew well. Some higher chill apples did fine with much less chill than published numbers. Several varieties regularly bloomed for an extended period during the Fall and Winter and might have matured those crops in an area like Central Florida that doesn't get hard freezes.
I have heard of Red Delicious(not a low chill apple) being grown at altitude in the tropics. There was a speaker at a Nafex meeting 20-25 years ago that talked about how he did it. Trees had to be defoliated to stimulate bloom either manually or with urea foliar sprays IIRC.
The most important factors are disease resistance and tolerance of the tree and the fruit to heat, drought, and humidity. for example ARK Charm grew and fruited well but the fruit was very mealy. Ironically it was the only good tasting mealy apple I ever ate. Gala grew and fruited well with high quality IF and only if it was CONSTANTLY sprayed. Heat did not bother it at all. Still crisp and juicy with sugar levels higher than in commercial areas. I gave up on it because it would rot in a heartbeat. Pink lady grew great but was such a shy bearer, the fruit was hard and small. A lot of varieties developed water core, which is a defect commercially but a treat to home growers. Super sweet translucent areas in the flesh sometimes as much as 25 percent of the apple.
One early yellow apple began ripening about beginning of July and had a month long season. One year it reached 100 degrees on my farm nearly every day in July and the apples of that variety were still crisp and awesome.
Will post more soon about which ones I would try if I were determined to grow them in South Florida. I found an obscure reference in English to 2 varieties that were formerly grown in the highlands of Cuba but have lost the names. Will post more sometime the next few days but need to sleep... I will give a list of varieties to try that should be available from commercial nurseries.
I scoured nursery catalogs when the net was in its infancy for the general public. I read descriptions of thousands of varieties in real books. One of the most interesting and inspirational was Old Southern Apples by Creighton Lee Calhoun. I made apple pilgrimages to his place and to university experimental apple orchards in places like central Alabama. I found apples that originated in areas like Houston. I had a double filing cabinet full of catalogs and letters from people I wrote to on REAL PAPER. One of the big fruit nurseries was on what is now the Masters golf course in Augusta, Ga. Hunting down scionwood of old almost forgotten varieties was a lot of work, I even found 2 trees near Shulerville,SC that had been in production since the civil war according to the late Eulice Lewis, the property owner. They were the best two trees of the seedling orchard trees that had been planted by the family. Several generations of trunks aged and died and were replaced by suckers. He had some interesting stories. I collected and experimented with about 150 apple varieties in total that were said to either originate in hot climates or had excellent disease resistance.
Chill hours are more important for commercial vs home growers. Commercial growers want uniform bloom and ripening. Insufficient chill spreads the bloom out over a longer period of time. Sometimes you can even get multiple crops in a year. I had this happen on Carolina Red June, one year it bloomed midsummer after rains followed drought, but the apple was mediocre and mealy on both crops. Many of my trees near Charleston,SC only partially defoliated every Winter. I got between 450-800 chill hours at my farm during the years I lived there. Anna , Dorset Gold, and Ein Shemer all fruited poorly though the trees grew well. Some higher chill apples did fine with much less chill than published numbers. Several varieties regularly bloomed for an extended period during the Fall and Winter and might have matured those crops in an area like Central Florida that doesn't get hard freezes.
I have heard of Red Delicious(not a low chill apple) being grown at altitude in the tropics. There was a speaker at a Nafex meeting 20-25 years ago that talked about how he did it. Trees had to be defoliated to stimulate bloom either manually or with urea foliar sprays IIRC.
The most important factors are disease resistance and tolerance of the tree and the fruit to heat, drought, and humidity. for example ARK Charm grew and fruited well but the fruit was very mealy. Ironically it was the only good tasting mealy apple I ever ate. Gala grew and fruited well with high quality IF and only if it was CONSTANTLY sprayed. Heat did not bother it at all. Still crisp and juicy with sugar levels higher than in commercial areas. I gave up on it because it would rot in a heartbeat. Pink lady grew great but was such a shy bearer, the fruit was hard and small. A lot of varieties developed water core, which is a defect commercially but a treat to home growers. Super sweet translucent areas in the flesh sometimes as much as 25 percent of the apple.
One early yellow apple began ripening about beginning of July and had a month long season. One year it reached 100 degrees on my farm nearly every day in July and the apples of that variety were still crisp and awesome.
Will post more soon about which ones I would try if I were determined to grow them in South Florida. I found an obscure reference in English to 2 varieties that were formerly grown in the highlands of Cuba but have lost the names. Will post more sometime the next few days but need to sleep... I will give a list of varieties to try that should be available from commercial nurseries.
71
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Top ten tree mango list
« on: March 17, 2021, 06:14:58 AM »Edgar is very precocious and productive and this will help limit the size of the tree. I actually had to let new higher scaffold branches grow after the fruit was gone since they were so weighted down with fruit last year they were bent downwards. I had to cut them off and let it regrow some more vertically oriented branches. Setting fruit on the new upper scaffolds now. Looks like it will be an easily managed tree.
@TonyinCC, how far off the ground are you talking about (both the first set of scaffolds and the second)?
Here is a pic from yesterday. The lowest branch had to come completely off and is almost healed over. You can see the lowest current scaffold is close to horizontal coming off the trunk. I will probably remove it later this year. The tree will hold a lot of fruit early on but the branches just can't handle it. I would advise thinning fruit to keep branches from bending TOO much in the early years. For comparison, Edgar had a structure like the Cotton Candy tree in the background before last year's crop, Edgar must have had about 50 fruit. Cotton Candy set its first crop last year of 13 fruit and looks like it would hold 50 this year but I will thin that one this year if nature doesn't.
72
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Maki Mavi avocado any info?
« on: March 17, 2021, 05:49:55 AM »
Saw some small trees for sale at Fruitscapes yesterday but couldn't get info on its season or characteristics. Has anyone heard of it?
73
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Top ten tree mango list
« on: March 12, 2021, 10:26:55 AM »
Kent fruit quality is very good if you still have a producing tree. Until recently it was one of the standard later season varieties to plant. That said, a lot of the newer Zill varieties and other varieties new to Florida have amazing taste. Some of those trees have fruit to die for but people can have issues growing them successfully at the present time with MBBS looming... The good news is older susceptible trees can be topworked with varieties that show resistance thanks to information from this forum. We need a sticky thread on MBBS susceptibility reports so we can collectively get information faster. Maybe a sticky thread on top 10 MBBS tolerant varieties too? So far the most practical treatment is variety choice and/or top working trees, but there is limited info on tolerant/resistant varieties. Alex seems to have the most info in one place on his website in his mango variety descriptions.
74
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Top ten tree mango list
« on: March 11, 2021, 10:15:44 PM »
Weiss, I hope those experienced forum members and others chime in with some opinions if they have time.
A practical top 10 mango list to maximize taste,productivity,variety of flavor profiles,ease of care including disease resistance and pruning needs, and to maximize length of mango season with 10 or less trees. (and choices for a top 2 or 3 or 5 sub-list from the list for people with less space.
Part of the problem is that many trees that are able to produce outstanding fruit may not do so consistently for the average homeowner due to a number of issues including disease. Another is that people with room for 3 or 4 trees plant varieties that all ripen at the same time instead of picking the right set of trees that will extend their season to as long as 4-6 months instead of 4-6 weeks or less. If your top 3 favorites ripen at the same time, make a cocktail tree of those varieties with help from the forum and plant 2 other varieties to extend your season.
Believe me, I understand the excitement of tasting an amazing mango of a new variety and wanting to grow it.
I planted many that failed and have several now that I am not optimistic about. Some, like Little Gem exceeded my expectations and hopes in a short amount of time. This thread isn't about the 10 absolute best tasting mango fruit, but rather a list of suggestions and comments about trees that deserve space for consideration in a small collection for homeowners. I don't spray my trees and this Summer will be my first with irrigation. Survival of the fittest and of those the best tasting and productive varieties over the longest possible season earn a place in my yard. I also want to cover as many flavor profiles as possible with my choices. I didn't mention many other varieties that died in my yard or that I excluded from consideration due to disease or lack of productivity.
I got a lot of good info from people like Alex and Rob and others on the forum and am thankful for their help. I am so glad that Pickering was one of my first trees, and I may never have tasted many of my other favorites without this forum and the people posting. I qualified some of the varieties on my list with question marks since I am not sure about them yet but try to share as much info as possible. A few years can let you know if a tree is precocious and its general growth habit and health. Some varieties can be very productive when finally mature but not start fruiting for 4-5 years. I have had over 100 fruit since planting Little Gem.
I have planted a few other varieties that have yet to hold fruit at 6 years of age. By that age, Little Gem may have produced 250 cumulative fruit since planting if it keeps producing like this. It would be unfair not to share success stories. I want to hear as many of those as possible, but hearing about failures can be helpful too. Sometimes someone else can explain why something failed and you try again and have success.
A practical top 10 mango list to maximize taste,productivity,variety of flavor profiles,ease of care including disease resistance and pruning needs, and to maximize length of mango season with 10 or less trees. (and choices for a top 2 or 3 or 5 sub-list from the list for people with less space.
Part of the problem is that many trees that are able to produce outstanding fruit may not do so consistently for the average homeowner due to a number of issues including disease. Another is that people with room for 3 or 4 trees plant varieties that all ripen at the same time instead of picking the right set of trees that will extend their season to as long as 4-6 months instead of 4-6 weeks or less. If your top 3 favorites ripen at the same time, make a cocktail tree of those varieties with help from the forum and plant 2 other varieties to extend your season.
Believe me, I understand the excitement of tasting an amazing mango of a new variety and wanting to grow it.
I planted many that failed and have several now that I am not optimistic about. Some, like Little Gem exceeded my expectations and hopes in a short amount of time. This thread isn't about the 10 absolute best tasting mango fruit, but rather a list of suggestions and comments about trees that deserve space for consideration in a small collection for homeowners. I don't spray my trees and this Summer will be my first with irrigation. Survival of the fittest and of those the best tasting and productive varieties over the longest possible season earn a place in my yard. I also want to cover as many flavor profiles as possible with my choices. I didn't mention many other varieties that died in my yard or that I excluded from consideration due to disease or lack of productivity.
I got a lot of good info from people like Alex and Rob and others on the forum and am thankful for their help. I am so glad that Pickering was one of my first trees, and I may never have tasted many of my other favorites without this forum and the people posting. I qualified some of the varieties on my list with question marks since I am not sure about them yet but try to share as much info as possible. A few years can let you know if a tree is precocious and its general growth habit and health. Some varieties can be very productive when finally mature but not start fruiting for 4-5 years. I have had over 100 fruit since planting Little Gem.
I have planted a few other varieties that have yet to hold fruit at 6 years of age. By that age, Little Gem may have produced 250 cumulative fruit since planting if it keeps producing like this. It would be unfair not to share success stories. I want to hear as many of those as possible, but hearing about failures can be helpful too. Sometimes someone else can explain why something failed and you try again and have success.
75
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Little Gem Mango
« on: March 11, 2021, 09:37:21 PM »
When picked early in the season Little Gem reminded me of Carrie with a strong resin component (one of my least favorite mangoes. Not because of the resin,it was just too mushy)
Little Gem had the Carrie flavor with a firmer texture. Later in the season it tastes different,the resin is subdued. I gave some fruit to about 10 forum members last season, one actually thought it had too much of that resin/spice flavor profile that they did not enjoy even fairly late in the season. Everyone else thought it ranged from pretty good to fantastic.
At various stages of maturity and ripening during its long season, it reminded me at times of Julie and Graham. I like both of those but I think Little Gem is better than those despite some similarities. Little Gem can have a good coconut essence when completely ripe late in the season.(and little or none before that)
I could pick well before mid July, but to me that is the sweet spot to open its picking window.
Depending on your taste preferences, picking times,and time it is finished off the tree before eating, it can be like having several varieties on one tree. Just eat it at the stage you prefer. If you only have room for one tree this can be an advantage once the tree matures and produces more fruit than you can eat at once by extending your potential harvest period.
Little Gem had the Carrie flavor with a firmer texture. Later in the season it tastes different,the resin is subdued. I gave some fruit to about 10 forum members last season, one actually thought it had too much of that resin/spice flavor profile that they did not enjoy even fairly late in the season. Everyone else thought it ranged from pretty good to fantastic.
At various stages of maturity and ripening during its long season, it reminded me at times of Julie and Graham. I like both of those but I think Little Gem is better than those despite some similarities. Little Gem can have a good coconut essence when completely ripe late in the season.(and little or none before that)
I could pick well before mid July, but to me that is the sweet spot to open its picking window.
Depending on your taste preferences, picking times,and time it is finished off the tree before eating, it can be like having several varieties on one tree. Just eat it at the stage you prefer. If you only have room for one tree this can be an advantage once the tree matures and produces more fruit than you can eat at once by extending your potential harvest period.
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