imidacloprid application for seedlings

[kalan]

So I have a bunch of 3-6 month old seedlings that just got hit hard by thrips in my shadehouse for a second time. Usually I manually remove them then apply soap/water. I have them under control now, but in a few weeks I will be leaving them unattended for a bit of time and contemplated the use of a systemic like imidacloprid on them to ensure some protection in my absence.

So my question is, how much for such a small container (cup to pint size and a couple larger ones in a 1gal)?
Any potential adverse affects if I over apply (the watering system is self contained, so no leaking into the environment)?

Label and online sources don't say anything in particular about seedlings. Just 2 tsp/gal
Thanks for your thoughts.
Keith

[Coconut]

I used a tablespoon per gallon to get the plant to absorb quickly for my citrus, seem that formulation keep my thrip population under control for all citrus, my three inch kaffir lime seedling is not attack for six months to a year with one treatment, remember to let plant absorb, do not overwater to wash away the expensive treatment.  Admiral pro is what I used for my citrus.   

[jcaldeira]

Imidacloprid is a neonicotinoid and is an extremely deadly neurotoxin to bees and other beneficial insects.   Be careful!   

The ease of how it imidacloprid moves makes it especially deadly:   It moves easily f rom the soil, through the xylem of plants, into leaves, fruit, flowers, pollen and nectar. Bees feeding on the nectar or pollen of treated plants will die, but probably not before transporting the nectar or pollen back to the hive, where many more will die.

John

[kalan]

I used a tablespoon per gallon to get the plant to absorb quickly for my citrus, seem that formulation keep my thrip population under control for all citrus, my three inch kaffir lime seedling is not attack for six months to a year with one treatment, remember to let plant absorb, do not overwater to wash away the expensive treatment.  Admiral pro is what I used for my citrus.   

ok, thanks. I heard it was used enthusiastically among growers of young citrus. So I suppose no harm in a .5-1 teaspoon application. Just making sure the active ingredient in Admiral pro is imidacloprid?
Keith

[kalan]

Imidacloprid is a neonicotinoid and is an extremely deadly neurotoxin to bees and other beneficial insects.   Be careful!   

The ease of how it imidacloprid moves makes it especially deadly:   It moves easily f rom the soil, through the xylem of plants, into leaves, fruit, flowers, pollen and nectar. Bees feeding on the nectar or pollen of treated plants will die, but probably not before transporting the nectar or pollen back to the hive, where many more will die.

John

Thanks, John - I have my concerns about it too. However, I felt since these seedlings are more than a year away from flowering, there should be little to no harm to the environment (I have a contained runoff). My concerns were merely with inhibiting growth or" burning" the seedlings themselves like over fertilizing can.
Keith

[bradflorida]

If you must use imidacloprid, it is best to apply it during the evening, after sunset, when the news are not active. 

Brad

[Mark in Texas]

If you must use imidacloprid, it is best to apply it during the evening, after sunset, when the news are not active. 

Brad

Would that before or after the weather report?

[bradflorida]

Funny!   Gotta love autocorrect. 

...when the bees are not active...

[Mark in Texas]

Imidacloprid is a neonicotinoid and is an extremely deadly neurotoxin to bees and other beneficial insects.   Be careful!   

I recently applied Adonis WP as a soil drench to my vineyard and weeks later the bees are having a ball.  I am never short of active bees on my fruiting trees, tropicals....anything in bloom.   Imidocloprid is widely used in my area for sharpshooter control (carrier of Pierce's disease).   I have been using it for many years as have commercial fruit, veggie, and grape growers in central Texas and beyond.

It is a silver bullet when it comes to avocados and citrus.

Here is the best price.  It's labeled for everything consumable and that includes tobacco - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adonis-75-WSP-Imidacloprid-75-Makes-100-Gallons-Packed-4-x-2-25oz-White-Fly-/271026091106?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1a69f462

1/4 tsp in a gallon of water as a soil drench will do the trick. 

Brad, it's systemic and effective for months since it translocates throughout all tissue.  Doesn't matter when you apply it.

[jcaldeira]

Imidacloprid is a neonicotinoid and is an extremely deadly neurotoxin to bees and other beneficial insects.   Be careful!   

I recently applied Adonis WP as a soil drench to my vineyard and weeks later the bees are having a ball.  I am never short of active bees on my fruiting trees, tropicals....anything in bloom.   Imidocloprid is widely used in my area for sharpshooter control (carrier of Pierce's disease).   I have been using it for many years as have commercial fruit, veggie, and grape growers in central Texas and beyond.

It is a silver bullet when it comes to avocados and citrus.

Here is the best price.  It's labeled for everything consumable and that includes tobacco - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adonis-75-WSP-Imidacloprid-75-Makes-100-Gallons-Packed-4-x-2-25oz-White-Fly-/271026091106?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1a69f462

1/4 tsp in a gallon of water as a soil drench will do the trick. 

Brad, it's systemic and effective for months since it translocates throughout all tissue.  Doesn't matter when you apply it.

The evidence for the danger of Imidacloprid is so compelling that Europe has outlawed it.  There have been many studies on its damage to bees' nervous system. 

Your anecdotal observations can't trump all this science.  Just because you don't see dead bees or a noticeable decline in bees doesn't mean no harm has occurred.  It took a long time to see DDT damage, too.

[shaneatwell]

so tempting

[Radoslav]

" Bans on some neonicotinoid uses have already been implemented in France, Germany, Italy and Slovenia"
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/jan/16/insecticide-unacceptable-danger-bees

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/07/01/over-30-million-bees-found-dead-in-elmwood-canada/

[Mark in Texas]

Where you sit is what you see. 

The evidence for the danger of Imidacloprid is so compelling that Europe has outlawed it.  There have been many studies on its damage to bees' nervous system. 

Your anecdotal observations can't trump all this science.  Just because you don't see dead bees or a noticeable decline in bees doesn't mean no harm has occurred.  It took a long time to see DDT damage, too.

It's not compelling to anyone doing their homework.

Bee colony decline has been relegated to various issues, main ones being virus and/or varroa mite attack.  There are many other factors that are at play.

I will continue to use the product in spite of the knee jerk European histeria based on some religion promulgated by the green movement.  It is safe, effective and this aint no anecdotal evidence.  Recommend you take it up with the USDA who has extensively tested it and approved its use for consumables and research the scientific field studies, a few I'll post here.

Here's one Italian study linking a product containing imidacloprid with bee kills.  Was found to be a false positive.  This is just one example suggesting imidacloprid haters are full of bee jelly. 

In 2001, no hive losses were recorded in the region of
Friuli although the percentage of drilled Gaucho® FS
350 dressed corn seeds was significantly increased over
2000. This observation in combination with the results
of the presented replicated cage study make it very unlikely
that the bee colony losses in 2000 were linked to
the drilling of Gaucho® FS 350 dressed corn seeds. Accordingly,
the real causative factors (e.g. climatic conditions,
bee diseases) of the bee hive losses in 2000 remain
to be elucidated in order to develop appropriate
preventive measure against losses in future. 

http://www.ask-force.org/web/Bees/Schnier-Bee-Safety-Bulletin-2003.pdf

...and another refuting your claims - http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10646-012-0863-x

 Many laboratory studies described lethal and sublethal effects of neonicotinoids on the foraging behavior, and learning and memory abilities of bees, while no effects were observed in field studies at field-realistic dosages. The proposed risk assessment scheme for systemic compounds was shown to be applicable to assess the risk for side-effects of neonicotinoids as it considers the effect on different life stages and different levels of biological organization (organism versus colony). Future research studies should be conducted with field-realistic concentrations, relevant exposure and evaluation durations.

Let's just give a lab mouse a lethal dose of LSD and see what gives.

...and another....

4. CONCLUSIONS
The results presented in this review show, that the main contamination danger for bee products originates more from apicultural practices
than from the environment.

The main contamination risks for the different bee products are:
• Honey: antibiotics
• Wax: persistent lipophylic acaricides
• Propolis: persistent lipophylic acaricides,
lead
• Pollen: pesticides
• Royal jelly: antibiotics.


http://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/89/21/66/PDF/hal-00892166.pdf

Perhaps the Euro ag community needs to reflect on their own farming practices before using Bayer Environmental as an excuse for their failures.

Having said that, even though bees constitute a small part of total pollinators population, I err on the cautionary side and drench after a bloom cycle.

I doubt if you're a commercial grower trying to make a living providing food for the masses.

Mark