Pond Apple as root stock

[mikesid]

My annonas are not so big so I only get a few fruits each year. I live next to a park where they were planted with a lot of pond apples. I was thinking of going over when the fruits get ripe and grabbing some seeds as I saw them littered all underneath the trees last season. Does anyone have any experience grafting using pond apple as root stock? What method worked the best? I also plan on using a couple of these in my aquaponics system so I think that a rootstock like this would be great.

[Guanabanus]

Pond-apple as rootstock is still experimental.

Gary Zill and I proved that which tree you get your seeds from can make 100% difference;  they all die or all do fine.

So tag or map which trees you get fruit from for seeds, then keep your seedling batches well tagged, and follow how your grafts onto them behave for at least one year.

[mikesid]

I'm beginning to lose my faith that pond apple makes good rootstock.. I've been trying to get the 'White' Ilama from Excalibur for a little while now. It seems Excalibur has been using pond apple to graft their ilamas, though I'm not sure what they use for their other annonas. With only a handful being propagated at any time. When these grafts fail as they appear to have done the past couple seasons I begin to question the use of A glabra as a rootstock. Also, though it was my fault, I purchased a 'Guillermo' ilama that had the glabra rootstock taking back over..maybe Excalibur isn't using the good source of seeds Har once had access to. Any thoughts? or is Ilama difficult to graft?

[Patrick]

I have been noticing that annona incompatibility can hide for a year or more pretty easily.  I had a San Pablo Custard Apple on an unknown rootstock take almost eighteen months.

[cbss_daviefl]

I have a red genova from excalibur and I constantly have to remove the rootstock suckers, almost weekly.  The scion is very slow growing.  I want to graft onto something else but I didn't want to trim it because it is so small.  At least, I can confirm it is actually a red illama with the new growth it has on it right now.  Hopefully next year I can take budwood.

How about using illama as rootstock.  I germinated seeds I got from Luc a year and a half ago and they are already 4 feet tall, outgrowing all other annona seedlings I am growing.  250 ppm GA3 soak overnight seems to get good germination, at least on that one batch, 11 of 12.   I have one seedling planted in the ground and it seems to be doing ok.  Anyone else have illama seedlings in the ground or aware of issues?

[JF]

I have two Red ilamas on cherimoya and pond apple both seem to grow very well here in SoCal. I personally I would not graft any Annona on pond apple. The only one that has proven difficult on cherimoya is graviola..,..any suggestions?

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Illama

I have a red genova from excalibur and I constantly have to remove the rootstock suckers, almost weekly.  The scion is very slow growing.  I want to graft onto something else but I didn't want to trim it because it is so small.  At least, I can confirm it is actually a red illama with the new growth it has on it right now.  Hopefully next year I can take budwood.

How about using illama as rootstock.  I germinated seeds I got from Luc a year and a half ago and they are already 4 feet tall, outgrowing all other annona seedlings I am growing.  250 ppm GA3 soak overnight seems to get good germination, at least on that one batch, 11 of 12.   I have one seedling planted in the ground and it seems to be doing ok.  Anyone else have illama seedlings in the ground or aware of issues?

Personally i think illama on illama is the best bet.

I've seen the trees grafted onto pond apple...and they sucker horrendously.

I've got lots of seedlings planted from the pond apple tree that's supposed to be the best for usage as rootstock...and I'm planning on grafting some Annona sazlmanii onto those.

So far I've seen great results with reticulata as rootstock for illama as well...but it's only been about 6 months since grafting.

I'm curious to see which performs better...reticulata or cherimoya, as rootstock for illama.

here is the genova red, on illama rootstock.

[adiel]

There are particular cases where Pond Apple are beneficial as rootstock.  A friend of mine has flooding issues in his yard.  His fruit trees such as Sugar Apple where not doing too good with the flooding conditions.  We did testing of Pond Apple rootstock.   A custard apple (Annona Reticulata) was grafted onto the Pond Apple.  It is doing excellent and fruited in less than a year after being grafted.  The only fruit it gave did fall off but I was not expecting such a young graft to hold it.  The reticulata is growing vigorously.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Yes,

I think the pond apple might be a great rootstock for certain applications.

I'm curious to see the difference it makes with A. salzmannii.

I have one grafted on a mystery annona (Annona montana? definitely a close relative of soursop, and somewhat cold hearty)  and another from Har, that's grafted onto pond apple.

mystery rootstock



Pond apple roostock



both are growing nicely, and starting to crank up the leaf production now that it's warming up.

I will be sure to share my experiences with these two plants!

[mikesid]

I have about 60 cherimoya rootstocks going and will practice some grafts soon. The Genova Red I have and Pajapita llama never sucker and the Genova Red is growing faster than all my other annonas which makes me think that these are not on glabra rootstock but most likely cherimoya. There was a large row of moya rootstocks in pots when I picked these up a couple years back. Since then I think they have been using pond apple exclusively for ilama.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

I have about 60 cherimoya rootstocks going and will practice some grafts soon. The Genova Red I have and Pajapita llama never sucker and the Genova Red is growing faster than all my other annonas which makes me think that these are not on glabra rootstock but most likely cherimoya. There was a large row of moya rootstocks in pots when I picked these up a couple years back. Since then I think they have been using pond apple exclusively for ilama.

you can look at the rootstock and see if they're cherimoya or pondapple..the bark is much different.

maybe take a look?  the pond apple seems to have a more rugged bark texture...and the graft union usually looks a bit gnarly.

BTW..how big are your cherimoya rootstocks....you should graft them now if possible..and strike while the annona iron is hot!!

[adamold]

I live along a river here in S. Florida, and there are numerous Pond Apple trees growing wild on the bank—almost in the water. Does it seem that grafting illama or sugar apple onto those trees would produce tasty fruit, or would it end up waterlogged and flavorless?

[HMHausman]

I live along a river here in S. Florida, and there are numerous Pond Apple trees growing wild on the bank—almost in the water. Does it seem that grafting illama or sugar apple onto those trees would produce tasty fruit, or would it end up waterlogged and flavorless?

Great question, which I have never seen the answer to.  You, my friend, have a project to undertake.  Try it to see what the results are and please report back.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

ditto that..

maybe Har has insight on this topic.

my guess is it would make the flavor different

I live along a river here in S. Florida, and there are numerous Pond Apple trees growing wild on the bank—almost in the water. Does it seem that grafting illama or sugar apple onto those trees would produce tasty fruit, or would it end up waterlogged and flavorless?

Great question, which I have never seen the answer to.  You, my friend, have a project to undertake.  Try it to see what the results are and please report back.

[Guanabanus]

Worth trying.  Try each kind of graftwood  on two or more ponnd-apple trees, especially if you can find different pond-apple trees with large leaves, or small leaves, or some other distinguishing trait.  Then pond-apple branches will have to be regularly pruned away from any scions that take.

[Orkine]

ditto that..

maybe Har has insight on this topic.

my guess is it would make the flavor different

I live along a river here in S. Florida, and there are numerous Pond Apple trees growing wild on the bank—almost in the water. Does it seem that grafting illama or sugar apple onto those trees would produce tasty fruit, or would it end up waterlogged and flavorless?

Great question, which I have never seen the answer to.  You, my friend, have a project to undertake.  Try it to see what the results are and please report back.

Curious, was this test done and what is/was the result.
I have a couple of pond apples that grow in a wet area (inundated about half the time) and wanted to know if something good can be grafted on.

Also can I get scion from anyone that I can try to graft on.