Author Topic: Not enough Durian Discussion  (Read 25010 times)

DurianLover

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #350 on: November 29, 2022, 11:17:15 AM »
Planting seedlings is best for somebody with the space to plant quite a few. Certainly there will be some disappointment.  But it is the only way to get the next terrific durian.
Iím interested in opinions on selecting seed material to plant.
Iím not just planting out anything. Most recently Iíve planted some very goog Penang durian seeds that came from mixed orchards. Iíve also planted a couple of D-2 seeds that came from a neighbors farm who has lots of variety.
The prospect of actually hybridizing intrigues me too. I have hybridized ornamentals and I figure it wouldnít be that hard with durians.
Peter

I was disappointed to learn seedling success rate is not that good judging from this particular example. The farmer in Philippines planted 100 Chanee seeds, and only three seedlings were superior. One particular seedling named Duyaya sounds incredible. 55% of the weight edible portion with superior quality. Compare to standard 30% after husk and seeds weight. But I suspect Penang seedling from premier varieties will have better success rate.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RMt5CLn7Ik

@cassowary 4pm rule seems to apply at my particular location only. After posting I found out that I've been buying from wholesaler entire time without being aware of it. Also "white privilege" helped with discounts, lol...Prices are higher elsewhere in town. Here is his Facebook page if you are ever passing by through town:  https://web.facebook.com/groups/202054478437173/user/100009790715484/  Only 150 meters from MRT station.

fruit nerd

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #351 on: November 29, 2022, 04:49:38 PM »
One thing that is really intriguing me at the moment is the possibility of getting durian outside of the main season. I'm learning now of a couple of trees in the general area that consistently fruit in Nov. This is a few months earlier then our main season.

fruit nerd

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #352 on: November 30, 2022, 09:11:35 PM »
Quick question, we have seeds from a tree that produces in November. From what I understand, this is the only tree they have that fruits this time of year (therefore cross pollination is unlikely). What are the chances that a seedling of this tree will fruit at the same time of year? I imagine it would be a bit of a gamble. Maybe grafting would be a surer bet. It is meant to be a highly productive tree.

jimreevescairns

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #353 on: December 01, 2022, 03:57:16 AM »
Hey Michael
I tried a couple of fruit off that tree - really nice! And seems totally self compatible Ö. Wonder whether itís flowering will vary being in a different microclimate ? Ie Bloomfield as opposed to Cairns - definitely worth growing !!

fruit nerd

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #354 on: December 01, 2022, 05:41:19 AM »
It was quite good I think, very rich! From what I understand, up the season starts slightly earlier up towards Cooktown and ends a bit later down around Mission Beach. Might fruit a bit later in Cairns vs Bloomfield but I'd guess it would be still early/off-season.

Finca La Isla

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #355 on: December 01, 2022, 12:44:55 PM »
Iím any case it would be worth grafting that tree and planting it around, study it and enjoy the result regardless of whether it produces early. But even if the fruits start dropping only a couple of weeks earlier than the rest it will be an advantage. That the grafted tree should produce sooner and that you guys like the fruitÖ.
Peter

FloridaManDan

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #356 on: December 01, 2022, 01:21:47 PM »
Jumping into this discussion way too late but had to mention to my South FL peeps, I picked up some fresh Durian pieces today from Foodtown supermarket in Davie. Obviously, nobody had any more detail to provide me than already on the label.
Could probably debate on how fresh it was, but it tasted significantly better than any frozen ones I've ever purchased there; the flavor was bonkers (in the best way).

A shame nobody else in my household wanted to eat it lol. Cant emphasize the title of this thread enough, there is not enough durian down here in SoFlo.

fruit nerd

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #357 on: December 01, 2022, 05:30:38 PM »
A shame nobody else in my household wanted to eat it lol.

It's nice to be able to enjoy durian with others, it's also nice to have more for yourself :)

spencerw

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #358 on: December 02, 2022, 02:08:59 PM »
If that tree is a lone producer I would plant as many of those seedlings out as possible. When I'm looking into starting and growing out seedlings there are a few things I'm after. A lone tree who produces well. So its genetics will be reliable. It seems durians like to outcross. Which can be interesting, however most of our common durians here are very poor quality. So most of the time the fruits come from mixed durian orchards where the genetics will be very crossed. So that one good tree will be pollinated with the poor quality ones. So loners that produce well are intriguing. I also prefer smaller fruits for marketability. Also reliability of fruit production and fruit quality. And also that the tree is very strong and healthy. Luckily I know of a single tree with all of these traits. This is the only genetic I think is worth growing out seeds that I've come across.. I would also prefer to utilize that cultivar as root stock as it has all the desirable traits and I assume the rootstock will also effect the graft on top. So may as well graft that tree onto its own seedlings as well.

fruit nerd

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #359 on: December 02, 2022, 04:44:21 PM »
Thanks for the ideas Peter and Spencer.

Finca La Isla

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #360 on: December 02, 2022, 05:44:40 PM »
Lots of interesting thoughts.
Iím thinking that you have a better chance at improving quality by getting crosses.
My market doesnít want small fruits. My best clients always want the biggest fruits.
For rootstock I want to use the biggest seeds.
I agree that you want material from a tree that is strong, self fertile, a consistent producer. What I want to do is introduce something that might produce a better, terrific durian.
Eventually I want to intentionally hybridize durian material.
Itís a multigenerational project.
Peter

spencerw

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #361 on: December 07, 2022, 01:47:44 PM »
I'm surprised your clients want the largest fruits available! Your prices must be much lower and your quality better. Our current highway robbery market prices are $10 per lb. No one would want to buy a 12lb montong where half of the fruit isn't edible and lots of weight in skin. But our genetics are inferior so the montong is always unproperly ripened. I'd rather sell a 4lb fruit where every bit of flesh is delicious. We don't have a major durian market yet so its still hard to sell when people haven't even tried durian yet. So interesting how different markets develop!

fruit nerd

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #362 on: December 07, 2022, 05:27:41 PM »
I'm going to start planting out more durian trees soon. I have a bore near the area I will be planting in. Do you think the roots of durian trees could give any issue? I will be topping them to control their height so the trees shouldn't become too big. Would 5-6 m from the bore be okay?

Finca La Isla

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #363 on: December 07, 2022, 06:35:48 PM »
Our durians arenít that big. 2-2.5kg. $8kg. Cheap for tourists but not so much for locals. The quality is pretty good on our farm but thereís lousy durian around that hurts the local reputation. We try to be careful, take care of our clients.

Finca La Isla

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #364 on: December 07, 2022, 06:39:36 PM »
Not too sure what you mean by a bore?

Durian is one of the trees we let get tall eventually since the fruits fall when ready and arenít usually damaged. More fruit per tree!
We do prune to shape, trying to get mostly horizontal branches with good space, open interior.
Peter

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #365 on: December 07, 2022, 06:47:01 PM »
For pumping bore water. Our irrigation runs off bore water and our house uses uses bore water as a backup during the dry season. Regarding height, I'd love to let our trees get tall but cyclones are a real risk here. Would be nice to be in an area with the risk of tropical cyclones.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2022, 06:48:33 PM by fruit nerd »

happyhana

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #366 on: December 08, 2022, 08:03:46 PM »
I'm surprised your clients want the largest fruits available! Your prices must be much lower and your quality better. Our current highway robbery market prices are $10 per lb. No one would want to buy a 12lb montong where half of the fruit isn't edible and lots of weight in skin. But our genetics are inferior so the montong is always unproperly ripened. I'd rather sell a 4lb fruit where every bit of flesh is delicious. We don't have a major durian market yet so its still hard to sell when people haven't even tried durian yet. So interesting how different markets develop!


Is there a growing consensus on the best all around (flavor, texture, productivity, ripening) small durians for Hawaii? Pohakulani? Others?

Finca La Isla

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #367 on: December 08, 2022, 10:19:40 PM »
Prices vary depending on quality and demand. At the moment we have two varieties, one costing 20% more than the other. Thatís assuming the whole fruit is good. If we suspect a fruit might not be that great we put it in a half price pile and people can sort through that. A friend has musang king for sale and he gets a bit more for that. Like in Asia.
Durian is a very good business here. A problem we have is that, in stores and on the street, there will be durians that have been picked early, some of it stolen, and so buyers can get a bad impression of durian here.
Peter

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #368 on: December 14, 2022, 07:36:16 PM »
Curiously, I have two durians in the ground from the same fruit (last season) with very different characteristics. One is 81 cm high with a leaf length of 14 cm while the other is only 57 cm with a leaf length of only 10 cm. Other than the shorter seedling being much smaller, the plant is growing okay. It regularly has new growth but the leaves are a bit yellow (the intense sun/heat at the moment isn't helping). I'm hoping I end up with a nice dwarf durian but wondering if others have seen large differences among seedlings from the same tree.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2022, 11:37:50 PM by fruit nerd »

Gone tropo

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #369 on: December 15, 2022, 08:52:45 PM »
Curiously, I have two durians in the ground from the same fruit (last season) with very different characteristics. One is 81 cm high with a leaf length of 14 cm while the other is only 57 cm with a leaf length of only 10 cm. Other than the shorter seedling being much smaller, the plant is growing okay. It regularly has new growth but the leaves are a bit yellow (the intense sun/heat at the moment isn't helping). I'm hoping I end up with a nice dwarf durian but wondering if others have seen large differences among seedlings from the same tree.

Not sure about trees planted from the exact same fruit, but certainly there are massive differences in vigour and growth between individual trees.  Two of the fastest growing ones I have seen that are not seedling trees, are the P88 and kradum.  Peter salleras has also found these two too grow really well and fruit really quickly in his climate.

cassowary

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #370 on: December 17, 2022, 01:12:39 AM »
The bore should have a fairly thick steel pipe so the durian roots shouldn't be able to damage that. I doubt the durian roots will ever go down to the bottom of the bore where the impeller head is. Should be no worries. Eventually you will be able to see the large "surface roots" and be able to identify if they are going to the pump area, they might is the pump is leaking. They will search out that water eventually.

Peter,
same issue here with stolen or crap fruit spoiling peoples first experience.

florida,
Was that a hawaii durian or Thai durian??

Yes you will have genetic difference in offspring from same parentage, even if the same tree pollinated the female you got the fruit/seed from, the recent big durian breeding program in Thailand used only a few varieties (think chanee, mon thong, kan yao, puang manee etc) and crossed them. There should be an article online describing what they used.
Me and my bother aren't genetically identical but come from the same mother and father, tree's are the same in some way.

Peace
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0hip

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #371 on: December 29, 2022, 06:37:07 PM »
I any advice one what characteristics to pick when picking a seedling yo plant. One of my trees died and Im outside of durians optimal range so Iíve tried grafted trees and they jusy canít adapt. I planted maybe 30 seeds from fruits I ate last year and a good portion of them died over the winter which weeded out the less cold tolerant ones.
 How do I pick which one to plant in the ground? Should I be going for the tallest most vigorous one or a smaller more well formed one. I was thinking a smaller one that looks a bit healthy as it is just in a back yard I donít partially want a giant tree.
 Keep in mind in the photo some are just in a pot thatís much taller so it makes the height difference seem much bigger than it actually is. Only re potted this week and tan out of potting mix



fruit nerd

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #372 on: December 29, 2022, 07:49:12 PM »
Interesting question. I'm no expert but from research in Australia, Red Prawn was found to be fairly cold tolerant (no leaf drop with min of ~5C from memory). Not sure about cold tolerance of seedlings vs grafted but I think it's generally accepted that seedlings are more resilient. One more thing, there are durio species that grow at higher elevations in Malaysia. It could be possible that grafting onto such rootstocks could improve cold tolerance. I have heard of durian growing and fruiting all the way down near the Whitsundays. I imagine Magnetic island could be a nice micro climate.

cassowary

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #373 on: December 29, 2022, 10:47:56 PM »
I any advice one what characteristics to pick when picking a seedling yo plant. One of my trees died and Im outside of durians optimal range so Iíve tried grafted trees and they jusy canít adapt. I planted maybe 30 seeds from fruits I ate last year and a good portion of them died over the winter which weeded out the less cold tolerant ones.
 How do I pick which one to plant in the ground? Should I be going for the tallest most vigorous one or a smaller more well formed one. I was thinking a smaller one that looks a bit healthy as it is just in a back yard I donít partially want a giant tree.
 Keep in mind in the photo some are just in a pot thatís much taller so it makes the height difference seem much bigger than it actually is. Only re potted this week and tan out of potting mix



All of the durian seedlings will become large eventually so if you don't want a big tree you have to prune it multiple times per year or not plant it at all. There aren't any natural dwarf durian available that I know of.
And if you think you have one it is probably more like a sick tree or malnourished tree.
If durian tree's doesn't grow more then 1m per year after the 1st year there is something wrong. And fruit would most likely be 15 years in the future.
If the trunk is less then 6cm diameter after 3 years, growth rate is not what it can be and it's not gonna fruit in between 5 to 10 years for a seedling. IMOE.

The most vigorous seedlings you have probably doesn't have much genetic variability unless you have sown seeds from 30 different mother tree's with themself quite a lot of genetic variability.
It's more likely the soil in the pot (even if you have the same blend there will be differences), herbivores, position, water and seed size have determined which are your biggest and smallest seedlings now.
If you want to try and gain some cold sensitivity you probably need a sample number higher then 1000. And that would have to be with lot's of different sources seeds.

The most cold sensitive durian species known is durio kinabaluensis but I do not know of anyone in AU having it. And you would have to cross that one with Durio zibethinus and plant heaps of those seeds if you want a fruit that resembles common durian. That project would take around 20 years. I am gonna start it as soon I get the kinabaluensis.

You would most likely have to plant a durian close to a wall that receives sun as to have something radiating heat at night so that you have higher chance for survival long-term.
You would probably do good with installing a big proper galv steel enclosure with shade mesh to protect from wind and mid summer sun during dry days.

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cassowary

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #374 on: December 30, 2022, 12:59:29 AM »
I thought I would share this video of an operation in the area that are sharing their experience with trellising trees on a tatura trellis.
Durian, Jackfruit etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztEzssc35Vc

He mentions many points why he will have to take the 10x100m rows he made.
Very enlightening video and many good points on why it can be a nightmare to have the trellis.

Posts rooting after less then 10 years, wire rubbing on branches causing issues, wire can damage trees if a windbreak and tree falls on the wire which is likely. Can not use some pruning tools cause trellis in the way etc.
They did ultra high density which is just not good for any evergreen tree's and he will explain how the trellis affected the outcome of that too.

PS. it's no me in the video, just thought it was a good share.

In another video he stated he's gonna have to take out his durian tree's too :(
That was for more reasons then the tatura trellis alone.

Peace
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