Shortest Growing Season Citrus

[tybert83]

I am looking at harvest citrus trees into mid-October at the latest when we get our first hard freeze in zone 5b. I plan on having potted citrus trees in a hoop house until the weather is nice and I can transfer the trees outside. I also can not bring them into my house, or bring them back into the hoop house until the fruit is gone.

What citrus fruits have the shortest growing season?

Right now I think the Tville Citrangequat, 10 degree Tangerine, and Sudachi might work.

[jim VH]

Of the varieties I grow, because you normally harvest them green, as limes, my earliest harvested citrus is Sudachi in mid-October, followed by Thomasville Citrangequat a couple weeks later.  My earliest harvested ripe fruit is the Flying dragon (If you count that as a citrus) starting in mid-October, followed by Changsha tangerine in late October, then Kabosu and Yuzu in mid-November.   There are probably many other varieties that ripen as early (or earlier), which I don't grow.

Jim

[Millet]

If you want to actually grow a good (excellent) tasting early maturing citrus, then grow Xie Shan.  It is ready to harvest in September.

[tybert83]

Do you think it ripens earlier than "Early St. Ann."? Have you grown any of these personally?

[Millet]

I have not grown Early Saint Ann, but i have grown Xie Shan for7 or 8 years in zone 5 greenhouse, and it is ready in September.  I would also add, that at several of the Southeast Citrus Expo citrus best taste testing contests that I attended Xie Shan was the winning variety both times.

[tybert83]

Awesome I will add that to my list.

So far I got:
Sudachi
Thomasville Citrangequat
Xie Shan Satsuma
St. Ann Satsuma

Does anyone know what the earliest lemon or lemon substitute that ripens is?

[vnomonee]

Kishu mandarins (satsuma parent) also ripen early, in the fall. As for lemon substitute Ichang Lemon or maybe even Yuzu ripen in late fall

[Piss P]

Of the varieties I grow, because you normally harvest them green, as limes, my earliest harvested citrus is Sudachi in mid-October, followed by Thomasville Citrangequat a couple weeks later.  My earliest harvested ripe fruit is the Flying dragon (If you count that as a citrus) starting in mid-October, followed by Changsha tangerine in late October, then Kabosu and Yuzu in mid-November.   There are probably many other varieties that ripen as early (or earlier), which I don't grow.

Jim

Would love to know your thoughts on the Kabosu fruit and how you use it

[jim VH]

Hi Piss P,

     I find the Kabosu fruit to be quite good.  They're very round (hence the Sphaerocarpa in the Latin name), larger than a yuzu and have a complex flavor I enjoy, somewhat like Meyer lemons with a touch of grapefruit.  They have far fewer seeds than the Yuzu, and most years even fewer seeds than the Sudachi.
 They're just sweet enough you can eat them out of hand if your taste tends to the sour end.  Unlike the Yuzu, the peel is not aromatic and less flavorful, but it still has a nice lemony flavor. 
     I use them mainly for the juice, and to make marmalade during years, like this one, when my Yuzu has very few fruit.
     I haven't had a chance to test the hardiness yet but, given that it is closely related to Yuzu and Sudachi, it could well be hoped to be as hardy as those two.

Jim

[Peep]

I haven't had a chance to test the hardiness yet but, given that it is closely related to Yuzu and Sudachi, it could well be hoped to be as hardy as those two.

I thought that sudachi is significantly less cold hardy than yuzu? Still better than most citrus, but closer to the level of a satsuma?

[pagnr]

I have only tried Kabosu in Japan, store bought fruit.
These were still green, maybe golf ball sized and half hard.
Thought it had bitter lemon flavour. ( We used to get cans of Soda, soft drinks in Australia with this flavour years ago ).

jim VH, sounds like you are talking about fully ripe fruit ??
Sounds more interesting now.

[SoCal2warm]

I thought that sudachi is significantly less cold hardy than yuzu? Still better than most citrus, but closer to the level of a satsuma?

From my testing 2 hours north of jim VH, it seems like Sudachi has close to the same level of absolute cold tolerance. But Yuzu is a more vigorous grower and can more easily recover from damage. The Sudachi and most of the Yuzu plants finally died after being exposed to a brief temperature drop to 9 °F, even though the rest of the winter wasn't that cold. They had previously survived a quick drop down to between 12 and 14° a previous winter, with only slight to moderate damage.

[Kevin Jones]

Kishu, Owari and Brown's Select are all excellent Fall ripening citrus for me.
Central Alabama.
Excellent eating quality too.

Kevin

[kumin]

Interesting video on indoor/outdoor semi-commercial Yuzu growers in New Jersey. The daughter has put her new skills to good use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwTc5929U5g

[jim VH]

Hi Peep,
     Based on my experience, the Sudachi and Yuzu are of comparable hardiness.  Both my large ten year old plants plants easily survived 8F (-13.3C) with only small twig damage, with other lows of 12F, 13F and 14F, during an extended freeze in January 2017 when the temperature stayed below freezing for over 110 hours.

Socal, judging by the pictures in your other thread, I suspect your plants succumbed because they were just too small.  I generally protect my plants from extreme cold for about three years, till the main trunk diameter is about the same diameter as my thumb (the 'rule of thumb' and they are relatively bushy.  The larger size, and the protective effects of the larger canopy, gives them the energy they need to survive future cold snaps, which are relatively infrequent in the Pacific Northwest of the USA.

Pagnr,  Yes, I was talking about fully ripe Kabosu.  I do know that both Sudachi and Kabosu used in Ponzu sauce are used green, the Yuzu being used ripe(?).  Based on my taste test, the Sudachi has better flavor when green.  The Kabosu, the difference between green and ripe is not so clearcut, possibly because the ripe Kabosu is sweeter than either Yuzu or Kabosu. 

[Peep]

@tybert83

In the book about cold hardy citrus from Olivier Biggio, labels both Sudachi and Kabosu as substitute for lemon. With Kabosu harvesting from September(while green) to November and Sudachi from October (while green) to December. This is for his plants in France. 

@jim VH @SoCal2warm

I'm surprised at how close you put Sudachi to Yuzu, not saying you're wrong though. Would be good news to me!

In this same book Olivier puts Yuzu at -15°C, Kabosu at -12°C and Sudachi only at -10/-11°C. Also for reference; Satsuma at -10/-12°C, Kumquat at -12/-13°C. There are lots more in the list but don't want to copy it all. Even if the numbers are optimistic overall, the difference between Yuzu and Sudachi is significant according to him. Another source puts Yuzu at -17 and Sudachi at -12. A third source puts Yuzu at -15 and Sudachi at -13, which is closer to your experiences. Again, not saying you guys are wrong, just adding information.

[Piss P]

Hi Piss P,

     I find the Kabosu fruit to be quite good.  They're very round (hence the Sphaerocarpa in the Latin name), larger than a yuzu and have a complex flavor I enjoy, somewhat like Meyer lemons with a touch of grapefruit.  They have far fewer seeds than the Yuzu, and most years even fewer seeds than the Sudachi.
 They're just sweet enough you can eat them out of hand if your taste tends to the sour end.  Unlike the Yuzu, the peel is not aromatic and less flavorful, but it still has a nice lemony flavor. 
     I use them mainly for the juice, and to make marmalade during years, like this one, when my Yuzu has very few fruit.
     I haven't had a chance to test the hardiness yet but, given that it is closely related to Yuzu and Sudachi, it could well be hoped to be as hardy as those two.

Jim

I appreciate the information! I'll have to keep on the lookout for one - love the Japanese citrus' variety in flavor profiles

[pagnr]

In this same book Olivier puts Yuzu at -15°C, Kabosu at -12°C and Sudachi only at -10/-11°C.

It would be interesting to find out where these three Citrus are grown in Japan ? ( outside of Hothouse structures )
Probably Yuzu would succeed further North, or at higher altitudes than the others.
There is probably a point where Yuzu no longer grows ok. Northern Japan / Hokkaido ??

Many Citrus fruit are claimed as 'Lemon' alternatives, basically because they are sour acid juiced.
Some I have tried have off flavours that are hard to disguise in drinks or cooking.
Sudachi and Kabosu are however true culinary Citrus in their own right.
They are both unique, and not even substitutes for Yuzu.
These 3 fruits are quite commonly available in Japanese supermarkets, along with Lemon and Lime too.
That is 5 culinary acid Citrus available.
We have 2 in Australia, Lemon and Lime commonly available. ( Calamondin and Makrut/ Kaffir Lime can seasonly be found in Asian grocery stores )

[deRoode]

This video might be relevant for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5nbeHPjj2w

[jim VH]

Hi Piss P,

I got my Kabosu from McKenzie farms in South Carolina; it was grafted on a Citrange rootstock.  It's not shown in his list of Citrus, so you'll have to call and see if he has one in stock.

Jim