Author Topic: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial  (Read 88592 times)

Ilya11

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #450 on: August 25, 2022, 03:18:10 AM »
Interesting, I checked now my plants and all of them including poncirus varieties have green scales that are not very prominent for the moment. 
When do you think the difference starts to emerge? At the leaf fall?
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kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #451 on: August 25, 2022, 04:01:37 AM »
Today's photos of a Conestoga #128 twig showing developing scale covered brown buds. This tree is strongly deciduous and has minimal late growth flushes.
128 has never been protected in any manner.

This tree hasn't flowered yet.



« Last Edit: August 25, 2022, 01:10:20 PM by kumin »

Ilya11

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #452 on: August 25, 2022, 02:30:20 PM »
Not with my plants, could be more sun in your place.
I  suspects that this coloration could be due to the induction of anthocyanins that arrives in autumn  in poncirus leaves.
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                       Ilya

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #453 on: August 26, 2022, 10:26:16 AM »
Outdoor F² Segentranges in late Summer.



Conestoga 006 1 year since planting. On Poncirus rootstock. Flowered in May, no fruit set.


Conestoga 011 tetraploid, no flowers to this point. Very hardy.



Conestoga 010 very hardy, has flowered, no fruit set.


Another 010


Conestoga 001 semi-deciduous, initial Spring flush of leaves are distorted no bark splitting.


A-026 Segentrange precocious and hardy. The original tree has flowered and fruited.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2022, 12:03:53 PM by kumin »

1rainman

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #454 on: August 28, 2022, 03:17:40 PM »
How do you cross breed citrus considering they usually pollinate themselves

mikkel

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #455 on: August 28, 2022, 03:53:57 PM »
There is a lot of information here. You can read a little in older posts.
Many citrus plants are nucellar and thus simple clones of the parent tree, but there are also many varieties that are zygotic. However, nucellar trees will also produce some zygotic offspring.
For nucellar varieties, it depends on the number of seedlings to find the zygotic offspring

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #456 on: August 28, 2022, 07:12:03 PM »
As Mikkel mentioned, hybridizing Citrus isn't necessarily as straightforward as most plants. Citrus can produce:

1. Nucellar embryos which develop into exact clones of the mother tree.

2. Zygotic embryos, containing genetic contributions from the seed parent, as well as the pollen donor parent, same as are normally found in the majority of plants.

3. Or commonly, a mixture of both types.

Citrus having exclusively nucellar embryos can serve as pollen parents. Citrus producing zygotic embryos can serve as either pollen, or seed parents. There are additional nuances such as pollen sterility (Satsuma), self incompatibility (Clementine tangor).

The actual breeding process involves removal (emasculation) of the pollen bearing anthers from the intended seed bearing flower before any pollen is shed(dehiscence). And protecting the flower from bee visitation, or accidental pollen introduction onto the receptive stigma.
 Pollen is collected from the intended pollen donor flower(s) free of contamination by extraneous pollen. This pollen is transferred onto the stigma of the emasculated seed flower. The stigma should produce a sticky film on it's surface when it's receptive to pollen. The pollinated flower is then identified and protected from additional unintended exposure to pollen until the stigma is no longer receptive.

Not ever breeder will follow ever step for the sake of saving time. Not every flower will produce a persisting fruit. Unpollinated flowers and  buds can be removed to increase fruit set among the control pollinated flowers. Removal of pre-existing fruit may also improve fruit set of the control pollinated flowers.

The center of the flower showing the miniature fruit (ovary) behind the style and the small round stigma. The pollen grains germinate on the stigma and the sperm cells grow through the pistil into the ovary. Fertilization occurs in the ovary. Encircling the ovary are a ring of filaments topped by anthers. In natural pollination the pollen is transferred from anthers onto the stigma.
In controlled pollination unintended pollen is excluded from contact with the stigma, while the desired pollen is placed on the stigma by human intervention.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2022, 04:32:33 AM by kumin »

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #457 on: September 27, 2022, 04:46:54 PM »
With the onset of Autumn just beginning, I've noticed the Conestoga A-026 Segentrange fruits starting to break color. Hopefully they'll progress to a solid orange color by the time of ripening. The fruit size is just a bit larger than Poncirus and the shape perhaps more globose, but Poncirus is already quite round. The rind is smooth.



Last year's fruit color on immature A-026fruits.









« Last Edit: September 28, 2022, 06:17:29 AM by kumin »

Ilya11

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #458 on: September 28, 2022, 03:42:44 AM »
Kumin,
Are fruits of poncirus already ripe in your region?
Best regards,
                       Ilya

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #459 on: September 28, 2022, 05:33:51 AM »
Ilya, Poncirus is also showing rind color transition, but is about 2-3 weeks from full ripeness. Within the cold frame there's Poncirus+ which is showing less color change than the A-026. The Poncirus+ fruits are much smaller, perhaps due to low seed count. A-026 blooms and sets fruit freely, but last year's seeds produced all nucellar seedlings.
I'm very interested in seeing what the taste of the A-026 fruit is upon ripening. I recall the peel having a degree of Poncirus flavors. Of greater interest is the taste of the flesh.

There are several hundred grafted young trees planted outdoors to further evaluate their Winter hardiness. I plan on using both anti desiccants and diluted white interior latex paint spray in December. The white paint will only be applied on the South side of the trees.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2022, 06:14:42 AM by kumin »

Ilya11

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #460 on: September 28, 2022, 09:05:52 AM »
Thank you,
But when PT was flowering this spring?
My plants usually flower at the middle of April, now fruits are almost entirely yellow.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #461 on: September 28, 2022, 09:41:25 AM »

Poncirus in full bloom on April 24th 2022.


Poncirus fruits today. They're in the process of changing color. We are getting cool nights, which accelerates the color change.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2022, 09:47:22 AM by kumin »

Ilya11

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #462 on: September 28, 2022, 11:11:18 AM »
It seems that A-026 was in a frame, was it flowering also in April?
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                       Ilya

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #463 on: September 28, 2022, 12:21:57 PM »
It seems that A-026 was in a frame, was it flowering also in April?

Yes, Ilya, A-026 flowered a few days before outdoor Poncirus, but due to cool weather the blooming periods overlapped quite a bit. I suspect the warmer daytime temperatures in the cold frame hastened the blooming period by about 5-7 days.
The overlapping blooming periods allowed me to make a number of crosses.

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #464 on: October 10, 2022, 10:18:04 AM »
PoncirusPlus fruits beginning color transition. These fruits are unusually small and may have low seed counts. Nevertheless, there should be an opportunity to taste the fruit. These trees are 3 years old. 2 out of seven trees bloomed and fruited. All the fruits are undersized, but conditions were not ideal during the flowering period. However, Conestoga A-026 flowered successfully during the same period.




5* Citrumelo fruitlets on 3 year old trees. These are the results of late Summer blooms. There are also fruit from Spring flowers, but they're obscured by vegetation, including thorns.






kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #465 on: October 30, 2022, 07:12:31 PM »
First 5* Citrumelo mature fruit sampled on 3 year old trees. The fruit has just begun to change color. I didn't expect much of the fruit, but it was sweet as well as acid and had a noticeable grapefruit flavor. There was a bit of bitterness
similar to grapefruit. The fruit was approximately 4 cm (1 1/2") in diameter, quite small. The Brix was 12.



When high grafted onto Poncirus the scions have survived and recovered after a low of 5°F (-15°C) during the past Winter.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 07:32:01 PM by kumin »

tedburn

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #466 on: October 30, 2022, 07:18:20 PM »
excellent result for 3 year old trees

Florian

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #467 on: October 31, 2022, 04:10:41 AM »
First 5* Citrumelo mature fruit sampled on 3 year old trees. The fruit has just begun to change color. I didn't expect much of the fruit, but it was sweet as well as acid and had a noticeable grapefruit flavor. There was a bit of bitterness
similar to grapefruit. The fruit was approximately 4 cm (1 1/2") in diameter, quite small. The Brix was 12.



When high grafted onto Poncirus the scions have survived and recovered after a low of 5°F (-15°C) during the past Winter.

Three years is very quick. Are you planning any mass trials with 5* too?

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #468 on: October 31, 2022, 05:03:23 AM »
I'm not planning on any mass trials, although it may be a great challenge, provided the percentage of zygotic seedlings is high enough to make it feasible. My plans are more along the lines of using it as a parent in crosses with Citrandarins of Changsha parentage as well as the selections from my Citrange Winter trials.
I suspect this tree is a zygotic seedling due to it's precocity.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 04:30:49 PM by kumin »

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #469 on: November 06, 2022, 02:51:07 PM »
I've been able to taste test one fruit each of Poncirus Plus and Segentrange Conestoga 026.

Poncirus Plus:
More bitterness
Brix 11
Rind 4mm thick
Smaller fruit 7 seeds
Less wax
Acidic

Conestoga 026:
Brix 12
Low bitterness
2mm rind
More wax, but little taste to it
Acidic

When diluted with water and sweetened,I preferred the Conestoga 026 flavors.


Poncirus Plus very small fruit due to inadequate foliage to support the fruit.


Poncirus Plus


Poncirus Plus


Conestoga 026

Conestoga 026

Conestoga 026

Conestoga 026

Conestoga 026 diluted with water.


Conestoga 026 fruits
« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 04:31:15 PM by kumin »

Jibro

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #470 on: November 07, 2022, 05:14:02 AM »
Nice report, can you add how big Conestoga fruits are or weight and how seedy they are on average?  Are Conestoga fruits ripen at the same time as poncirus or 1-2 weeks later? Thank you and congrats, I think even a small improvement compared to trifoliate fruits with the same hardiness as poncirus is good progress for people in USDA Zone 6.

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #471 on: November 07, 2022, 05:38:09 AM »
The fruit ripen at the same time as Poncirus and about 1-2 weeks before Poncirus Plus. The largest fruit was 5cm in diameter. The smaller ones about 4cm, not really larger than Poncirus. This may contribute to early ripening?
In regards to hardiness, there was a small amount of bark blistering in Winter on the southwest side. Dilute white latex spray on that quadrant of the trees may be helpful. As the trees grow larger it may not be an issue.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 05:42:51 AM by kumin »

Walt

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #472 on: November 07, 2022, 11:18:19 AM »
ery encouraging results.

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #473 on: November 07, 2022, 12:23:54 PM »
Seed count from one 026 fruit. Seed count is higher than last year, but the fruit size is also larger. There are a few more empty seed coats than I found in Poncirus.


Akebia

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #474 on: November 07, 2022, 02:55:25 PM »
These F2 citranges should be more highly zygotic than the mother right?  Very encouraging progress.