Author Topic: Poncirus+ x kumquat  (Read 1041 times)

Akebia

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Poncirus+ x kumquat
« on: October 31, 2022, 10:28:16 AM »
You all have gotten me excited about the possibility of breeding new cold hardy citrus.  It seems like P+ can potentially bring a new generation of edible hardy hybrids.  I live in zone 7 and I like citrus with edible peels like kumquat.  P+ has no resin in the flesh, but does it have wax in the peel?  What other citrus cultivars would be good to contribute to such a goal ?


kumin

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Re: Poncirus+ x kumquat
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2022, 11:50:19 AM »
There are 4 fruits on my seedling trees. As they ripen I'll comment on any observations. That being said, I haven't gotten excited by Poncirus rinds to this point. Maybe there'll be a surprise?

Akebia

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Re: Poncirus+ x kumquat
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2022, 01:43:04 PM »
I don't know when I would approach your number of seedlings Kumin, but I just started reading the F2 citrange thread and its really inspiring and interesting.  It gives me hope that it could be possible to have a more than 50% kumquat hardy in zone 7.  Aromatic leaves would be really nice too, looking forward to hearing how that aromatic citrange you selected develops. 

vnomonee

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Re: Poncirus+ x kumquat
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2022, 03:23:27 PM »
I pollinated a meiwa, nagami, and a hindsii kumquat, after removing the anthers on the flowers, with  dried poncirus+ pollen. I also pollinated a yuzu with the pollen. I have a fruit holding on each kumquat except hindsii, it dropped all the fruit. The yuzu is also holding some fruit which is now starting to ripen. Unless those flowers were wind or insect pollinated I might have hybrids. I would love a zone 7 kumquat even if the taste isn't great it can be used for further breeding.

Peep

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Re: Poncirus+ x kumquat
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2022, 05:45:56 PM »
A different cross, but maybe of interest to the people here: Ichangquat 6-7-2 is very cold hardy, it is 'ichang papeda x kumquat" (if I remember correct kumquat nameiwa). It's supposedly more cold hardy than Ichang Papeda itself, and cold resistance is equal or better than other hybrids with up to 50% poncirus.

I don't have it and haven't tasted it, but I've read the fruit quality is not very good, although not completely trash. But for a hybrid with 0% poncirus, to me this is interesting. Both for growing this plant in cold regions, and for further hybridization.

tedburn

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Re: Poncirus+ x kumquat
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2022, 07:37:57 AM »
Very interesting the hybridyzation topic. I' m also very impressed about the first successes of high motivated Forum members like Kumin and Ilya. And I' m sure the more enthusiasts try different hybridyzation on the long run there will be useful citrushybrids.
In January I bougt a Nippon Orangequat with ripe edible fruit, which was very tasty and had some seeds. I sowed the few seeds and was very exited when I discovered in summer, that one of the seedlings had one leave which was trifiliate with very small two ears.
But now still have to wait a few years to see the fruit quality. Frost hardyness can be tested earlier by a graft on Poncirus rootstock.

Walt

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Re: Poncirus+ x kumquat
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2022, 10:11:35 AM »
Its good to have another person working on more winter hardy citrus.  Being in zone 7 I think you will get a bigger percent of survivers than Kumin in zone 6.  If vnomonee's fruit's seedlings do have trifoliate leaves, then that will jumpstart your work.   There was a thread active a while back on crosses of Ponciris and kumquat.  The discussion went that many kumquat x Ponciris hybrid seedlings lacked vigor and died young.  But some were vigorous and grew well.  So don't get discouraged if your success rate is low at first.

Walt

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Re: Poncirus+ x kumquat
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2022, 10:36:00 AM »
https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=29541.50

Perhaps this was one of the threads that got you interested.  Though these crosses were not with P+, they could be useful.  While I haven't read of test crosses to prove it, it seems like the difference between P+ and other ponciris is a single gene.

Akebia

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Re: Poncirus+ x kumquat
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2022, 11:52:23 AM »
Kumin, Iím sure youíre right that the rind wonít be exciting but look forward to hearing about it. 

Vnomonmee, amazing work!  Canít wait to see updates upon germination.  This was my hope too, to cross with yuzu and kumquats.  Maybe you could store hindsii pollen to try on P+?

Peep, Ichangquat definitely sounds interesting.  I guess that puts 6-7-2 close to the hardiness of something like a Thomasville citrangequat?  Along similar lines, I wonder also about using something like a Taiwanquat, since the F1 taitri is already zone 7 hardy that might be another route to follow at least in terms of getting a higher percentage of cold hardy progeny early on. 

Tedburn, nice luck!  Iím looking forward to updates as the orangequat hybrid develops. 

Walt, thanks for the link.  There is a lot of to learn there going through that thread.  From Marcinís experience, the F1s are fairly cold hardy already.

It sounds like the kumquats and P+ are both zygotic so thatís already a huge boon.

tedburn

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Re: Poncirus+ x kumquat
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2022, 12:18:12 PM »
Hello Akebia,
short imageupdate to the 9 month seedlings of Nippon Orangequat x ( Citrumelo ? ), only signs of trifoliat leave, see first picture at one leave. Plan is to graft the top next year to Poncirus or 5* Citrumelo and plant in ground a year later for Winter hardiness test. Still with back up of the other half of the plant.




Peep

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Re: Poncirus+ x kumquat
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2022, 12:58:12 PM »
Peep, Ichangquat definitely sounds interesting.  I guess that puts 6-7-2 close to the hardiness of something like a Thomasville citrangequat?  Along similar lines, I wonder also about using something like a Taiwanquat, since the F1 taitri is already zone 7 hardy that might be another route to follow at least in terms of getting a higher percentage of cold hardy progeny early on. 

From what I understand, it could be a step above Thomasville. Like I said it could equal hybrids with 50% poncirus. So on the level of citrange and citrumelo. Thomasville is only 25% poncirus and a little less hardy.

But this is my impressions from reading the forums. Not from experience. In spring I hope to get a scion from Ichangquat and add it to my collection. 

vnomonee

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Re: Poncirus+ x kumquat
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2022, 02:53:24 PM »
Taitriquat is a great idea. It could produce a lemonquat type of fruit depending on if x nagami or x meiwa. Would need to be early ripening. Thomasville doesn't ripen in zone 7 before hard freezing from what I've seen online but can be used as a lime while green. Taitri is probably hardier than whatever citrange was used to make Thomasville, it has survived in my zone 7 as of now including 6f freezing rain. Will have to see how it does at 0f.