Recommendations for dwarf, semi-dwarf, or Condo Mangoes . . . .

[Epicatt2]

For those of us where space matters and who have only a city lot to grow our tropical fruit on, which would be some ideally recommended mango cultivars that are dwarf, semi-dwarf, or Condo options? 

This would be for zone 9b and let's estimate that only three or four smaller mango trees would be the max that could fit on the lot (along with all the other stuff).

Ideally cultivars which are precocious, have decent flavor, and aren't prima donnas about culture and are not prone to disease would be ideal. Also it would be helpful to have cultivars which have their ripening times spread out over the season.

Suggestions?

TIA

Paul M.
==

[Mark in Texas]

Pickering.  Use the search feature here too.

[FruitGrower]

https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0

[lebmung]

Any mango will work if it doesn't have a tap root and it's grafted very low at the base near soil. And no mango don't have a problem with low grafts like citrus.

[Oncorhynchus]

Rosigold (early) Pickering (mid) Honey Kiss (late)

[bovine421]

Amrapali Julie Pickering Ice Cream Neelam
Ice cream or Trini as we call it and Julie will take more TLC. But well worth the effort. Amrapali and Julie are the only 2 true Dwarfs. There are a few other Indian varieties that may fall into the true dwarf category.  

[bovine421]

Amrapali Julie Pickering Ice Cream Neelam
Ice cream or Trini as we call it and Julie will take more TLC. But well worth the effort. Amrapali and Julie are the only 2 true Dwarfs. There are a few other Indian varieties that may fall into the true dwarf category.  

You could probably add dwarf Hawaiian and Little Gem to the lists above.
Another option you might want to think about
Cecilove is said to be manageable and has a sub acid tart component to it. A potential alternative to Sweet Tart. I have one being grafted to Piva rootstock. Which is said to have a dwarfing effect on some Florida varieties. I don't think anyone from Fairchild Gardens has made a list. I have been contemplating on having LZ grafted onto it. As for Amrapali it was developed by the agricultural University of India to be disease resistant and is used extensively in attentive  mango farming. Spacing 10 ft or less

https://www.tropicalacresfarms.com/product-page/amrapali

https://www.tropicalacresfarms.com/product-page/cecilove-zill-34-24
3
https://www.tropicalacresfarms.com/product-page/piva

MOS   

[bsbullie]

Any mango will work if it doesn't have a tap root and it's grafted very low at the base near soil. And no mango don't have a problem with low grafts like citrus.

No, not "any mango" will work...

[Mark in Texas]

Any mango will work if it doesn't have a tap root and it's grafted very low at the base near soil. And no mango don't have a problem with low grafts like citrus.

No, not "any mango" will work...

I just pulled some notes from recommendations you made years ago.  Varieties and comments mentioned are Honey Kiss - compact, late, small fruit.   Venus - compact.  Still stand by those statements?

Grassiass...

[zands]

My Pickering which was planted 8-9 years ago puts out every season. Is doing well this year with three blooms. It is planted where there is lots less wind ventilation/air circulation, yet is doing much better than my other trees at not having fungus hitting panicles and BB sized mango fruits.

Also on my other trees the infamous first bloom of this year 2021 in South Florida (East South Florida at least) was impacted by moisture/fungus. I see this less on my Pickering. IOW lots of fruit formation in all stages, from the three blooms

[bsbullie]

If space is limited, I suggest tasting potential varieties before planting.  Growth habit is nice but if you dont like the taste, why grow it (I would never plant a Julie, Ice Cream or even Pickering).

Some named herein have some disease issues in Florida.

Some varieties are naturally very compact and slow growing/dwarfing in nature and some are a little more vigorous but very manageable with pruning.

Some varieties can be "dwarfed" when on certain rootstocks  but you may be taking your chances with an experiment.

Do your own research,  don't always rely on what others read and regurgitate...

[bsbullie]

Any mango will work if it doesn't have a tap root and it's grafted very low at the base near soil. And no mango don't have a problem with low grafts like citrus.

No, not "any mango" will work...

I just pulled some notes from recommendations you made years ago.  Varieties and comments mentioned are Honey Kiss - compact, late, small fruit.   Venus - compact.  Still stand by those statements?

Grassiass...

Honey Kiss, yes.  The Venus may have been based on my actual specimen in my yard

For instance, my Phoenix definitely seems to be on a rootstock that is dwarfing it yet my Pina Colada is more vigorous than most I have seen.

[Mark in Texas]

Will look for Honey Kiss then.   I got Orange Sherbet wood from you via our Texas network.  The fruit is good but man is it vigorous.

Out of 5 or so varieties last year Pickering was my wife's favorite.  It truly excels in my environment regarding looks, texture/no fiber, a rich and sweet flavor, production, disease resistance.  Environment/soil/temps...."terroir" if you will truly plays a part regarding varieties that work and those that don't.

[bovine421]

If space is limited, I suggest tasting potential varieties before planting.  Growth habit is nice but if you dont like the taste, why grow it (I would never plant a Julie, Ice Cream or even Pickering).

Some named herein have some disease issues in Florida.

Some varieties are naturally very compact and slow growing/dwarfing in nature and some are a little more vigorous but very manageable with pruning.

Some varieties can be "dwarfed" when on certain rootstocks  but you may be taking your chances with an experiment.

Do your own research,  don't always rely on what others read and regurgitate...

Rob with the various dwarfing rootstock even when grafting the same varieties. Is there always a chance that a certain percentage will be runts instead of dwarfs.?

[johnb51]

This topic has come up from time to time in various iterations.  Pickering is always suggested.  Neelam's another if you like its flavor.  Honey Kiss.  Add another for mid-season, and you should be set.  Something citrusy would be ideal.

[bovine421]

This topic has come up from time to time in various iterations.  Pickering is always suggested.  Neelam's another if you like its flavor.  Honey Kiss.  Add another for mid-season, and you should be set.  Something citrusy would be ideal.

This Pickering has never been sprayed

In my microclimate with good air circulation I don't have much of an issues with anthracnose.
The true test will be. Julie and ice cream last summer I didn't spray them at all other than the little bit that they had coming from south Florida they did fine.
To be prudent I have started them on Plant Doctor organocide every two weeks.

Malika has been in the ground for many years has never been sprayed for anthracnose or powdery mildew. Kicks It Like a Rockstar

This is not a Dwarf.It's a Valencia pride has been in the ground for 10 years planted during the rainy season has received zero maintenance no watering no spraying  hardly any anthracnose.
I know this is what they call anecdotal evidence. I travel the county extensively and see and talk to many backyard Growers. Most of them don't even know what anthracnose is most do not spray. South Florida is a different Beast hotter with about  a foot more annual rain. Folks in Orange County may have a different experience. Just as they received Frost damage on their blooms I had none. Maybe I am just blessed or it could be all about the microclimate

[bsbullie]

If space is limited, I suggest tasting potential varieties before planting.  Growth habit is nice but if you dont like the taste, why grow it (I would never plant a Julie, Ice Cream or even Pickering).

Some named herein have some disease issues in Florida.

Some varieties are naturally very compact and slow growing/dwarfing in nature and some are a little more vigorous but very manageable with pruning.

Some varieties can be "dwarfed" when on certain rootstocks  but you may be taking your chances with an experiment.

Do your own research,  don't always rely on what others read and regurgitate...

Rob with the various dwarfing rootstock even when grafting the same varieties. Is there always a chance that a certain percentage will be runts instead of dwarfs.?

Possibly...I have seen a couple of Carri on experimental dwarfing rootstock that are about 3 feet tall and in ground probably 10 years or so.  They are not productive.

[bovine421]

If space is limited, I suggest tasting potential varieties before planting.  Growth habit is nice but if you dont like the taste, why grow it (I would never plant a Julie, Ice Cream or even Pickering).

Some named herein have some disease issues in Florida.

Some varieties are naturally very compact and slow growing/dwarfing in nature and some are a little more vigorous but very manageable with pruning.

Some varieties can be "dwarfed" when on certain rootstocks  but you may be taking your chances with an experiment.

Do your own research,  don't always rely on what others read and regurgitate...

Rob with the various dwarfing rootstock even when grafting the same varieties. Is there always a chance that a certain percentage will be runts instead of dwarfs.?

Possibly...I have seen a couple of Carri on experimental dwarfing rootstock that are about 3 feet tall and in ground probably 10 years or so.  They are not productive.

Thanks Rob
I'm new to this game but I would think if Zhpp could come up with a very reliable dwarf rootstock. They would have it available for all their new varieties because backyard Growers are a good portion of their customer base. I would really like to have CAC on a dwarfing root stock. For some reason it impressed the hay out of me last season. I try not to use profanity because I don't want to get a 30-day band like Mark from Texas 

[bsbullie]

Actually,  backyard growers are not the main customer base for ZHPP (it is/was a very small piece).  Their attention is geared truly toward commercial sales.  That is one reason why they now have a minimum purchase requirement (which eliminates the one off buyer and people who have gotten licenses and buy 5-10 trees for themselves and/or small backyard sales), regardless if you have the proper licensing.

[bovine421]

Actually,  backyard growers are not the main customer base for ZHPP (it is/was a very small piece).  Their attention is geared truly toward commercial sales.  That is one reason why they now have a minimum purchase requirement (which eliminates the one off buyer and people who have gotten licenses and buy 5-10 trees for themselves and/or small backyard sales), regardless if you have the proper licensing.

That is probably a good thing.
Anyone with a tax ID number and landscaping trailer was going to South Florida bringing up here tropical fruit trees. That in itself may not have been a bad thing entrepreneurship but many Facebook marketers or playing tag switch-a-roo to give you anything that you requested. Not only that during the lychee ban in South Florida somehow they were able to get around that and bring lychee tree's up here. I actually bought a lychee emperor during that time frame and didn't realize there was a ban until I was informed by someone in Sarasota.

[Mark in Texas]

I know it's not labeled for such use in the states but paclobutrazol is not only a fungicide but a great PGR for dwarfing.  It is an antagonizer for the growth hormone gibberellin.   Its use is very extensive in other countries in avocado and mango orchards. https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/lawn-care/lgen/paclobutrazol-information-for-lawns.htm

i've been using Bonzi for years.  Got a gallon of another brand recently.

[bovine421]

I know it's not labeled for such use in the states but paclobutrazol is not only a fungicide but a great PGR for dwarfing.  It is an antagonizer for the growth hormone gibberellin.   Its use is very extensive in other countries in avocado and mango orchards. https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/lawn-care/lgen/paclobutrazol-information-for-lawns.htm

i've been using Bonzi for years.  Got a gallon of another brand recently.

Well Mark I got my chores done so I'm back on the forum to spread some more fertilizer. It sounds to me like you're Orange Sherbert needs a squirt. Question do you have a Sweet Tart.If so you might want to give it full dose. What you're recommending might be beneficial for container growers.

[Mark in Texas]

Well Mark I got my chores done so I'm back on the forum to spread some more fertilizer. It sounds to me like you're Orange Sherbert needs a squirt. Question do you have a Sweet Tart.If so you might want to give it full dose. What you're recommending might be beneficial for container growers.

Lost my Sweet Tart in 2018 - heater failure.  I'll probably do a soil drench if indeed the OS comes back.  As of yesterday it's green which is nothing short of a miracle.

Check out this rich green new growth on a Moro blood orange yesterday, and it's blooming!  That tree got a pound of my favorite Osmocote about a month ago, a 15-9-12, 8-9 month.



Want to clarify that I'm not really a container grower.  I'm a "hybrid" container-in-ground grower.    All my trees are in a permanent installation and are rooted into native soil.  The fact that they start out in a nutrient rich custom soil blend shoveled in from tractor's bucket   gives me a huge advantage over those who struggle with marginal, thin soils whether that be in Florida or California.  Time after time I've recommended RootBuilder solutions, mainly those growing avocados or mango.

[bovine421]

Well Mark I got my chores done so I'm back on the forum to spread some more fertilizer. It sounds to me like you're Orange Sherbert needs a squirt. Question do you have a Sweet Tart.If so you might want to give it full dose. What you're recommending might be beneficial for container growers.

Lost my Sweet Tart in 2018 - heater failure.  I'll probably do a soil drench if indeed the OS comes back.  As of yesterday it's green which is nothing short of a miracle.

Check out this rich green new growth on a Moro blood orange yesterday, and it's blooming!  That tree got a pound of my favorite Osmocote about a month ago, a 15-9-12, 8-9 month.



Want to clarify that I'm not really a container grower.  I'm a "hybrid" container-in-ground grower.    All my trees are in a permanent installation and are rooted into native soil.  The fact that they start out in a nutrient rich custom soil blend shoveled in from tractor's bucket   gives me a huge advantage over those who struggle with marginal, thin soils whether that be in Florida or California.  Time after time I've recommended RootBuilder solutions, mainly those growing avocados or mango.

Nice green bucket you have there. Is that an Oliver LOL
I remember as a kid on my grandfather's Farm. We used to get a lot of ice storms. It does not matter how wonderful the grid is if all the wires come down from the weight of the ice. Because we had livestock and many other reasons. We had a generator on a wagon with a hitch that hooked to the PTO of a 25-10 John Deere tractor. My grandfather used to say that that tractor would sip gasoline . If I remember from the photo you posted. Your Greenhouse is the size of most people's Machine Shed. Don't know if you could get a combine in there. You could probably back a manure Wagon in LOL So yes I could see how you could plant a sweet tart right in the ground. Once you get everything ironed out. Later on this summer if you need some bud wood or ploy seeds. I be more than happy to send you some.
 

[bovine421]

For those of us where space matters and who have only a city lot to grow our tropical fruit on, which would be some ideally recommended mango cultivars that are dwarf, semi-dwarf, or Condo options? 

This would be for zone 9b and let's estimate that only three or four smaller mango trees would be the max that could fit on the lot (along with all the other stuff).

Ideally cultivars which are precocious, have decent flavor, and aren't prima donnas about culture and are not prone to disease would be ideal. Also it would be helpful to have cultivars which have their ripening times spread out over the season.

Suggestions?

TIA

Paul M.
==

My first recommendations were a little exotic food for thought.
This is exactly what I would plant in that situation.
Dwarf Hawaiian for early West Indian profile
Pickering for somewhat early
Little Gem for midseason
Honey Kiss for late
Neelam for very late West Indian
Rosi gold is good for very early. It's sweet but just a little Bland for me. Rob is right over the next several months you should try an sample these varieties.
Amrapila is a true dwarf and interesting variety I will try to sample this season. That variety can be grafted and shipped to you in a 1 gallon container from Tropical Acre Farms possibly in the very near future


Jene’s Tropicals St Petersburg Florida
https://www.tropicalfruit.com/

Fruitscapes LLC. Pine Island Florida
https://fruitscapesllc.com/mangos/