Grafting successful or too early?

[franklazar26]

Hello!

This is my first (after multiple smaller scale practices) grafting. I did it as of Nov 22nd. My last image shows the technique I used. Also I used a Xei Shan scion, on a dwarf trifoliate (FD) 1 year old rootstock. How long before the parafilm needs to come off? Will the leaves shoot out like this before the graft is successful?

Thanks for any input! I’m amazed with this community’s help and I’ve learned so much because of it!

 

[pinkturtle]

I would say it is too early to tell.  The new grew could be the the graft is covered with plastic bag.  Like the rooting cutting, there are new grew shot out, and a lot of time the new grew never survived. 

I would see you need at least 3 months before there are good graft or not.  I am not an expert, I am new to grafting too.

Good luck.

[Bomand]

Walter.. from your pics I would venture that: The new growth that you see is the result of stored energy in the scion. This happens when conditions warrant it. New cuttings will also do this but never form roots and become a viable stand alone new life. It looks like your grafting technology is not well developed. I always recommend that new grafters start with cleft grafts. Cuts need to be tight and cambium needs to be in contact with scion and rootstock. Wrapping needs to be tight and waterproof. As for removing parafilm: I do not remove it at all unless the wrap is in position to girdle the union and cut off the flow of nutrients. Sun and natural deterioration will take care of removing the parafilm. I can not see your skill set as to grafting real well in your pics but it looks a little haphazard and loose. I am not speaking to criticise but to assist you. I do not want to discourage you either. I am including a link to the best cleft grafting tutorial I know of. Good luck with your grafting and welcome to the forum.https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/propagation/cleftgrafting/cleftgrafting.html  Your last pic looks suspect to failure as far as I can tell. A good cleft is a much better option in my opinion.

[kumin]

Agreeing with Bomand, the important indicator is the graft union itself, the development of callus, which should precede any scion bud growth. The formation of callus tissue and filling in any gaps within the new graft with callus determines the success or failure. Tight, secure "carpentry" is important in the graft. Also not trying to discourage, but promoting good grafting practice.
One concept I like concerning graftage, is that of cambium tissue "healing", similar to the natural process of bark wounds healing on tree trunks and branches. In fact, I believe it's this natural process that makes grafting and budding possible.

This photo is a different type of graft that shows the initial infilling of callus tissue.

[franklazar26]

Thank you for the input guys! I am very new to grafting so I’m happy to take any helpful tips. I did however go back and trim that, before I wrapped to make it clean one on one, I will let set and see what happens through it. I do have rooted cuttings doing the same thing, pushing out leaves but no roots yet. I did successfully graft a very small sapling this way so I thought this may work as well. I will look at the link and if it fails, try and try again!! I am determined to learn.

Thanks everyone!

Picture below was on a 1 month old seedling just for fun and practice. Of which I believe is mostly worked out.

[Bomand]

It looks like you were lucky here in this pic to get enough cambium contact to transfer nutrients and get calloused startimg to mend the union. Again...I am not being critical. Your skills will sharpen as you learn. A quality graft is done in a manner that includes inducing the growth of a scion in a particular place, position or direction you want it to grow. When buddiing, if done right the apical dominance will take care of seeing that the scion reaches for the sky. Remember that timing and skill is everything in citrus grafting. I see that you are in zone 5. Grafting time could be a little different than my zone.

[kumin]

In reference to rooting cuttings, a common practice is to provide bottom heat while keeping the stem above the media cool. The idea is to promote callus formation in the lower part of the stem by elevating the temperature. The above ground parts of the stem are cooled by periodic evaporative mist or fog spray. The cooler top temperatures are intended to discourage top growth until roots have formed.

In regards to the early bud emergence on the scions, is there a chance the scions are at a warmer temperature than the roots?

In either case the energy available in the scion should not be expended by bud growth prior to healing of the graft union.

The more experimentation you are able to follow and evaluate what works, the more experience and knowledge you will be able to develop. Many persons budding and grafting develop personal favorite techniques based on what has worked for them in the past.

[franklazar26]

Thank you Bommand for the tips. I know more skill will come with more experiences. I will have multiple attempts later on! I keep my seedlings in an active growth state with germination mats, mist, high intensity lights and warm temps. I believe that grafting timing isn’t totally a big deal. Maybe I shall take the bag off and see what happens there. I maybe will just start over eventually with these, regraft with new scions and use a cleft.

On my rooting cuttings, I do have them in plastic bottles, on a germination mat. So, if there is leaf emergence the roots have a much lower chance of coming out? I can adjust to this by cutting holes in the bottles while giving a mist every couple of hours.

[Millet]

In Franklazar's  initial post of this thread, it looks to me that the root stock portion of his graft was not cut down enough to give a good smooth match with the scion portion.

[franklazar26]

I actually did cut it down to make it flush with the scion and rootstock. That was only the method I used. I saw too large of a gap between the two so I thinned the stock down much more to make it flush.

[kumin]

Enclosed bottles are a positive in regards to helping to maintain a humid environment. If the bottles also trap heat originating from the mat it can have a detrimental effect by forcing early top growth. Unrooted cuttings have a limited store of energy contained within them. If expended prematurely, the cutting will stunt, then die.

You might want to experiment with varying amounts of top exposure to determine the best balance for your situation.

Cuttings taken at certain times of the year will respond much better than others. Done indoors, this may translate to being at the best stage of maturation following a flush.

[franklazar26]

So I checked my graft. I figured I’d not waste any more resources if it did in fact fail.. and to my amazement, it looks as if it calloused over! Tell me if I’m wrong though lol. But it did seem sturdy and seemed to be attached, I took off all parafilm attaching the two together. Of course now it is rewrapped and bagged again. But for my rooting, I went and took off the cap. I think I will try controlling the ambient temp better and concentrating on heating the bottoms.

[kumin]

There is indeed callus formation. The graft isn't a failure until all buds are dead. Inactive buds can be stimulated to push if any are present. If this is the same graft with bud growth, it is a positive indication.

[franklazar26]

Yes it is, it is the side with almost every bud actively shooting out. I believe 5 of the 7 buds have shoots coming from it breaking through the parafilm.

[kumin]

Congratulations! You have a successful graft. It still obviously needs protection until healing is complete, but looks good.

[franklazar26]

Awesome, well we shall see how it goes anyway! Thank you for the inputs and tips! Very excited to see if this truly works out!

[CanadaGrower]

Just wondering, is there a reason why you are grafting in the middle of winter?

[franklazar26]

I am more so grafting because I am:

1. Experimenting and learning
2. It’s my first time so I didn’t know if winter matters if it’s indoors + light + germination mat
3. I’m not patient enough for spring haha

I attempt to keep a constant state of growth for my trees by lots of light, germination mats, and good humidity.

They will forever be indoor container bound plants, outdoors in the summer and indoors during the winter as I am zone 5. I have only recently just gotten big into citrus, so my curiosity is getting the better of me wanting to try new things with it. So far I’ve had a very lucky success in grafting, but not so much rooting. I would much rather be self sufficient in my skills than buying nursery plants, and I stress again, I am not patient as you can see I ripped apart the parafilm 3 weeks after a graft to see if it worked