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Messages - pagnr

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401
January in Japan is mid winter. Maybe not much local fruit in some areas. There are probably various fruits coming from the warmer areas of Japan
also stuff grown in tunnel houses or out of cold storage. I was able to find various Citrus out of season, and the Fuji apples are nowhere bigger or better.
I hear there are some pretty impressive strawberry varieties these days.

402
I'm assuming they were cross pollinated so I don't think I'll be growing the seeds.

You might get closer than you think. Some people in Australia grew seed of a new hybrid plum and it fruited pretty close to original.
They might be bred by being  X pollinated but also maybe not AA X BB gives AB F1 hybrids.

403
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fruit Trees with high ornamental value
« on: November 23, 2022, 05:05:21 PM »
Clove tree.
Star Apple, with the gold leaf undersides.
Quince for its beautiful trunk and branches, matched by some tropical Ficus and Alectyron.
Even more so Strangler Fig with its complex mesh of entwining roots. Like H.R. Tiger artwork  from the Alien films.
Syzygiums for foliage and new growth flush tips.

404
I posted this on the Citrus section re some Phillipines Citrus.
Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao 
https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=39947.0

Biasong and Samuyao  are closely related to Citrus hystrix/Makrut Kaffir Lime.
I would be interested to know if you could even find them readily in the Phillipines ?
They might be rarer now or regional specialities ?
Really interested to know how different the fruit are to the well known C. hystrix.


405
That is interesting. I once tried a very large purple pear shaped Syzygium malaccense that was like a fantastic juicy pear.
The Keisui pears in your post are Nashi pears.
How do they compare with other Nashi pears ?
We sometimes get Nashi imported from China, Ya Pears. They are very light and crisp textured. Juicy but crunchy.
Interested how these Keisui compare to other Nashi.
Are you going to grow out the Keisui seed ?


406
Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Wanted: Desert lime (Citrus glauca) seeds
« on: November 22, 2022, 02:32:12 PM »
So basically, don't order from boutique-vegetale.com because they're claiming that it's "not obvious" and "too early" to tell that the plants are C. australasica and not C. glauca.
I contacted them and they're "looking into it" or something like that.

Those seedlings you grew are clearly not C. glauca. I would say also that they clearly are of C.australasica parentage.
Just wondering if those leaves seem a little long and the thorns a little long too to not be a hybrid ?
Hard to tell, I do have some Fingerlimes with longer leaves that look like that, but I haven't grown those seedlings recently.


407
There are probably two possibilities.
Grafting a seedling scion onto a mature tree might induce flowering in the scion by plant hormone activity,
ie the activity of a flowering hormone coming from the mature tree, or the reduction of an inhibitor in the grafted scion.

You could also induce flowering and maturity by physical growth.
If a seedling grows 1 metre per year, grafting a scion from it, onto a mature rootstock tree might cause it to grow and much faster, say 2 or 3 metres per year.
The placement of the scion and cutting back the mature tree to force scion growth ( top working) can result in rapid growth.

408
https://fruitandnuteducation.ucanr.edu/fruitnutproduction/Persimmon/Persimmon_Scion_Rooststock_Selection/

Kaki persimmons can be grafted to Kaki, American and D. lotus.
Some info on above link.
It is recommended not to graft non astringent Kaki varieties to rootstock seedlings of astringent Kaki varieties. Mainly fruit quality reasons.
Not sure how this relates to D.kaki on D. virginiana ( American ).
Are American Persimmon fruit astringent ?  The fruit is not seen much in Australia.

409
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Giant citron or citron-lemon hybrid?
« on: November 20, 2022, 02:51:32 PM »
I have an interesting lemon that is very small, but the fruit will ripen (turn yellow) and hang on the tree ripe for 1 year before it starts to dry up inside.

That sounds very interesting. Any more info on that ? Any Pics ?
There are a few dwarf patio Citrus in Australia, a small fruited Key Lime and cutting grown Myer Lemon and a Lemon.
Yours might be nice fruit size for dwarf trees in balcony patio pots.

( Any macrophylla rootstocks on the way for grafting it to ?   ps That is an In Joke from Citrus General Discussion on the Forum ).

410
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Calamansi x Tangelo Hybrid
« on: November 20, 2022, 03:37:55 AM »
Odd enough both inbreeding and crossbreeding....can have similar effects. So could be a hybrid or could be a weird seedling.

You can certainly get unusual seedlings from both inbreeding ( selfing ) and crossbreeding.
The changes in selfing could be from shuffling the genes around or throwing some out.
The changes from crossbreeding are more from swapping genes between pollinator and receiver. ( some of the above may occur too ).
It is often possible to take a good guess as to which of the above happened, from the look of the seedling.
Hybrids often look like a combo of two parents.
Variable Selfs often look like a version of the parent, sometimes slightly odd, sometimes quite odd, but still with parental characteristics

411
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Giant citron or citron-lemon hybrid?
« on: November 20, 2022, 02:49:09 AM »
The foliage of Lemons and Citrons are fairly distinct. Citrons have long oval shaped leaves. Lemons have more pointed tipped leaves.
Hybrids plants could be in-between, but often are hard to tell from Citrons.

412
I have tried home made Banana wine, Mango Wine, Jaboticaba wine, others too on the same night, but the fruit varieties a bit hazy as the last bottles came out.
Don't forget Japanese Umeshu from green picked Ume plums.
Davidsonia plums can produce a dry red wine.
Gin is turning up in Australia based on Bush botanicals including wild Citrus.
Apples can be fermented for home brew Scrumpy Cider, so there might be some options there with other fruit.
There are a few types of Plum wine from Eastern Europe at my Liquor store.
Distilling hard Liquor would also be an option, might have interesting characteristics.

413
There are mixed answers to this.
In some species  grafting seedling material to an established tree induces maturity and flowering.
In other species it doesn't work or has unreliable results.
Your best option is probably to graft the seedling material fairly low down and use the vigour of the established rootstock to push growth into the graft ahead by several years.

414
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus macrophylla
« on: November 18, 2022, 07:23:50 PM »
I got a few off type seedlings from my Macropyhlla seed grow outs. One is a bit more Pummelo like with broader leaves and bigger fruit but much the same.
One produced small Citron type fruit once or twice.
Another looks a lot like a West Indian/Key Lime with small foliage. It has flowered but not fruited.
Interesting that those seem to be throwbacks to possible ancestors ?

415
Citrus General Discussion / Re: First time citrus (Beginner)
« on: November 18, 2022, 03:23:46 PM »
Peats are often in compressed bales. Don't forget to check instructions expand it if required. Otherwise the % ratio will be out too.

416
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pine Bark Mulch and Tropical Fruit Trees
« on: November 18, 2022, 03:16:59 PM »
Termites in Australia have been a big problem in invading live grape vines on farms in Inland Australia.
And of course they are responsible for the formation of the hollow in a live Eucalypt  used to make a Yidaki or Didgeridoo.
I haven't heard much about them being a problem with fruit trees in tropical areas, and these are different termite species to above.
On an Sub tropical Avocado farm I worked on, tress were heavily mulched with wood chips as a Phytophora prevention.
The breakdown of the mulch producing beneficial microbes etc.

417
Citrus General Discussion / Re: First time citrus (Beginner)
« on: November 17, 2022, 03:37:01 PM »
I would not use 50% manure, it has poor structure ( you can heavily compress it without resistance ) and will only break down even more.
Also it probably has excess nutrients like Nitrogen.
Some people might used well aged horse stable manure, but there are better things to use.

The measurement is by volume. Sand will be heavier than mulch or pine bark or perlite.
Measuring by weight will give a wrong ratio. A kg of sand is probably 1 litre, a kg of Perlite cold be 5 to 10 litres or more. 10 litres of coco coir peat might only be 2 or 3 kg
To make 30 litres of pot mix,  I use three 10 litre buckets to measure the components prior to mixing by hand on a flat surface. ( on a clean plastic sheet ).

I use 70% coarse sand and 30 % coir coco peat mixes for smaller trees and composted pine bark based mixes for larger tree.
It is hard to recommend mixes as I am in a very hot summer /mild winter area in Australia, so that may not suit your conditions and management.

What type of mix are the trees as you received them.

418
Hi from Australia, we have Gall Wasp here, so far it doesn't quite look like it, and I don't think I have ever seen it in a shoot with such soft growth.
Usually it would be in the semi wood like your pic 3 of the graft.

419
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Pomelo / Grapefruit ID
« on: November 16, 2022, 02:51:51 PM »
As you say that the fruit came from an orchard of  a fruit enthusiast/collector, the possibilities are fairly wide.
Apart from visiting the tree for further ID, or getting a photo of the foliage, growing the seedlings is the next best option.
Most Pummelos have recognisable seedlings, different from grapefruit or Poorman / Seville. They will usually out grow both of these too.
Also as your friend suggested with the late fallen Pummelo fruit being sweet and edible, maybe the tree hasn't been harvested properly for best results.
That might be a long shot, but trying some fruit further down the track might be interesting ?
As I remember a long time friend grew a Pummelo in the cooler mountain areas around Brisbane, and that never produced acceptable fruit for them.

420
Many tropical fruit species seed interact with the animals that eat the fruit, go thru the digestive system, get coated with feacal matter, which may be protective of pathogens or dissolve the seed coat.  Many seeds fall and germinate in the surface leaf litter, or on the bare soil in the rain, without any covering.
Being outside the tropics, I found it often easy to germinate seed in a hot summer climate, but difficult to get many thru the first or second winter in cold wet pot mixes.
On the other hands friends in the tropics seem to plant seeds in bags of loamy soil, in the rain, under a shade tree.
One friend threw Avocado seeds out his kitchen window into the rainforest to grow his next lot of trees, and he was never running out of Avocado fruit.

421
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao
« on: November 15, 2022, 10:39:52 PM »
Just thought I would bump this topic, still interesting to find out.

422
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Pomelo / Grapefruit ID
« on: November 15, 2022, 07:11:49 PM »
I am getting seeds in my Oroblancos recently. Previously none, and none or occasionally one in a friends tree. There is now a heavily flowering Sour Orange / Smooth Seville next to it, that started fruiting last year so maybe that is the pollen donor ?
As I said above it is a nice fruit here, but I sent trees to the subtropics and the grower said it is not nice to eat there at all.
That is a revelation to me as I thought it would be milder flavoured in a warmer climate.
Climate might be a factor in sourness, but hard to see Oroblanco being super sour in NZ ?

423
Damping off is caused by pathogens, usually fungi.
It is often promoted by conditions that allow the fungi to thrive.
Some methods to reduce it are known such as
Using sterile pot media, avoid soil in the mix.
Water so the surface of the pot dries between watering.
Tall narrow pots are better at surface draining than seedling punnet flats.
Avoid dense fine pot mix. increasing the Air Filled Porosity of pot mix ( the pore space ) allows more air around seeds/seedlings and slows fungi
For tiny seed, watering once and sealing in a plastic bag may help ( the plastic bag method ). The mix should stay just damp to touch.
Coir peat is useful as it has high AFP as well as water holding capacity in a good balance.
Coarse sand about brown sugar grade particles can also be useful.
For most seed germination I use a 67% coarse sand or grit / 33 % coir peat, with the addition of 5% zeolite and maybe some perlite or similar for more air.
Some bog peat addition is known to be helpful to these type of seed raising mixes.
Bog Peat and Sphagnum have some inhibitory factors on Fungi. Bog Peat is slightly acid and fairly sterile, but fine grades may be too dense on their own and pH too low.
It is often difficult to balance the high temperature requirements to germinate tropical seed, with drying and draining of the mix, leading to very frequent watering and hence constant surface wetness. Tall pots may help as the seed will be in the damp free drained surface, with a wetter area well below the seed helping slow the pot drying out.
Another factor is don't overdo the pre mix fertiliser, or fertiliser additions on small plants. It promotes weak sappy growth prone to fungi.

424
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Pomelo / Grapefruit ID
« on: November 15, 2022, 02:44:45 AM »
Well if Darwin pomelos are sour, there's no way that our NZ pomelos will be sweet then! Good to hear.

Just to clarify that, some of the types grown in Darwin are from Thailand. When grown in Victoria the fruit were sour.
In Victoria I can grow Red Shaddock, Tahitian, Honnefs, a grapefruit hybrid. I have tried MurrayDowns, possibly came from China with Chinese workers.
Nam Roi is said to ok in cooler climates. Oroblanco and Melogold are " Pummelos"  actually Pummelo grapefruit hybrids for temperate climates.
(Interesting that I gave some Oroblanco plants to a friend north of Brisbane, the fruit are not great there from reports back )
Possibly some from Japan or China,  like Hirado or Mato would be ok in temperate climates.
We get imported Pummelos from USA and Isreal, and I believe South Africa also exports a variety.
How does this pic of Oroblanco match up with your fruit ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oroblanco_(sweetie)_fruits.jpg

425
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Calamansi x Tangelo Hybrid
« on: November 15, 2022, 01:23:22 AM »
It looks like a very interesting seedling, I sometimes get these type of odd seedlings in Rangpur Lime seed grows.  Dont think it is a hybrid, more of a genetic reshuffle or polyploidy change.

Ever thought of grafting the family calamansi to rootstock, it might do better and fruit faster.

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