Author Topic: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything  (Read 3002 times)

incubator01

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trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« on: May 19, 2022, 08:47:55 AM »
Hi,

last summer I bought a trifoliate orange from oscar tintori, 3 very nice developed plants grown into one huge root crown. The plant was full of small leaves but they sawed (I can still see the saw tooth ridges) some thicker branches to fit in the box.

In autumn it loses it's leaves, which is normal since it's deciduous, but now we're May and it's been getting plenty of sun, it got the usual slow release fertilizer mid march, the branches look green and lush, though some thorns and where it was sawed off have a yellow edge.
There are no signs of new buds, flowers of leaves, there are also no signs of damage or degradation, the branches do not turn brown or do not dry out, so I am confused as to why it isn't doing anything.
It was transplanted in a bigger pot with good soil mix last summer upon arrival, roots were washed out, the plant did not suiffer from this at all, I expected leaf drop but there was nothing, so I was happy to have a strong plant, but now I am wondering if he's adapting to our climate or needs a year to recover from the pruning or something else?

It stayed in my greenhouse in the winter, since it's cold hardy no additional protection was needed.
The only thing that still has leaves is a very young tiny shoot between those 3 plants but that one remains small. Since they're all grown from seed and not grafted , it's not a sucker so removal should not be required.

brian

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2022, 11:48:57 AM »
If the wood is green it will grow eventually.  I have seen my container trifoliate seedlings sit in dormancy for long periods of time without explanation, but they always resume growth eventually.  The one I have planted outdoors in the ground is a very slow grower. 

incubator01

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2022, 01:18:07 PM »
Ah ok, thanks for the reassuring :)
I just hope it won't miss out on our small summer.

vnomonee

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2022, 01:49:06 PM »
My fast flowering trifoliate is just a green stick. Not dying but not growing either. No leaves since last summer lol

Walt

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2022, 02:23:09 PM »
My FFP hasn't leafed out yet either, yjough trunk and branches look good.  Ponciris+ just started leaves a week ago, so I'm not worried yet.

incubator01

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2022, 02:31:25 PM »
ok, thanks for confirming this everyone, i fel much more relieved now:D
I was worried they'd damaged him too bad from pruning and he'd be in some sort of emergency recovery mode with a chance of dying but glad to hear it's not :)

incubator01

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2022, 03:18:08 AM »
In the beginning I also sent this question to oscar tintori but they gave me a rather weird reply:

Quote
if the vegetation does not restart, probably the reason is the rootstock. If the rootstock doesn't develop, maybe there is a stagnation of water or a fungus attack.
Our suggestion is bringinging the plants to restart growing with a pruning that togeter with the temperatures of this season and the fertilisation could let the vegetation growing again.

this trifoliate "is" the rootstock lol, they said it was from seeds themselves xD oh god, i fear language issues are at hand here

pagnr

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2022, 05:18:38 AM »
I think you could use the word "rootstock" as "root system" in the case of a seedling trifoliata.
Normally I would resist pruning to fix root issues.
However in some case with weak plants that try to flush too many buds, pruning back can help a better flush ( on less buds ).
It has also been said that trifoliata thorns can also photosynthesise prior to leaf emergence, so don't trim them in some cases.


incubator01

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2022, 10:01:09 AM »
I think you could use the word "rootstock" as "root system" in the case of a seedling trifoliata.
Normally I would resist pruning to fix root issues.
However in some case with weak plants that try to flush too many buds, pruning back can help a better flush ( on less buds ).
It has also been said that trifoliata thorns can also photosynthesise prior to leaf emergence, so don't trim them in some cases.

Don't worry, I was not planning on pruning anything, not even thorns. All I did last month was prune awy 2 small parts that were just inconvenient in the way, but even there i see no change so their theory did not work.
I'll just wait patiently.

mikkel

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2022, 06:21:03 PM »
Have you looked for snails? I have several types of citrus close to each other in my garden, some are attacked by snails, others are not. I just discovered it by chance, because they appear only in the evening. The slugs specifically attack the new growth, so it looks like the plant is still in dormancy.

incubator01

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2022, 06:05:40 AM »
Have you looked for snails? I have several types of citrus close to each other in my garden, some are attacked by snails, others are not. I just discovered it by chance, because they appear only in the evening. The slugs specifically attack the new growth, so it looks like the plant is still in dormancy.

The plant is in a container on my terrasse, no snails there, they never come anywhere near that place ;)
In my greenhouse however where my other citrus and pepper plants are, I did place anti snail stuff because they do appear there but this year they weer in small numbers.

Walt

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2022, 10:25:53 AM »
Finally the Fast Flowering Ponciris I got from Laaz last summer is showing new growth.  There are 5 tiny new branches with leaves.  The longest is about one cm., which is really small, but it the start of new growth,

citrange

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2022, 11:00:31 AM »
I have been growing the fast-flowering Poncirus for many years. In a really good citrus climate in seems to grow OK, but in cooler climates growth is extremely weak. The largest of my plants are still only about 20cms (18") tall. Yes, it does flower before other seedling trifoliates, but the flowers on these small plants are often imperfect and usually do not form fruits. On the rare occasion when a single fruit has formed it has dropped when still tiny. So for me it has failed to be useful for hybridisation experiments or obtaining seeds. Very sad!!

Ilya11

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2022, 11:22:21 AM »
Mike,
Graft  it to the regular poncirus, it improves growth and resistance.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Walt

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2022, 09:23:03 PM »
Thanks for the advice, Ilya.
Citrange, I'm hoping  to use its pollen.  It is my understanding that the FFP has only nucelar seeds.  And I am aware that no one has succeeded in transferring the fast flowering trait to any decendants other than its own nucellar seedlings.  I am not aware of any seedlings from its pollen and back-crossed again with FFP pollen.  If the trait is genetic it could show up in that generation.

vnomonee

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2022, 09:50:08 PM »
2nd the advice about grafting the FFT over on something else, I grafted my FFT to standard poncirus and I have another graft on tai-tri which has already taken but not growing yet. The FFT on own roots wasn't growing at all and after checking discovered-root rot! It's now in cococoir with clean roots under a glass tank, hoping it recovers. 

mikkel

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2022, 04:14:15 AM »
Ilya, is the precocious Poncirus also flowering as early as on its own roots when grafted on standard Pt? If I remember right @Till told me that grafted precocious Pt isn`t flowering for him. What is your experience with this?
Small poncirus in general are slow growing outdoors for me. Only in the greenhouse they grow sufficiently. But even my grafted precocious Pt does not bloom in the greenhouse.

Jibro

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2022, 07:08:35 AM »
I grafted FF Trifoliate with 5 other varieties in 2019 on Poncirus rootstock, it flowered every year but always dropped fruitlet later, FF  had ~ 20 fruitlet this year but they have light color in comparison with regular trifoliate, and most of them dropped already.
I got a small seedling FF Trifoliate 9 years ago and still no fruits, actually regular trifoliate will have fruits sooner than this most likely...
Grafting on strong rootstock helps a lot but it may still take 4 - 5 years when FF will have ripped fruits.





Millet

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2022, 01:16:31 PM »
My FFP produced one fruit its second year, then none the next 2 years.

incubator01

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2022, 02:07:21 PM »
well seemsmy trifoliate is finally doing something, I see brown dots in the branch armpits, i first thought they were armored aphids but when I removed one I found very young developing leaves, now removed of course, in it.
Guess they really are late compared to other species

brian

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2022, 08:25:26 PM »
Good to hear, glad you didn't give up on it

incubator01

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2022, 08:55:00 AM »
Seems I was a bit hasty with my optimism.
those brown dots have not opened up yet (and no they're definitely not bugs ;) ) but the bottom of the soil in the container is still  moist, so the plant doesn't drink because he has no foliage, but won't grow foliage despite being in a lot of sun.
Some of the lower thinner branches are getting a color between green and yellow, the thick main branches remain green.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to wait with watering until mid august with a root booster because now the soil is not dry enough yet, and I'm also afraid he won't produce any foliage this year, that it will be for next spring.

I did prune him a little, like those branches or twigs that were in the way, crossing eachother or starting to get a bit yellow in order to push him to start growing but so far no luck.

Ilya11

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2022, 05:08:43 PM »
Ilya, is the precocious Poncirus also flowering as early as on its own roots when grafted on standard Pt? If I remember right @Till told me that grafted precocious Pt isn`t flowering for him. What is your experience with this?
Small poncirus in general are slow growing outdoors for me. Only in the greenhouse they grow sufficiently. But even my grafted precocious Pt does not bloom in the greenhouse.
Mikkel, sorry for the late answer. In my experience on the regular PT roots it is flowering profusely, but fruiting is rather sparce. I also have this FF variety grafted on clementine. After an initial growth it shedded all the leafs and is not growing already for three years.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

vnomonee

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2022, 02:23:25 PM »
If you haven't already, try taking a cutting from your main plant and rooting it as a backup or to give a chance to grow fresh roots.

This FFT cutting started growing leaves very quickly inside my fish tank where I root cuttings outside in the shade and now has roots!

The main plant still has no leaves but I took it out a of the pot a few days ago hit it with rooting hormone and stuck it back in the pot inside the fish tank, now it's finally swelling buds even without roots! go figure lol so my guess is there is something going on with your root system probably not taking up water and I would check for rot.







hardyvermont

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Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2022, 12:47:58 AM »
FFP seem to be sensitive to conditions in a pot.  Maybe it applies to standard Poncirus as well. The ones growing in pots have very few leaves while the ones growing in the ground are fine.  Uneven/incomplete  watering or other stressful conditions could be sending  the message, 'Wait for a more favorable  environment before sending out new growth' 
Can you plant your Poncirus in the ground?