Author Topic: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree  (Read 10370 times)

huertasurbanas

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uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« on: October 09, 2016, 06:54:59 PM »
Hi, I was lucky enought to find a seller that has 2 varieties of uvaia (eugenia pyriformis): one that grows faster, as a tree,





and another one that grows as a smaller bush, it also has much smaller leaves (3cm long vs  8cm long)









Do you grow different uvaias out there? did you saw this difference in varieties?

I tasted the fruits of the tree uvaia (the taller one) and they were very good, sweet, juicy and acid (http://www.huertasurbanas.com/2016/02/09/uvaias-en-febrero/). The others didnt fruited yet.



Don

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2016, 02:08:36 AM »
Hi huertas, I have two types, both given same treatment since germination and from same source but one is very much tree like reaching for the sky. It is producing first flowers for me now. The second is same age but very much compact growth form, it is almost 50cm tall where as the other is abot 1.8m tall. No flowers on the compact form yet but the leaves are very much different as tall one has long leaves about 50-70 mm long while the compact has 25mm leaves. I will try and post photos when I get home tomorrow.

huertasurbanas

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2016, 08:37:36 AM »
Great, Don, you are describing my situation too: I wonder if the fruit would be different, and ... yours are from the same source? but not from the same variety? was it a surprise?

Cassio

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2016, 03:11:43 PM »
The true bush var is the Eugenia Lutescens.
The tree var is the Eugenia Piryformis.

The knowledge base says that Lutescens has smaller fruits, but more sweet.

I have both vars, but my lutescens is flowering for the first time just this year. ;)

huertasurbanas

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2016, 03:13:29 PM »
Cassio! So you are sure these are not the same species? I should call e. lutescens to my bushy uvaias?

http://www.colecionandofrutas.org/eugenialutescens.htm

reading that Helton's page, now I am confused, because my big uvaia with bigger leaves, bears fruits with tiny white hairs as the lutescens... so maybe she was in fact a lutescens... or all my uvaias are lutescens...

" (com forma de ovo, só que a parte mais larga voltada para o ápice), brancas e livres. Os frutos são arredondados medindo 3 a 4 cm de diâmetro com casca amarela e pubescente (coberto de curtos pelos brancos) com polpa doce e saborosa envolvendo 1 ou mais raramente 2 sementes."

and it also grows slowly...

Cassio

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2016, 03:23:55 PM »
Cassio! So you are sure these are not the same species? I should call e. lutescens to my bushy uvaias?

http://www.colecionandofrutas.org/eugenialutescens.htm

reading that Helton's page, now I am confused, because my big uvaia with bigger leaves, bears fruits with tiny white hairs as the lutescens... so maybe she was in fact a lutescens... or all my uvaias are lutescens...

" (com forma de ovo, só que a parte mais larga voltada para o ápice), brancas e livres. Os frutos são arredondados medindo 3 a 4 cm de diâmetro com casca amarela e pubescente (coberto de curtos pelos brancos) com polpa doce e saborosa envolvendo 1 ou mais raramente 2 sementes."

and it also grows slowly...

Yeah, like Helton said. Two vars. My lutescens has smaller leafs, light green color. Piryformis has bigger leafs, dark green. Lutescens grows slowlly, while piryformis is faster ;)
Both are in pots of the same size (50 cm tall, 30 cm in the mouth) and were bought in 2014, from different sellers.

About the fruits size, well, they vary to much, even in the same tree (at least piryformis). From 2,5 cm to 5cm in diameter. ;)
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 03:27:49 PM by Cassio »

huertasurbanas

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2016, 03:37:43 PM »
Also, the pulp of the uvaias I tasted was totally juicy and sweet with some fibers (http://www.huertasurbanas.com/2014/12/30/como-se-llama-la-fruta-que-cayo-del-arbol-hoy/), not firm at all as the image from this e. pyriformis:

http://www.fruitipedia.com/Images%202/Uvalha%20fruits.jpg

is that a sign that my uvaia could be e. lutescens? (they were allways light green, never dark green, and there are some of them that turn red with cold temps, while others never seem to turn red...)

Solko

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2016, 01:46:17 PM »
Cool! Congratulations on getting the new Uvaia's. I had read on the net about the variation in this species, but I am still surprised to see such big differences. Very cool, though, I hope you'll also find different flavors and sizes in their fruits.

I have one seedling Uvaia that is 3 years old and very short and bushy, with short glossy leaves. And I always thought that this was what Uvaia looked like, - all the Brazilian fruits are completely new to me. So I was surprised to see photo's of Uvaia's on this forum with very different leaves. And now I want to collect them all!  :o

Here is a picture of the two I have: the one on the right is 3 years old, with the short glossy leaves, it is barely 30 cm high. The one on the left is one year old and has leaves like I have seen in other pictures.



I guess the one on the left is the same as your tree Uvaia, but my short one still looks different from your bushy one. I noticed that just like mine, your bushy one also makes new pairs of leaves perpendicular to the pair under it (Spiral arrangement). Normal Uvaia seems to have all of them in pairs, but in the same plane (Opposite arrangement). Although this is not really a strong habit in my bushy one, maybe 60% of the leaves ar spiral, 40% opposite. The leaves of both have never turned red, even in frost.


huertasurbanas

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2016, 11:35:14 AM »
Congrats for your uvaias, to me, they are difficult to grow when babies. The glossy one looks strange to me. I agree about the colour fact: mines never turned red, till now I got these new ones and a particular one.

I think I will plant some with nice shade, maybe 100% shadow, because in full sun tend tu suffer a bit...

Cassio

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2016, 07:03:25 AM »
Also, the pulp of the uvaias I tasted was totally juicy and sweet with some fibers (http://www.huertasurbanas.com/2014/12/30/como-se-llama-la-fruta-que-cayo-del-arbol-hoy/), not firm at all as the image from this e. pyriformis:

http://www.fruitipedia.com/Images%202/Uvalha%20fruits.jpg

is that a sign that my uvaia could be e. lutescens? (they were allways light green, never dark green, and there are some of them that turn red with cold temps, while others never seem to turn red...)

I never saw an uvaia with a firm pulp like that! All that I know has the same appearance as yours.
And you´re in lucky! No fruit flies.

There is an uvaia var known as ingabaú, which is said to produce sweet fruits: http://frutasrarasadhemar.blogspot.com.br/2016/07/eugenia-beaurepairiana-uvaia-do.html. But yours don´t looks like that.

huertasurbanas

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2016, 07:31:08 AM »
Cassio: it's strange, out backyard use to be very attacked by fruit flies (arazá rojo, guavas, feijoas, plums, etc.), but they never attack my uvaias... rare. It's sweet, so must be lutescens or a cross or another thing.

Cassio

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2016, 10:56:24 AM »
Cassio: it's strange, out backyard use to be very attacked by fruit flies (arazá rojo, guavas, feijoas, plums, etc.), but they never attack my uvaias... rare. It's sweet, so must be lutescens or a cross or another thing.

It´s really unespected! Fruit flies loves uvaias. You´re a lucky man!

huertasurbanas

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2016, 01:24:58 PM »
By the way, te pregunto esto en castellano porque en inglés no lo sé: ¿has notado que las uvaias -al menos esta de la cual hablo, plantada en el jardín- suelen mover sus hojas en momentos de mucho sol, sobre todo al mediodía? Las disponen paradas, verticalmente. Dejan de estar horizontales y se ponen todas apuntando al cielo. ¿Será una forma de protegerse de los rayos solares fuertes?

Have you noticed that -at least this of which I speak, planted in the garden- usually move their leaves in times of much sun, especially at midday ? The leaves stay vertically. They are no longer horizontal and start pointing to the sky. Would it be a way to protect against strong sunlight?

Don

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2016, 07:56:36 AM »




Hope the photo is clear enough to see the difference of tree type and my bush type. both turned up as seeds from Ricardo at same time. great little trees.

huertasurbanas

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2016, 06:27:49 PM »
Hi, I found this interesting post:

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/193372/#b

they call it eugenia pyriformis var argentea... so I should have that, I believe... also, when they talk about frost hardiness, it is what I believe this species should resist:

Hardiness:

USDA Zone 9a: to -6.6 °C (20 °F)
USDA Zone 9b: to -3.8 °C (25 °F)
USDA Zone 10a: to -1.1 °C (30 °F)
USDA Zone 10b: to 1.7 °C (35 °F)
USDA Zone 11: above 4.5 °C (40 °F)

a person wrote:

"On Aug 18, 2010, Kalpavriksha from Sarasota, FL wrote:

I was given a seedling of this plant to plant at my mom's in central Florida. 10 yrs later I was being asked what this fruit tree was?. It was a cold hardy, winter-deciduous, crepe myrtle sized tree that dropped its golden fruit all at once. The fruit taste resembled apricot.
If the fruits were not gathered, a single large stone remained."

Cassio

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2016, 09:24:11 AM »
By the way, te pregunto esto en castellano porque en inglés no lo sé: ¿has notado que las uvaias -al menos esta de la cual hablo, plantada en el jardín- suelen mover sus hojas en momentos de mucho sol, sobre todo al mediodía? Las disponen paradas, verticalmente. Dejan de estar horizontales y se ponen todas apuntando al cielo. ¿Será una forma de protegerse de los rayos solares fuertes?

Have you noticed that -at least this of which I speak, planted in the garden- usually move their leaves in times of much sun, especially at midday ? The leaves stay vertically. They are no longer horizontal and start pointing to the sky. Would it be a way to protect against strong sunlight?

Yes, Marcos. I noticed this. Pitangas can do the same, pointing their leafs down sometimes. I think it is indeed a way to protect against strong sunlight. :)

huertasurbanas

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2016, 12:57:05 PM »
The problem is: are uvaias happy in full full sun or taking the hot sun of the afternoon on summer? I am starting to believe they really dont like it... at least this variety... 2.5m tall

huertasurbanas

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2016, 07:46:47 PM »
I think I found another eugenia lutescens lost into my poted plants

Now I see it very clear, take a look at this 2

one of them stays small, the leaves are very near and short, 5.5cm long, new sprouts are a bit pink, not brown like the other. This could be eugenia lutescens.







the other uvaias (eugenia pyriformis), taller ones, use to be bigger and growing faster, bigger leaves too: 9cm long, and new sprouts are brown, not pinkish.










sube

huertasurbanas

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2016, 07:58:37 AM »
In this photo I found at pinterest, you can notice the very small white hairs in the fruit of eugenia lutescens (I think there is no better photo on the net), this is what I ate from a planted tree at my backyard.

subir imagenes gratis

Solko

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2016, 01:29:56 PM »
Hi Marcos,

I found this website that has pictures of the fruit of 4 different varieties of Uvaia next to each other. The owner of the website says that they have twenty different varieties of Uvaia!

http://www.todafruta.com.br/uvaia/

Solko

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2016, 01:39:50 PM »
By the way, with that many varieties and different forms of Uvaia, I don't know if the scientific determination of the different subspecies has clear delineations. The botanical determination of a species by macroscopic outward traits could leave a few of the plants you have shown somewhere in the middle...

Do you - or anyone else - know what characteristics to look for, of a key to determine which subspecies you have?

huertasurbanas

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2016, 08:49:58 PM »
Hi Marcos,

I found this website that has pictures of the fruit of 4 different varieties of Uvaia next to each other. The owner of the website says that they have twenty different varieties of Uvaia!

http://www.todafruta.com.br/uvaia/

Yes, it is amazing, I read that article a mont ago, impressive

Cassio

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2016, 06:59:20 AM »
By the way, with that many varieties and different forms of Uvaia, I don't know if the scientific determination of the different subspecies has clear delineations. The botanical determination of a species by macroscopic outward traits could leave a few of the plants you have shown somewhere in the middle...

There´s a person that lives in the city of Arthur Nogueira, here in São Paulo, who claims to have 30 (!!!) different vars of uvaia. I have 2: the one that becomes a tree (piryformis) and the dwarf var (lutescens). I have piryformis sucsessfully fruiting in a pot of 40cmx30cm since two years. Lutescens is in a pot of the same size, flowering for the first time since I bought her. And this week I received 06 seeds of the giant uvaia. :)
I´m still seeking for seeds of the Eugenia beaurepairiana, another named var.

Do you - or anyone else - know what characteristics to look for, of a key to determine which subspecies you have?

Sometimes they are so subtle, that I can´t recognize the differences even when someone is pointing them to me. I think that some "vars", are hard to prove the existence.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 07:02:27 AM by Cassio »

huertasurbanas

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2016, 08:35:54 AM »
Cassio, get those 30 varieties for us! hey, what would be a giant uvaia? big tree or big fruit? size?

Cassio

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Re: uvaia that stays as a bush, vs uvaia as a tree
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2016, 10:04:58 AM »
Cassio, get those 30 varieties for us! hey, what would be a giant uvaia? big tree or big fruit? size?

Will be hard to get all of those 30 vars! ;D
By giant uvaia I´m talking about the fruit´s size. I have a photo and later I will show you. ;)