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Messages - mikkel

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1
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Experience with Ichangponsuma
« on: November 12, 2025, 03:19:18 PM »
I’ve heard and seen otherwise. The plants, especially in the northern german stock, still had Tintori labels on them. Those Tahizu from Tintori were then resold there as Yuzu.
It may be that Lubera is building up its own propagation, but that is currently not yet the case everywhere. Be that as it may, reselling is not a bad thing – it’s actually quite common. It only gets annoying when plants are sold under the wrong name, but that does happen.

My point is that Lubera has no first-hand experience with winter hardiness, cultivation and so on; they’ve simply copied this information.

And in my quick Google search I couldn’t find any minimum temperatures of -15 °C for IxPxS as stated by Lubera. It’s possible that someone reported this once, but without knowing the exact circumstances it’s quite bold to adopt such (maximum) figures when the general reports tend towards lower frost hardiness (in the sense of warmer degrees) . But Lubera is not alone in this either – Quissac is also at the very top when it comes to minimum temperature claims…

2
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Experience with Ichangponsuma
« on: November 11, 2025, 12:41:21 PM »
This description of Lubera has simply been copied from elsewhere. Lubera does not grow anything itself, but only sells goods from other nurseries, mainly Tintori, but recently also varieties of Eisenhut (although it is unclear where they get these plants from).
In any case, the name Ichangponsuma is a creation by Lubera....

I x P x S can be found at
Eisenhut
https://www.eisenhut.ch/en/product/18773
Tintori:
https://www.oscartintori.it/en/prodotto/c-ichangensis-x-poncirus-x-satzuma/
Lari
https://www.floricolturalari.com/prodotto/ichangensis-x-poncirus-x-satsuma-citrus-ichangensis-x-poncirus-trifoliata-x-citrus-unshiu/?v=5f02f0889301

There are some promising reports about IxPxS, so I think you simply have to give it a try.

3
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The Citrus I have
« on: November 10, 2025, 01:27:14 PM »
Last year, I harvested fruits that were sweet but a little watery, so the taste was a little bland, but definitely sweet.
I wonder what the reason is for yours being sour...?

4
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Frost hardy citrus in Poland, zone 6
« on: October 31, 2025, 03:33:59 PM »
In 2015, I received fruit from Karel. He didn't tell me where it came from, but it seemed to be from his own tree.

5
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Frost hardy citrus in Poland, zone 6
« on: October 30, 2025, 02:36:27 PM »
This year, I have the first ripening fruits of Poncirus from Karel Mundl.

How did you like the fruit? I tried the fruit once, but I don't remember if it was different from other Poncirus fruits.

6
Are the fruits ripe now?

7
No one is claiming that these are fake varieties, no one is claiming that the plants are guaranteed to be diseased.
No one is saying that you don't deliver good quality.
The point is: it is not legal to import these varieties into the EU.
The buyer then bears the possible consequences of this.


8
Just to be clear this is the legal situation:

(everyone take his decisions and maybe you have just luck)
 

At the EU border, checks are compulsory.
Any plants coming from outside the EU must enter via an EU Border Control Post (BCP) and get document, identity, and physical checks.

Who is the importer?
The person the parcel is addressed to is treated as the “operator responsible for the consignment.” A seller or “middleman” in the EU doesn’t change that if the box ships to you directly from a non-EU country.

Pre-notify in TRACES (CHED-PP).
Before arrival, the operator responsible must file an online Common Health Entry Document for Plants & Plant Products (CHED-PP) in the EU’s TRACES system and present the parcel at a BCP.

If something’s wrong, you pay.
If the consignment fails the checks (wrong papers, pests, wrong routing, etc.), authorities can order destruction or special treatment and bill the operator responsible for the costs.

Phytosanitary certificate is mandatory.
Plants for planting must be accompanied by a valid phytosanitary certificate; only a few narrowly defined items are exempt.

Some plants are classed “high-risk.”
The EU keeps a High-Risk Plants list that are temporarily banned from import until a risk assessment is done. That is the case with Citrus.

Bottom line:
Even with an EU “middleman,” if the parcel ships directly from China to you, you are the importer. Without BCP entry, CHED-PP, and a valid phytosanitary certificate, the shipment will be stopped and usually destroyed at your expense, and you can face national penalties on top.

e.g. Germany: fines up to €50,000.
If you break plant-health rules, German law allows administrative fines up to €50k (on top of losing the goods).

9
You misunderstand the issue. No one is saying that the plants are diseased, but they could be, which is precisely why there are laws regulating imports.
A phytosanitary certificate is there precisely to rule out possible infections.
The fact that it is completely prohibited to import citrus fruits into the EU is very annoying, and it is also debatable whether it really has to be an import ban, but that is the legal situation.
That simply has to be said.
And once again, plants from China are not always infected, but without a plant inspection (phytosanitary inspection), it can happen.

10
Hypothetically speaking, a phytosanitary certificate is mandatory, even within Europe. A phytosanitary certificate is not an optional service; it is a prerequisite for selling plants.
But in this case it is theory, because it is generally strictly prohibited to import citrus fruits into the EU in any form other than as fruit; even pollen is officially not allowed. There are also no exemptions. The same applies to the USA.
Even citrus institutes have virtually no way of exchanging material with each other. (I speak from personal experience.)

This does not mean that it cannot be sent from China, as customs does not check everything. But it is not legal.

And honestly, the risk of introducing citrus greening to Europe is not worth it.

11
Do you also provide a phythosanitary Certificate ?
Are these CTV / Tristeza tested and free of it?

12
Hi Luis, of course—grafted trees fruit earlier because they’re already mature; seedlings take much longer.

13
I have no experience with maxima seedlings myself , but I have heard that they take longer to mature than other citrus fruits, sometimes up to 30 years. The climate could also play a role, of course.

14
It's very interesting that this hybrid combination flowers after only 5 years, as Maxima tends to be very slow to flower for the first time.
Have you made similar observations with other Genova hybrids?

15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: October 10, 2025, 02:28:53 AM »
In my experience, when Ichangensis is used as the pollen donor, the seed parent tends to produce zygotic seeds. This is only an observation, but it seems worth investigating.

16
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Polyfoliate Swingle Citrumelo
« on: October 02, 2025, 02:18:38 AM »
If this mutation proves to be stable, it would really be great. Normally, most breeders aim to move away from trifoliate traits toward monofoliate ones, but to me a polyfoliate leaf also has its own appeal.
Perhaps it could be useful to preserve the polyfoliate sections by grafting them as separate plants? Just as a hypothesis: if the polyfoliation were limited to a single bud, further cultivation of that specific bud might allow the trait to be reinforced. The mother plant, on the other hand, might eventually produce normal buds again and lose the characteristic.
But as I said, this is just a hypothesis without knowing the deeper background.

17
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Frost hardy citrus in Poland, zone 6
« on: August 11, 2025, 04:18:36 PM »
Very impressive!
I wonder about the other parent of the 899O/Q seedlings. Such narrow, elongated leaves are quite unusual for most Poncirus hybrids.
I have the feeling I’ve seen these traits before, but I just can’t recall where.
Do you have any idea?

18
How do you protect the plants during winter?

19
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Poncirus Polyandra
« on: August 08, 2025, 05:01:56 AM »
No, P.polyandra is definitely not a subspecies of trifoliata.


I cannot find a picture of my plant at the moment but this is a picture of the mother plant, where mine comes from.



20
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Side effects of Acidless gene
« on: August 08, 2025, 04:55:39 AM »
the specific answer is written here, one only need to read it :)

Terol, J., Naranjo, M. A., Ollitrault, P., & Talon, M. (2010). The aconitate hydratase family from Citrus. BMC Plant Biology, 10, 222. https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-2229-10-222

21
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: July 28, 2025, 12:49:56 AM »

 The mini-Conestoga is precocious both as a seedling, as well as a grafted plant.

That's interesting.

22
For a well-balanced flavor, a certain amount of acidity is essential in fruit—perhaps slightly less than in oranges—but the complete absence of acidity makes them taste rather bland; the comparison to sugar water is quite accurate. It’s easy to test whether you like it. :)

Mandarins have a more pronounced sweetness and less noticeable acidity in the fruit.  Maybe this is a better choice?

The nursery Eisenhut also has Dolce Lemon, it is also named in the Citrus book by B.Voss
https://www.eisenhut.ch/de/shop/citrus-limon-dolce-z15_z15

23
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Side effects of Acidless gene
« on: July 25, 2025, 05:38:22 PM »
Acidless citrus varieties do initially synthesize citric acid during early fruit development. In certain acidless cultivars such as Sucreña, this acid is subsequently broken down through elevated activity of aconitase enzymes, as demonstrated by increased expression of CcAco1 and CcAco2 (Terol et al., 2010).

Therefore, there is no net energy saving associated with the acidless phenotype. On the contrary, there may be an additional metabolic cost due to the energy required for both the synthesis and later degradation of citric acid.


Terol, J., Naranjo, M. A., Ollitrault, P., & Talon, M. (2010). The aconitate hydratase family from Citrus. BMC Plant Biology, 10, 222. https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-2229-10-222


24
That's exactly what I had in mind. These monogenic models are useful as a conceptual guide, but in reality, the process is unpredictable. In the end, it's a numbers game — and a matter of time.

25
These schematic considerations have been on my mind for a long time, and I can’t seem to find a proper solution. But if things really work this schematically, it would mean that you can only achieve winter-hardy hybrids by crossing the F1 generation among themselves (possibly crossing different F1 lines might also work). That way, it could be possible to obtain winter-hardy F2 individuals.

So far, so simple. But things get complicated when it comes to additional traits. For edible fruits, this crossing scheme would have to be repeated—but then the winter hardiness would be lost again. Only if you managed to create a Poncirus trifoliata hybrid with edible fruit that simultaneously carries a single set of the winter-hardiness genes, would there be a chance to produce another winter-hardy generation, which in turn would only carry a single set of genes for edibility. This would again require another generation.

It is absolutely crucial to stick to the plan and carry it out for each citrus type (mandarin, orange, etc.) in parallel.
And the whole thing only works if the inheritance really is that simple and genetically determined.

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