In search of the mysterious 'Ficus 52406' from North Queensland, Australia

[Galatians522]

For anyone who is interested in this fig thread, I believe that I know where the elusive ficus SPI 52406 can be found. According to the USDA website, it is still maintained at the germplasm collection in Miami. At some point, they dropped the s at the beginning and it is now just PI 52406. As Mike predicted, it was finally identified as Ficus racemosa.

https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1108318

Here is a link to the Florida Horticultural Society Article that Craig referenced.

https://journals.flvc.org/fshs/article/view/103230/99158

And my final proof, here is the original description for PI 52406 as attached to the USDA page I liked above. You will notice that the description in the article is a direct quotation from this description.

https://www.ars-grin.gov/npgs/pi_books/scans/66/pi066_025.pdf

Now the catch, is there anyone associated with a research team or university that could request this material for distribution to the forum? USDA no longer honors private requests.

[Epiphyte]

Galatians522, nice detective work.  i did some digging and found this passage from Ira Condit's 1947 book "the fig"...

The principal interest in stocks for figs is directed to securing one resistant to root troubles, especially that caused by the root-knot nematode. No variety of the Ficus carica complex has so far been found which shows sufficient resistance to or immunity from root-knot to warrant using it as a stock. One species, however, has been found which does show immunity to nematode attacks. It was introduced from Australia by the United States Department of Agriculture under P. I. No. 52406 and was later identified as Ficus glomerata.  Common figs grafted on this stock in Florida grew vigorously at first but later died out. The stock is tender, leaves being injured by only 4 or 5 degrees of frost. For these reasons interest in this species as a possible stock has abated.

eh, that's confusing. 

in any case, it would be curious if a variety of ficus racemosa in australia was noticeably more graft compatible with carica than other varieties of racemosa.  this would imply that the australian variety was a lot more closely related to carica than say the indian variety?  this would indicate that either the australian racemosa or the other racemosas should be a different species. 

i have a bunch of small seedling racemosas from seed that i purchased on ebay.  no idea which variety of racemosa the seeds are from.  i also have a 3' ficus racemosa that i bought as a noid.  back in may, when i had no idea what it was, i grafted 3 small twigs from it onto my neighbor's big carica.  the scions didn't do anything and i assumed they failed, but last week i noticed that 1 of the scions put out a couple of small leaves.  i'm not sure what it means when it takes so long for a scion to push.  maybe it was just because the scions were so small. 

here are most of the ficus that i've tried grafting onto carica (all done this year) for the purpose of discerning compatibility/relatedness, ranked from 0 (fail) to 10 (success)...

ficus afghanistanica - 10
ficus auriculata - 1, surprising result given that it's been crossed with carica
ficus cocculifolia - 7?
ficus coronata - ?, recent graft
ficus dammaropsis - 2
ficus deltoidea - ?, recent graft
ficus erecta - 8, not very surprising since it's been crossed with carica
ficus formosana - 9
ficus gasparriniana - 4
ficus aff heterophylla - 9, looks closer to palmata
ficus ingens - 0
ficus lutea - 0
ficus opposita - 9
ficus palmata (hybrid?) - 10
ficus racemosa - ?
ficus sycomorus - 9
ficus sur - 1
ficus tannoensis - 10
ficus tikoua - 0
ficus umbellata - 1
ficus vaccinioides - 9
ficus vasta - 0

if you're signed into ourfigs you can see some pics here... ficus carica's closest relatives in taiwan?

not sure why i haven't tried pumila.  perhaps because i already know it's graft and cross compatible? 

the 1st time i saw the cross between pumila and carica it blew my mind.  they seem so completely different.  i still trip out when i look at vaccinioides happily growing on carica. 

i spend all my time comparing my preliminary results to the ficus family tree, for example... phylogenetic reconstruction of ficus subg. synoecia and its allies (moraceae), with implications on the origin of the climbing habit.  honestly i'm not exactly sure how they create the cladogram.  yeah they use genetics, but...

x = cladogram created using genetics
y = cladogram created using grafting

how much of a difference will there be between x and y? 

in terms of nematodes, even if it is the case that vaccinioides is super compatible with carica, it probably wouldn't be very practical to use vaccinioides as a rootstock.  but if vaccinioides and carica can be crossed, then perhaps the hybrid might work as a rootstock.  and perhaps a backcross might work even better as a rootstock.  then again, perhaps the backcross would have even tastier fruit than carica does. 

having spent a considerable amount of time looking at the available ficus cladograms i'm under the impression that quite a few hybrids can, and should, be made with carica. 

i recently tried injecting ficus fraseri pollen into carica, specifically fignomenal, using the syringe method.  i'm not holding my breath.  so far i harvested a couple figs.  they had spoiled, but had a decent amount of seeds that sank, but it's only been around a week since i attempted to pollinate them, so i'm guessing that fraseri isn't the daddy.  at least it will be interesting to see how many, if any, of the seedlings inherit the dwarfing and everbearing traits of fignomenal.

naturally we should try to develop the best tasting ficus for growing epiphytically.  that's one way to deal with nematodes. 

a couple ficus species that i'd suggest testing for carica compatibility are ficus montana and ficus ischnopoda.  both are available from the fairchild botanic garden.  hmmm... ficus sagittata and ficus villosa might also be compatible with carica.  they should be tested as well.  i already have both though but neither is quite large enough to easily graft onto a carica.

here we are now, seemingly so modern, until we truly fathom that the surface has been just barely scratched in terms of fig progress.  i think condit deserves credit for 1st crossing pumila and carica?  he made the cross decades ago.  i somehow missed the memo for most of my life.  we can't stand on shoulders whose existence we are unaware of.  this is how and why progress goes... bonk. the solution, as i've mentioned previously, is to use donations (to this forum) to prioritize forum threads. 

[Galatians522]

 Thanks for the insight. I won't go into too much detail, but I thought that might be the case. However, some sources say that the incompatibility arose because the evergreen roots starved when the scion went dormant. This could very possibly be solved by leaving a "nurse branch" on the rootstock to keep it alive when the top is dormant. It also stands to reason that the more graft compatible cultivars of racemosa would be the best place to start hybridization attempts. Ultimately, I think the permanent solution to the root knot issue will be a hybrid ficus. In the mean time I think this rootstock has lots of promise. Since the grafted trees were reported to have produced as many as 100 figs in the first year, the grafted plants could be produced annually or maintained with nurse branches to prevent the roots from dying off. It is very interesting to me that there are some reports on this thread that trees can live for several seasons (with dwarfed growth) on oppositifolia. That fig is reported to be semi-deciduous in its native environment due to droughts.

[Epiphyte]

in this ourfigs thread... RKN battle Cont. - Update of F. Sycomorus... in the 1st post there's a pic of a carica happily growing grafted onto a sycomorous.  it probably isn't a coincidence that there are a few nurse branches on the sycomorous. 

a while back i did a decent amount of digging to find examples of deciduous trees grafted onto evergreen rootstocks.  i didn't find many.  seems like the consensus is that evergreen rootstocks need a continual supply of energy in order to stay alive, which is possible with the use of nurse branches, as you mentioned. 

in this other oufigs thread... Suggestions for Determining Nematode Resistance of F. Palmata Rootstock... in the 11th post there are some pics of a carica scion starting to grow on an opposita.  there are quite a few nurse branches, but not sure how many, if any, are needed, since opposita can go deciduous, as you pointed out. 

my best guess is that the more graft compatible a ficus species is with carica, the higher the likelihood that they can be crossed.  hopefully some of my more compatible ficus will produce figs next year. 

[Galatians522]

 Interesting stuff. I have never spent much time on that forum.

[pagnr]

"A large clean tree with fruit of fine delicate sweet flavor and size of a black Smyrna fig, only more rounded and dark crimson when ripe."

Interesting that this doesn't clearly ring bells.
Cluster Fig sounds pretty close by size and colour. Flavour is OK too.
Sandpaper Fig seem closer to domestic figs, but I have never seen red fruit, and they are smaller fruited than carica.
Going by the above description, you could eliminate a good 35 to 40 of the 45 Australian Ficus.
That leaves the most likely candidates for you to experiment with.

[Galatians522]

"A large clean tree with fruit of fine delicate sweet flavor and size of a black Smyrna fig, only more rounded and dark crimson when ripe."

Interesting that this doesn't clearly ring bells.
Cluster Fig sounds pretty close by size and colour. Flavour is OK too.
Sandpaper Fig seem closer to domestic figs, but I have never seen red fruit, and they are smaller fruited than carica.
Going by the above description, you could eliminate a good 35 to 40 of the 45 Australian Ficus.
That leaves the most likely candidates for you to experiment with.

Suposedly it is a variety of cluster fig that is more compatible with common fig. However, it is different enough from the typical cluster fig that it took close to 70 years to get that ID. So, maybe its a sub-species?

[pagnr]

Have you tried investigating the accession number. Ficus 52406 might have other records, like introduction information.

I have tried quite a few Australian Rainforest Figs, this doesn't really ring a bell.
If it was that good, it might be better known.

[Galatians522]

Have you tried investigating the accession number. Ficus 52406 might have other records, like introduction information.

I have tried quite a few Australian Rainforest Figs, this doesn't really ring a bell.
If it was that good, it might be better known.

I did look at any information attached to the assession number. There was very little, just the introduction info in the PDF in one of the links I posted above. Are any of the Australian figs worth growing for their fruit in your opinion?

[pagnr]

Sorry I missed that from your earlier post.
I enjoyed racemosa cluster fig, faint strawberry flavour, like a strawberry cookie. I thought NSW sandpaper figs are nice. If I remember, Deciduous Fig was ok, Moreton Bay was ok, but a few are enough. Not sure any come near Ficus carica in flavour.

[Mike T]

It will be F.coronata and I recently pulled one out as it was too vigorous

[pagnr]

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=636115795294385&set=a.440980541474579
Variegated Fig (Ficus variegata). The figs change from green to red as they mature and feed many species of birds and bats.
The figs grow on or close to the tree trunk, a feature termed cauliflory.

[Galatians522]

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=636115795294385&set=a.440980541474579

Wow! That is amazing!

[David H]

Does anyone have more information on how Ficus coronata has performed as a rootstock for F. carica ?    Also,are trees on F.opposita and F.racemosa still growing and fruiting well?
 I was going to try F.carica on F. coronata , so any information about compatibility and performance would be appreciated.

[Mike T]

I should have grafted brown turkey on my coronata instead of pulling it out as it was too vigorous. The fruit were like small genuine figs. The 2 mentioned sandpaper figs are quite similar and range across many climates. Racemosa won't work and they are a huge tree nothing like carica.

[David H]

Thanks for your reply,   Mike T.   I think coronata will probably work, but I haven't tried it yet.   One of the comments above gives a table where they have tried coronata, but the result wassn't known when they posted the comment.  I thought that maybe that person  or someone else might have some definite information.   Re. F. racemosa, I don't see how you can be so certain that it won't work.  As well as the info in the comments above, I have a couple of references here that state that itis used in India .  It is naturally deciduous in some regions
with a more severe dry season than Cairns.  Sure ,it can grow very large, but you need to remember that when you are in the world of rootstocks,and the cultural conditions given to  the species in question, it's a whole other can of worms.  F.racemosa bonsais well.  Potential for container culture in some nematode problem regions ?   How large would the species grow when it's grafted to F. carica ?   Would there be  severe problems with rootstock  overgrowth ?  The fact that F. racemosa has been used as a rootstock in India for so long makes me think that it can't be too problematic. The performance of rootstocks can be surprising.  For example,  Tamarillo here on S. mauritianum grows to about the same size as Tamarillo on it's own roots, with the mauritianum rootstock only slightly overgrowing, with no long-term incompatibility..  Eggplant on S. mauritianum here grows well, yet the plant and rootstock stays small, with little overgrowth.  Anyway, I might try a plant of it as well, so we'll see.   All the best to you.

[Mike T]

Thanks David and Ficus racemosa is quite widespread in Australia and does extend into more seasonal areas. Ecologically it is a world away from Ficus carica and in the genetically quite removed subgenus Oreosycea. The sandpaper figs like coronata in the sub genus Asperae are also clades away and tens of millions of years apart from clade Caricae occupied by F.carica. So what you may say but relatedness is the key to grafting compatability and the Family Moraceae is notoriously fickle with grafting. The good news is that Ficus carica does have a close relative in Africa and bits of the middle east called Ficus palmata in the same sub genus. Now that would be worth a shot.

[Mike T]

Ok I just looked at the thread past again and the outcome of those grafts in Cairns would be interesting. The relatedness scores out of 10 doesn't seem to stack up well with Ficus phylogeny I looked at. F.palmata is a real species alright.

[Galatians522]

Looks like there are presumed hubrids between F. carica and F. palmata. So, there seems to be a good chance that they are graft compatible. All this makes one wonder if there are nematode resistant strains of F. palmata or if it could be used as an interstock to more nematode resistant figs (such as F. sycomorus) since it has likely not been tested as extensively as F. carica.

[Epiphyte]

palmata might be too closely related to carica to be resistant to nematodes.  then again, maybe what people are growing as palmata are actually hybrids with carica.  then again, not sure where palmata would grow in the wild that it could avoid being naturally crossed with carica. 

this cladogram is worth taking a look at.

ficus racemosa is monoecious and distant from carica on the cladogram.  then again, rubiginosa is close to carica on the cladogram, but i'm guessing that nothing in urostigma is compatible with carica.  actually i might as well try grafting rubiginosa onto carica.  the two urostigmas i tried, umbellata and lutea, are a lot more distant from carica on the cladogram. 

last year i grafted 2 small twigs of racemosa onto my neighbor's giant carica.  the twigs didn't do anything for the longest time and finally they leafed out and kinda started growing.  but then they died in the fall.  the mother plant has done incredibly well outside over the winter.  i'm getting the feeling that the neighbor's carica isn't the best rootstock, maybe because it's so big that it could care less about a couple twigs.  so i'll try racemosa again but this time on my friend's male carica. 

racemosa seems to grow pretty easily from cuttings.  i might try approach grafting a rooted cutting of racemosa onto a carica seedling. 

it's so funny that ficus villosa is right next to carica on the cladogram.  i'm sure it wouldn't be if all 800 species were on the cladogram, but it's closer than pumila and erecta, both of which have been crossed with carica.  i have villosa in a greenhouse growing epiphytically on a few mounts.  it's been growing slow since i'm sure it's a hemiepiphyte and would be a lot happier to have some roots in a pot.  maybe i'll put all of its mounts on pots and see if that speeds it up.  or something.  i'd definitely love trying to graft it and cross it with carica.  i can't imagine what the cross would look like.  could i grow it outside year around?  how would the fruit taste? 

on facebook, in the ficus study group, i posted a link to my palm talk ficus hybridization thread.  a fellow replied with a pic he took at raulston arboretum of ficus sarmentosa var. nipponica x ficus carica.  i'm not surprised that such a cross is possible because on the cladogram sarmentosa is closer to carica than pumila and erecta.  of course i'm surprised that someone made the cross. 

i haven't managed to track down a source for sarmentosa.  i do have ficus vaccinioides, which is another climber, and it's done surprisingly well grafted onto carica.  it's so tiny though that grafting it is challenging.  either i have super grafting skills or it's so compatible with carica that it needs barely any contact to establish.

vaccinioides isn't included in the cladogram i shared above, but here it is on this cladogram... Phylogenetic reconstruction of Ficus subg. Synoecia and its allies (Moraceae), with implications on the origin of the climbing habit.  in this more zoomed in view, we can see a lot of species between villosa and carica.  strangely enough, in this cladogram, ficus religiosa is only a few species away from carica, probably because this area is zoomed out.  but it's another long shot graft that i'd like to try. 

in my facebook post some genius commented... "Why intentionally encourage such a thing ? Especially in an already confusing complex Genus. Nature absolutely and definitely already “gives enough varieties”. No doubt about that".  i replied, "how many species of ficus can your friend in germany grow outside year around?"  no response. 

how many delicious ficus species can be grown in the ground in florida and other tropical places?  not enough.  never enough. 

i love nature, but there's definitely so much room for improvement.  anybody who doesn't see this is blind and/or dumb.  hybridizing ficus can greatly improve the genus in every way possible.  let's go!!

[David H]

I have small plants of what are supposed to be F.palmata and carica x palmata. Both are supposed to have better  resistance to  root-knot nematodes.  We have F. opposita growing through the forest here.  I have a graft of  the F.carica X palmata growing well on F.opposita, but onlty a few months old.  The plant sold in Australia as "Diggers Purple Heart ",(refers to the heart-shaped leaf and purple fruit ) is supposed to be F. palmata.   I don't know how thoroughly that has been checked out.  Thanks for the information.

[Epiphyte]

David H, please let us know if your palmata and carica x palmata do end up being more nematode resistant than carica. 

i'm guessing that you don't have the carica wasp there?  you should really try putting the opposita pollen onto carica.  that would be so awesome if it was successful.  i'm going to try the same cross as well, but it's a little tricky since we have the carica wasp here.  i have to figure out the optimal time to bag the figs.  too early and it could hinder the fig development.  too late and a wasp could beat me to it. 

[David H]

I'll keep that in mind, Epiphyte. No carica wasp here. F.opposita is dioecious. I haven't pollinated figs before, so I'll have to read up about it.  I just noticed that you were the person who posted the list of graft trials, with the coronata with a question mark after it.  Did the graft work, and is it still growing o.k. ?

[Epiphyte]

David H, there's a decent amount of info on fig pollination via syringe on the ourfigs forum.  basically you harvest the ripe male figs from ficus opposita.  then you cut them in half and tap out the pollen.  lastly you mix the pollen into some water, put it in a syringe with a larger gauge needle, and inject the solution into female figs of ficus carica.  voila!  hybrids! 

the coronata grafts didn't make it, probably because i attempted them too late in the year, it was the end of august.  the following month i tried some formosana grafts onto carica and they didn't make it either, even though they are definitely compatible.  i'd be surprised if coronata and carica weren't compatible, given that coronata and opposita are so similar, and opposita is compatible with carica. 

do you think that coronata and opposita are very similar?  or am i being racist?  i remember my friend being shocked and offended when i told him that all his platycerium bifurcatum varieties looked the same. 

[David H]

Thanks, Epiphyte.  I can read up about the fig pollination, but if you don't mind  giving a bit more information, it would be appreciated.  At what stage of the development of the f.carica fruit do I inject the opposita pollen ?  Is there a short window of receptivity, and if so how do I know when to inject the pollen ?
We con't have F. coronata native to the forest here.  I've had a couple of plants of it growing ( planted by me ) for many years.  No irrigation, and they get through the dry season o.k.
but they've only grown into large shrubs,  Quite healthy and fruit well. The fruit are quite good to eat.  F.opposita forms a palatable fruit as well. The plants are similar, but anyone familiar with both can distinguish them at a glance.  F. opposita has opposite leaves, of course. The fruit are readily distinguished as well  A major Australian nursery  sells a F. coronata
selection that they call "Birds Eye ".  They list it as a selection of F.opposita, so I guess that there is plenty of confusion here as well.