The Tropical Fruit Forum

Citrus => Citrus General Discussion => Topic started by: Millet on April 30, 2020, 09:59:15 PM

Title: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: Millet on April 30, 2020, 09:59:15 PM
For a complete elimination of insects listed below, and for ultra safe personal protection, use a good horticultural oil.  It eliminates most all common insects that attack citrus. Can be sprayed between 32F to 90F.  Insects NEVER become immune, no matter how often or how long horticultural sprays are used.  Be sure to keep ingredients (water & oil) blended while spraying

Insects killed:
Rust mite, red spider mite, scales, white fly, thrips, mealy bug, aphids, Greasy spot, loosening of sooty mold.

Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: Vlad on April 30, 2020, 11:07:24 PM
What concentration oil do you use? Do you use an emulsifier, if so what kind and at what concentration?
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 01, 2020, 01:22:54 AM
Best emulsifier is to mix the oil with dish soap 50/50 and then with water.
If you want a more professional emulsifier then use lecitine.
Beware that horticultural oil can kill or damage a lot of plants .
I never sprayed on citrus but mimosa tree i sprayed lost all its leaves while almond trees had nothing to complain about.


Now i use only soapy water and i completely skipped the oil from the retepy.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: Oolie on May 01, 2020, 04:26:45 AM
I wonder if it has high efficacy against subterranean scale infestations.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: Millet on May 01, 2020, 01:15:42 PM
Vlad the concentration I use is 50 grams (1.8 oz.) per gallon of water.   I have used it both with and without an emulsifying agent.  The emulsifying agent, when used, is Tween 20 (TW-20).  The brand name of the horticultural oil that I always use is Ultra Pure Horticultural Oil.  As a side note, the sprayer I use is a 3-gallon  Solo back Pack sprayer.  Whether I add a emulsifier or not I frequently shake the solution to ensure a uniform blend.  I cannot fully reply to Sea Walnut statement of damage to other trees.  All I can say is that personally I have never seen any damage to any of the varieties that I have sprayed, certainly not citrus.  There are many types of horticultural oils on the market.  Some with grater and lower impurities.  I always purchase Ultra Pure HO, as it is the best of the best.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: Millet on May 01, 2020, 01:18:17 PM
Oolie, what do you mean by the term subterranean scale?  For horticultural oils to work, it has to coat the insect's body.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: Oolie on May 01, 2020, 08:04:38 PM
Understood, the difficulty is getting it to bind to the chitinous body without being impeded by the acidic soil substrate. Horticultural oils unfortunately are also acidic, so they will be impeded by the soil.

I think we may be on the right track though.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 01, 2020, 08:44:01 PM
I simply use cooking oil as horticultural oil,sunflower oil to more exact.
What it does its that it blocks the insect tracheas and they sufocate.
Its logical that no insect can build resistance to this.

But im sure that essential oils wich are basically the plant imune system can be used and be more succesfull than even manny toxic chemicals to kill and prevent pests while at the same time being a natural product.
People use thime oil to kill mites and those big big mites( Ticks) that suck the blood of the dogs and also cause Lime disease if they bite you.
I used Thime oil,mint oil ,lemongrass oil ,to kill pest mites in my beehives without killing the bees.
You could probably use citrus essential oils also and to protect citrus trees.
Essential oils are also deadly and as little as eating a spoon could kill a human but in various retepyes against pest insects you use only a few drops for a litter of water.
Much less than horticultural oil and a small bottle of essential oil lasts a lot.
This i think it could work even for the insects that Ollie is talking about wich i assume they grow on the roots of the plants.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: strom on May 01, 2020, 11:08:00 PM
I did some searching recently for horticultural oil due to bugs on other plants, and it appears to be mineral oil?
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: countryboy1981 on May 01, 2020, 11:33:28 PM
I use spinosad which keeps the population of clm down.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: Oolie on May 02, 2020, 01:12:51 AM
Derp. I forgot about spinosad.

Tolerance building doesn't account for morphological changes that can happen in 2-3 generations in insects which may reproduce multiple times a year. Spinosad may be the ultimate addition to the cocktail.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: containerman on May 02, 2020, 09:34:17 AM
I just picked up a gallon on amazon for $40 shipped. Its 3 tbsp per gallon of water so it should last me a while.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: EricSC on April 09, 2022, 07:42:00 PM
For a complete elimination of insects listed below, and for ultra safe personal protection, use a good horticultural oil.  It eliminates most all common insects that attack citrus. Can be sprayed between 32F to 90F.  Insects NEVER become immune, no matter how often or how long horticultural sprays are used.  Be sure to keep ingredients (water & oil) blended while spraying

Insects killed:
Rust mite, red spider mite, scales, white fly, thrips, mealy bug, aphids, Greasy spot, loosening of sooty mold.

Now all the bugs waked up and come back.   

In use Horticultural oil, I found that it could damage leaves on some plants.   At the same time, the dish detergent can work the same way but much less damages.

My questions are:
1, Will horticultural oil or veg oil deter the CLM moths to lay eggs?
2, Will the soap water or detergent water kill the CLM moths?
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: pagnr on April 10, 2022, 06:28:40 AM
"Whether I add a emulsifier or not I frequently shake the solution to ensure a uniform blend."

I think thats an essential step, add the oil and some water to a jar, shake with lid on to produce a white oil, then add to spray tank and fill to spray level.

Nozzles are important too,  very fine low volume nozzles will give good coverage of foliage with low amount of spray applied.

Oil sprays will burn Citrus leaves at the wrong time in hot climates and under plastic houses.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: brian on April 10, 2022, 12:27:06 PM
This is a reminder to me to try hort oil with diligence this year to see if I can eradicate the mealbug infestation I have been fighting for years.  I was able to get rid of persistent spider mites and cottony cushion scale with pesticides, but nothing works for mealybugs ot seems.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: EricSC on April 10, 2022, 02:05:56 PM
This is a reminder to me to try hort oil with diligence this year to see if I can eradicate the mealbug infestation I have been fighting for years.  I was able to get rid of persistent spider mites and cottony cushion scale with pesticides, but nothing works for mealybugs ot seems.

I have been using dish detergent to remove mealbug spider mites, and scale.  It seems working well, easy to prepare, low cost, and no damage. 
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: EricSC on April 10, 2022, 02:07:15 PM
"Whether I add a emulsifier or not I frequently shake the solution to ensure a uniform blend."

I think thats an essential step, add the oil and some water to a jar, shake with lid on to produce a white oil, then add to spray tank and fill to spray level.

Nozzles are important too,  very fine low volume nozzles will give good coverage of foliage with low amount of spray applied.

Oil sprays will burn Citrus leaves at the wrong time in hot climates and under plastic houses.

Very valuable info.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: Millet on April 10, 2022, 02:31:59 PM
Like Pagnr wrote above, when spraying horticultural oil using a back pack sprayer I shake the sprayer every 2/3 minutes to insure good HO/water distribution.  Over the last 20 years I have never once experienced leaf burning, nor leaf drop.  I wonder if soaps leave a reside?
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: EricSC on April 11, 2022, 06:33:40 PM
Like Pagnr wrote above, when spraying horticultural oil using a back pack sprayer I shake the sprayer every 2/3 minutes to insure good HO/water distribution.  Over the last 20 years I have never once experienced leaf burning, nor leaf drop.  I wonder if soaps leave a reside?

So far, 2% soaps seem doing good.  It eliminated all the aphids on all the plants: citrus new flush, cabbages, and beans.  I even tested it on weeds with all the aphids were dead right way and turned dry/black in 2-3 days.  Not much accumlative effects are seen, and you always can spray water to flush them off.

For Horticultural oil, I might try more. 
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: Malhar on April 12, 2022, 08:11:14 PM
@EricSC, Do you use regular dish washing soap or a specific insecticidal soap?
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: brian on April 12, 2022, 11:14:49 PM
For a non-detergent soap I have always used Dr Bronners soap, however it isn't any cheaper than refined hort oil so I now see no reason to use soap over hort oil.

If you are using Dawn soap or something you already have on hand it is probably okay... but if you are going to buy something I suspect refined hort oil is probably better than non-detergent soap for similar cost.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: EricSC on April 13, 2022, 06:41:50 PM
@EricSC, Do you use regular dish washing soap or a specific insecticidal soap?
Malhar,

I do have insecticidal soap, but for convenience I just used kitchen dish washing detergent (the one "environment friendly" bought from Costco) . It worked well, but you may adjust and test when temperature are different.   Last summer, It did not work to the aphids on my egg plant but damaged the eggplant leaves.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: EricSC on April 13, 2022, 06:43:40 PM
For a non-detergent soap I have always used Dr Bronners soap, however it isn't any cheaper than refined hort oil so I now see no reason to use soap over hort oil.

If you are using Dawn soap or something you already have on hand it is probably okay... but if you are going to buy something I suspect refined hort oil is probably better than non-detergent soap for similar cost.

Agree, I looked for those special soaps but found no advantages
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: Calusa on April 24, 2022, 10:25:33 AM
I'm in 10A - as we approach Summer what temperature range is the cutoff for using oils, and can soaps be used during the hottest part of the hyear?
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: poncirsguy on April 24, 2022, 05:32:29 PM
85F
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: laidbackdood on April 25, 2022, 12:27:22 PM
For a complete elimination of insects listed below, and for ultra safe personal protection, use a good horticultural oil.  It eliminates most all common insects that attack citrus. Can be sprayed between 32F to 90F.  Insects NEVER become immune, no matter how often or how long horticultural sprays are used.  Be sure to keep ingredients (water & oil) blended while spraying

Insects killed:
Rust mite, red spider mite, scales, white fly, thrips, mealy bug, aphids, Greasy spot, loosening of sooty mold.
my biggest problem in western australia is CLM.....they are a right pain....i dont even feed my citrus in autumn because clm will just decimate it...tried eco oil and neem oil and they just treat new growth like CLM candy........spring is where its at for me..before they turn up...they love the urea apparently.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: Oolie on April 29, 2022, 05:14:13 AM
Do they have spinosad down there? Works well for leaf miner here, or you can just not feed after spring as an alternative.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: EricSC on April 29, 2022, 04:49:05 PM
Do they have spinosad down there? Works well for leaf miner here, or you can just not feed after spring as an alternative.

Can you give a little more details how to use spinosad?
How many times to repeat the spray?
To Spray the whole tree or just the growing portions?
What month to spray (or when you see the new flush?
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: JoshuaTilaranCR on April 29, 2022, 06:46:50 PM
When using oils can you add to them a foliar fertilizer?

I'm asking after the fact that I've already done this but i want to know the thoughts of the experts. The other day I sprayed most of my trees with a sunflower oil and dish soap mix that I've been using for the last couple years. 1 part liquid dish soap and 2 parts oil, shaken to emulsify and added to water, 1 tbsp or 15ml/L of water. I added an organic foliar fertilizer with chelated micronutrients to kill two birds with one stone. Did I do something wrong? In my head the soap that helps the oil stick would also help the fertilizer stick to the leaves
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: laidbackdood on May 01, 2022, 10:24:01 AM
Do they have spinosad down there? Works well for leaf miner here, or you can just not feed after spring as an alternative.
Yeah...ive been going more for the concentrated form of feeding in spring to get as much growth as i can before the CLM turn up in the warm weather......i will have a look for spinosad here then....up to now...i use eco oil and neem oil with a little fish emulsion....but they just murder new growth...esp on lemons......its the urea they seek.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: TimWestley on May 22, 2023, 07:20:02 PM
spammer
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: Millet on May 23, 2023, 12:30:22 PM
During summer months spray horticultural oils in the evening before sunset and you should be fine.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: Travillion on May 28, 2023, 01:15:20 PM
I'm in 10A - as we approach Summer what temperature range is the cutoff for using oils, and can soaps be used during the hottest part of the hyear?

That's my problem. Most oils can't be sprayed above 85-90F. Where I live, that's when the trees are flushing and I see the most pests. I resort to spraying the trees off with a hose every week or so.
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: Tortuga on May 28, 2023, 03:18:20 PM
Sometimes you have to wait for a cool evening to spray in warmer climates.

I highly highly recommend a ULV (ultra low volume) fogger for pest management and foliage applications. The fine mist covers ALL the plant way more efficiently and you use much less chemical. I worked for an arborist for a few years and this was better than any backpack sprayer. In my own business I use this to fertilize palms and in my grove I use this for neem oil and kelp sprays.

Super handy ULV is affordable on Amazon. It’ll save you hours in the long run vs hand spraying

Oh and I forgot to mention it makes spraying totally fun and you look like a ghost buster while your at it
Title: Re: Horticultural Oil For Insect Control
Post by: amejee on September 14, 2023, 09:24:54 AM
I totally feel your pain with those Cms in Western Australia - they can be a real nuisance! I used to struggle with them too until I stumbled upon a local pest control service in Sunderland, UK. They've been a lifesaver for me in keeping those critters at bay. I'm not sure if they operate in Australia, but you might want to check out their website at https://ajverminatorpestcontrol.com/ just in case they have any helpful tips or products that could work for you Down Under.  I've found that timing is everything, and spring is indeed the key. Getting ahead of those little critters before they show up has been a lifesaver for my citrus.