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Messages - citrange

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1
Citrus General Discussion / Re: UF Australian Lime Improvement Program
« on: August 24, 2022, 04:06:20 PM »
In the UK and many countries outside USA it is not possible to patent plants because they are not considered to be inventions. Instead 'plant breeder rights' can be registered for new cultivars. The first person to be given plant breeder rights over a microcitrus variety was Erika Birmingham of Byron Bay Nurseries in Australia. She became quite paranoid about the possibility that native Australian citrus would be exploited overseas, as happened with Macademia nuts. The inevitable has now happened and her concerns have been proved correct.
It is interesting to note that the name SunLime is very similar to the Australian registered Sunrise Lime. This variety and the Red Centre Lime (previously Blood Lime) have had very limited commercial success in Australia. I suspect this is because they are basically an acidic fruit which can be used as an ingredient or garnish but are not very desirable to eat as they are.
I have been growing microcitrus for many years and have produced several interesting hybrids. Saga University in Japan also experimented with such hybrids some years ago. Details of some of these are available on my website at http://www.homecitrusgrowers.co.uk/australiannativecitrus/sagauniversityhybrids.html

2
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Gummosis problem
« on: August 18, 2022, 12:36:38 PM »
There is one fungicide which is said to specifically control phytophthera. This is Fosetyl-Aluminium sold as Aliette. See for instance https://www.cropscience.bayer.us/products/fungicides/aliette
As others have said, the best way to guard against the problem is to avoid saturated medium. Make sure water can drain freely through and out of the pot in abround 30 seconds. I also re-plant with the stem raised a little above the surface of the pot mix, even with the highest roots showing.

3
I have seen something similar which disappeared completely after a couple of years. I put it down to the effect of some chemical.
As I asked on the other forum you posted on, have you fertilised recently? If so, with what and how much? Any chance of drift from nearby weedkiller or path clear chemical?

4

Nice to see that there is at least one picture of an Australian citrus!
This C. glauca - Desert Lime - was grabbed from the video at about 50 seconds.


5
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Myer lemon citrus no leaves
« on: June 18, 2022, 06:46:51 AM »
It looks to me like coconut husk chips.  Are you using that as growing medium or just a top mulch?
I used CHCs for several years for my potted citrus but found they break down fairly quickly into an unhealthy and often soggy mix. For a couple of years they are fine, although getting the watering right is difficult. But after that things go downhill and root rot often sets in.

6
Don't forget that Australian Finger Limes have a quite different history from conventional citrus species and varieties. The FLs have really only been selected recently from wild plants which have then been given names - as yet there has been little if any breeding to encourage and select desirable traits. Plants available outside Australia are also quite likely to have been grown from seed or propagated from a seedling and so can be variable.
Conventional citrus are not found wild in the forms that we generally know. They have been selected and propagated for hundreds of years and named varieties are now exact clones of each other with very little variation between individual plants.

7
Citrus General Discussion / Re: What variety could this be?
« on: June 02, 2022, 03:29:23 PM »
Calamondin - Citrus mitis.

8
I have been growing the fast-flowering Poncirus for many years. In a really good citrus climate in seems to grow OK, but in cooler climates growth is extremely weak. The largest of my plants are still only about 20cms (18") tall. Yes, it does flower before other seedling trifoliates, but the flowers on these small plants are often imperfect and usually do not form fruits. On the rare occasion when a single fruit has formed it has dropped when still tiny. So for me it has failed to be useful for hybridisation experiments or obtaining seeds. Very sad!!

9
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Kumquat x Buddha's Hand
« on: May 25, 2022, 02:18:54 PM »
We know that Buddha's Hand is always propagated vegetatively because it does not produce seeds, but I've never heard of any hybrids before. I've always assumed that the pollen is not viable and that the fingered fruit would have died out without human intervention. If the pollen is viable then it may or may not carry the 'defective' gene which produces fingered fruit. Clearly, with this hybrid the trait has not been passed on. The resulting plant may be no different from a Kumquat hybrid with some other citron variety.

10
Citrus General Discussion / Citrus pollination methods
« on: May 24, 2022, 02:18:48 PM »
pagnr - a member of this forum in Australia - sent me a useful pdf article about pollination of citrus to produce hybrids. It was written some years ago by Steve Sykes who developed several Australian native hybrids such as the Red Centre Lime (previously Blood lime) and the Sunrise Lime.
Title: Methods used for conducting controlled cross-pollination in Citrus
View at: http://www.homecitrusgrowers.co.uk/pdfs/Citrus%20flower%20pollination%20methods.pdf
Mike/Citrange

11
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« on: April 07, 2022, 04:38:56 PM »
I was given budwood of US119 in 2001, grafted it onto Poncirus rootstock, and planted it outside here in UK in 2004.
It has survived down to -15C, most winters the minimum is around -6c, but it has grown so slowly and never yet flowered.
I believe the real problem with growing citrus here is the short summer growing period.
We only have 3 months guaranteed frost-free and most varieties just don't have enough time to put on summer growth before they become dormant again.
My 119 is about 1.5m (4 - 5 ft) tall. Perhaps this year it will produce fruit - but I've been saying that for the past 15 years!

12
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 Citrus glauca
« on: February 27, 2022, 04:17:02 PM »
To be honest I can't remember whether they have seeds or not.
Although I had a look today, there aren't any fruits left - they all seem to fall together sometime in November.
I'll try and remember to check later in the year!

13
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Meyers Lemon Tree
« on: February 24, 2022, 02:42:21 PM »
If as you say this is a grafted tree then it seems the graft is very near ground level or below ground.
This means that it has been planted much too deep. The graft line should always be well clear of the ground so rain reaching the ground does not splash dirt on to the trunk and cause infection. That is one of the reasons for having a rootstock which is less susceptible to phytophthora than the top variety.
I think that the darker and slightly sunken area just below the main forking branches may be a sign of phytophthora infection.
If it is phytophthora and it has completely circled the trunk, there is little hope for the tree.
A really valuable tree could possibly be saved by grafting new rootstocks above the infection - a process called inarching.
This was carried out on the Parent Washington Navel tree in Riverside. See my photos at
http://www.homecitrusgrowers.co.uk/riverside/parentwashingtonnavel.html

14
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Meyers Lemon Tree
« on: February 21, 2022, 03:19:44 PM »
The whole tree is clearly dying, so the problem is almost certainly at the roots or trunk.
It would help if you post a picture of the trunk at ground level.
Is this a grafted tree or rooted cutting?
And what is the idea of that netting on the ground?
Here are three possible causes:
1.The roots could be rotting due to waterlogging and poor drainage.
2. It is simply too dry and not getting enough water. Once completely dry it can be difficult for water to penetrate and it runs off before reaching the roots.
3. There is restriction of sap flow in the trunk - usually caused by fungal phytophthera infection arising from physical damage or damp soil on the trunk.

15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 Citrus glauca
« on: February 18, 2022, 04:24:44 AM »
Citrus glauca (previously called Eremocitrus glauca) does hybridise easily with other species.
Over 25 years ago I managed to germinate only one seed from several sent to me from Riverside.
It soon became clear this was a hybrid which I jokingly called 'Eremowhat?'.
This plant is still a vigourous potted tree about 8 feet tall and fruits each year.
You can read a rather old web-page about it at http://www.homecitrusgrowers.co.uk/australiannativecitrus/eremowhat.html
 


16
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Dr. Robert Dunstan
« on: February 17, 2022, 05:50:29 PM »
I have just a small piece of information linking the names Zehnder and Dunstan which I was told about when researching the origins of a citrus tree in the English city of Nottingham. This quote is taken from my website at http://www.homecitrusgrowers.co.uk/citrumelos/citrumelonottingham.html
Quote
However, I did have a lot of citrus seedlings raised from seeds a contact in the USA had sent to me and think this is where the connection comes from. I  received the seeds from a Mr Zehnder who said the parent plant was a citrumelo, not a citrange. He didn’t give me the cultivar name of the parent plant so I initially called the young plants ‘Zehnder Seedlings’ although subsequently he told me that the true name was ‘Dunstan’.



17
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Making mamalade
« on: February 14, 2022, 09:59:04 AM »
Quote
greatly reduces the heat destruction of the fruit
It may be a fun experiment but otherwise I don't understand why you are trying to do this.
Marmalade tastes good because the fruit has softened and broken down and partially dissolved in the sugar.
This probably wouldn't happen at your high-altitude boiling temperature.
Also, the marmalade sets to a gel or jelly because of the presence of fruit pectin.
I'm pretty certain that this won't happen at low temperatures.
There is a scholarly paper called SETTING TIME AND SETTING TEMPERATURE OF PECTIN JELLIES published in 1960, but you'll have to pay $12 to read it online.

18
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Grafting onto fast flowering Poncirus
« on: January 17, 2022, 04:57:00 AM »
Over the years I have read many reports on attempts to consistently induce early flowering in citrus seedlings. This has always been important commercially in order to develop new varieties. Methods attempted have included choice of rootstocks, height of grafting, hormone treatments, budding another flowering twig below the new graft, restricting sap flow by bending, etc. etc. As far as I know, none of these has been consistently and significantly successful. The exception may be the introduction of early-flowering genes from another species (arabidopsis?) but I'm not sure this has been used outside laboratory experiments and may not be acceptable to some people.
The idea that there is an early-flowering 'hormone' that can be transferred from flowering to non-flowering seedling has often been claimed - and named florigen - but never scientifically accepted or isolated.
I have grown early-flowering Poncirus seedlings for many years. Some seedlings do indeed flower when the plants are still only about 15cms/6" tall, but for me the flowers do not form fruits until the seedlings are bigger. And they are so slow growing that this takes many more years. I have not used them as rootstocks because in my cool climate I need something vigorous.
There are of course many anecdotal reports of inducing early flowering, such as the one by pagnr in this thread using FD rootstocks. He is lucky his FDs are flowering after 5 years - mine take 10 years or more! I also spoke to one French nurseryman who said that standard Poncirus seedlings flowered much earlier if a FD interstock was used.

19
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Grafting onto fast flowering Poncirus
« on: January 15, 2022, 11:41:15 AM »
No.

20
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu seedling growing in Washington state
« on: January 15, 2022, 09:31:28 AM »
Interesting climate discussion - even if a little off-topic.
I'm sure much of what you say is correct but nonetheless Britain does very occassionally suffer what we call 'The Beast from the East'. This is when there is a prolonged period of easterly winds in winter originating in Siberia and blowing over northern Europe via Moscow and Berlin. It is usually associated with a strong Scandinavian high pressure system. Passage over water is limited to the English Channel which is only 20 miles across at its narrowest and then provides limited warming of a cold continental air mass.
You talk about Sweden. Remember that the Northern part of the Gulf of Bothnia usually freezes along with the Gulf of Finland and very rarely the whole of the Baltic. This is in part due to the very low salinity - in places the Baltic is nearly a fresh-water lake. In these conditions easterly winds reaching Sweden are isolated from any warming water. I doubt there are any outdoor Yuzus in Sweden!
Here is a photo of the English North Sea fishing port of Whitby Harbour frozen in 2010.



21
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu seedling growing in Washington state
« on: January 14, 2022, 07:41:10 AM »
I think I can beat you all with my Yuzu growing outside at 51.6 degrees N. That's a bit further north than Vancouver, Canada! We do however have the Gulf Stream to thank for our relatively warm winters. Usual minimum temperature around -6C to -10C.
My Yuzu is about six years old, planted outside three years ago, and currently carrying its first small fruit.
In the photos the thick branch behind is a Poncirus trifoliata and the orange fruits are a nearby Benton citrange.


Mike/Citrange




22
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Low Biuret Urea
« on: January 07, 2022, 06:21:50 AM »
There is another very useful article about citrus foliar feeding, chemical deficiencies, toxicities etc at the link below. Contains a lot of interesting information - although of course it is directed at commercial growers and points them towards the company products. Includes picture of citrus leaves with biuret damage.
https://www.haifa-group.com/files/Guides/Citrus.pdf
Here in England the amount of biuret in urea is rarely given in the product description, possibly because no commercial crops here are very sensitive to it. Sometimes it is said to be <1% but I have read that a truly low biuret product should be <0.2%.

23
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Remaking the Australian Red Lime Hybrid
« on: December 31, 2021, 03:35:50 PM »
Quote
Citrange are you growing a Blood Lime cutting or grafted on rootstock ??

Grafted - but I'm not absolutely certain on to what rootstock. Probably C. trifoliata (Poncirus) because that's what I have mostly had available but could also have been a citrange. I had a few Morton seedlings.
See http://www.homecitrusgrowers.co.uk/australiannativecitrus/bloodlime.html

24
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Remaking the Australian Red Lime Hybrid
« on: December 31, 2021, 05:26:24 AM »
I have been growing a potted Blood Lime (or Red Centre Lime) for a number of years.
I find it is not a vigorous plant and has remained quite small in my less than perfect citrus climate. It produces a few fruits every year which usually remain a very dark purple-black colour until over mature. Finally they do reach the bright red colour usually seen in photos of this variety. I have several times planted seeds which germinate ok but produce very weak plants which die when still small.
For anyone interested in breeding from Australian citrus species, the CSIRO facility at Merbein did fantastic work. I have corresponded with Steven Sykes who led the research work there and he told me that all the experimental plantings and wild selections at the site were destroyed when it closed down. In my opinion that was an act of vandalism.
Here are a couple of GoogleEarth images of part of the site. They show the destruction between 2010 and 2012.





25
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Good citrus books?
« on: December 21, 2021, 04:55:48 PM »
Thanks for your comments about Home Citrus Growers website. I know it's style is dated and it takes quite an effort to keep checking that the links and facts are still correct. And it isn't designed for today's phones with small screens. Like me, it is getting much too old!
I'd love to have another plant-hunting trip in Australia but I doubt it will happen. The last one had its scary moments - I even ended up in a hospital having a live tick dug out from my chest. My wife thought I was quite mad to go poking around in the bush by myself. She's probably right.

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