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Messages - Guanabanus

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Nice Pictures, and good point!

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Picked a Rollinia today
« on: March 02, 2012, 11:59:09 PM »
It is true that nitidulids stay away from soursop, but I believe they are the main pollinators of Rollinia here.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Picked a Rollinia today
« on: March 02, 2012, 09:40:48 PM »
They don't need cross-pollination.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: More Custard Apples Parkland FL
« on: March 02, 2012, 09:34:44 PM »
I live in Zone 10b (or "c"?), where there hasn't been a freeze since 1989, and then just barely for 1/2 hour.  I don't recall too serious of damage on the custard-apples' larger branches in the more serious freezes in 1984 and 1987--- about 28 degrees for over an hour, if my memory serves me.

For Annona Seed Borers, bag the fruit--- when the fruit is the size of your pinkie fingernail.  Any bag will do, even if it is ripped:  the pest no longer recognizes the shape and just flies on by.  I have used curtain material and old pantyhoses, and I have heard of waxed paper bags too.  The bag must be big enough for the fruit to fill out in.  Of course tying a large bag onto the tiny fruit peduncle is not a good idea;  you must tie your twistie on the opposite side of the branch, with the fruit simply included in the bag.  If your fruit are already appreciably bigger than your pinkie fingernail, go ahead and bag themm anyway---  when the little bugers bore out, they will be trapped, and you may take pleasure in squishing them!


The leaves in your picture do look like cherimoya.   Are they hairy?  The small plant that I received had narrower, pointy leaves.
The flowers could be either cherimoya or atemoya.  Another thing to check will be seed shape and color, but that won't be definitive either, because, as hybrids, different atemoyas will have different throwback details to their ancestors.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Picked a Rollinia today
« on: March 02, 2012, 08:16:03 PM »
Yes.  My two hybrid Rollinia deliciosa (officially R. Mucosa, or now Annona mucosa again, if you can believe it.) are 'Prolific' and 'Humungous.'  They both have excellent flavor, creamy texture, low seed count, large size, bright yellow color.  'Humungous' has moderate or better production.  'Prolific' produces heavily.  Both give two crops a year here, the summer crop being the best quality.  This year I hope to propagate some for sale next year.  Seedlings do just fine in many locations, where there is clay or where water is available within some ten feet down.  My yard is on an ancient sand dune, and the water table is 27 feet down, and only hose-end sprinklers to move around--- no Rollinia deliciosa seedlings have survived more than a couple of years in the ground here.  My trees are grafted onto a distantly related species.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dear Sapodilla Wizards
« on: March 02, 2012, 07:57:56 PM »
In Yucatec Mayan, 'Molix,' said moh-LEESH, means "curly," referring to the wavy margins of the leaves.  Your pictue shows straight-edged leaves, so it is not 'Molix.  [I was translating for Gary Zill when he procured this variety in Oxkutzcab, Yucatán, México.]

The fruit shape and colored new growth looks like 'Alano' to me.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: anyone growing meiogyne cylindrocarpa?
« on: March 02, 2012, 07:48:34 PM »
Nice picture!

I have two five-foot plants that have not fruited yet.  They are from seeds sent to me by Crafton Clift.  At the time they were labeled as Polyaulax cylindrocarpa.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Picked a Rollinia today
« on: March 02, 2012, 09:03:42 AM »

Whether Rollinias come true from seed depends on the origin and neighborhood of the tree.  A tree that originated from several generations of self-pollinated trees
could be expected to vary only slightly from the mother tree.

If the tree comes from an area with appreciable Rollinia diversity, than noticeable variations in the offspring are to be expected.

My two trees are the result of my hybridizing a small, sweet, bright-yellow Biribá from Manaus, Brazil, with an unattractive mottley-colored, very pointy, slightly bitter, mucusey, HUGE one from Perú.  The offspring from my seeds would vary quite a bit.

I agree with your preferences for eating Biribá.  If the fruit is chilled it shouldn't be for much more than 12 hours, as it will soon become mucusey and less flavorful.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: can persimons taste good
« on: March 02, 2012, 08:41:22 AM »
You all are talking about "Kaki", or ORIENTAL PERSIMMON.  Please don't leave off the "Oriental," as the actual true Persimmon is Diospyros virginiana, native to the eastern USA.

The persimmon-improvement group, which included my father, have been working on breeding and selecting true persimmons over the last several decades.
Some are close to the size of a 'Triumph' and rival or beat any oriental persimmon in over-all flavor, and definitely beat them in sweetness.

I have the 'Homestead' persimmon, selected in Florida City, at the bottom of the Florida Peninsula.  'Homestead' is not one of the superior selections for quality, but is adapted to our climate.  I have not tried to grow any of the selections done by the persimmon-improvement group associated with the Indiana Fruit and Nut Growers Association.  My Mother's yard has a collection of those on Sand Mountain in northeastern Alabama.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: More Custard Apples Parkland FL
« on: March 01, 2012, 07:47:16 AM »
My favorite Reticulata is probably 'Canul', really liked 'Benque' too, but haven't had either in years.  I like most of them just fine.  I'd like to try that beautiful 'Fernandez,' of Lara Nursery, pictured in this forum.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Atemoya Most Like Cherimoya
« on: March 01, 2012, 07:39:57 AM »
Felipe, I was wondering the same thing about 'Malamud'.   I dont have any info about it, but the picture looks like a 1/2 Reticulata Annona Hybrid.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Soncoya
« on: March 01, 2012, 12:32:02 AM »
Soncoyas are grown because they are beautiful shade trees.  The flowers and fruits are also beautiful.  The flesh smells good and tastes good, but the texture is hard to underrate:  mostly large, rough seeds; very fibrous, with the fibers attached to the rough seeds;  very gritty near the peel; slimy juice.

I grafted a second variety onto my tree for cross pollination, but that didn't occur until I did by hand in the middle of the night.  Once.  I haven't eaten any in a decade, but I still like my tree.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: More Custard Apples Parkland FL
« on: March 01, 2012, 12:15:18 AM »
I'm not sure how Annona reticulata handles Santa Anna winds.  We don't get fierce dry winds here. 

Here in Florida, fruit quality is best when the trees still have most of their leaves through early spring.  When our dry season starts as early as November or January, they must be watered regularly to keep the leaves from dropping off.  Fruits that have hung on a leafless tree for three or more months do live up to the least complementary things said about this species.

A top-quality cream-and-strawberries, perfumy Reticulata is hard to beat in the spring.

Anikulapo could well be right on his first guess, that the leaves and green fruit look like Rollinia rugulosa, a rare temperate zone fruit, that could well be of importance for breeding.  I believe those were what I saw, with very lumpy immature fruits, high in the sometimes snowy mountains of Rio Grande do Sul state in southern Brazil  (Parque do Caracol).  Those did have large, stiff, shiny leaves.

I prefer not to receive surprise guests when I'm on the roof eating chocolate-pudding-fruits, because I look like a two-year-old who's been likking the pudding bowl!

I have one of the larger, better fruited ones, and it is one of my favorite fruits.  The flavor is all it's own, but color and texture  give the name. 

It is best eaten with a spoon.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: My Fruit Brix Results
« on: February 29, 2012, 10:52:38 PM »
Good idea.

Each variety's BRIX will vary. 

Growers use BRIX for feedback:  Was mineral nutrition optimal? (Calcium, Phosphorous, Potassium, Silicon, etc.)  Has the fruit been on the tree long enough? (Enough sunny days).

Savvy buyers use their own BRIX meters for selecting quality.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Good weeds
« on: February 29, 2012, 10:42:45 PM »
Lots of Oxalis leaves can be boiled down to a black paste to apply as a poultice to remove pre-cancerous skin spots-- painful, but way cheeper than going to the dermatologist for liquid nitrogen!

In deep shade under some of my trees, I grow a delicious dark-green leafy vegetable from the black-pepper family, "Chompoo", I don't know the binomial.
Chompoo accasionally produces a sweet fruit that I call "Mulberry-Pepper."

In partial shade under other trees I have "Tlanipa" (a.k.a. "Yerba-Santa"), also from the Piperaceae (Black-Pepper Family).  In sunny spots I have Talinum and Asiatic Day-Flower and Katook.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Atemoya Most Like Cherimoya
« on: February 29, 2012, 10:14:48 PM »
The richness of the better true cherimoyas, and the great differences among true cherimoya varieties, are hard to approach within any other single Annona species, or within the "atemoya" category of Annona hybrids.  You need a collection of several other species to approach the gourmet pleasure you could get from growing a collection of cherimoya varieties where they grow well--- not here!

Though I bred the '48--26', a.k.a. 'Lisa,' I agree that 'Geffner' is far more likely to perform satisfactorily.

Be aware that some lists, including the Sarasota list, contain varieties of Annona hybrids which are not properly referred to as "atemoyas."
"Atemoyas" are Annona hybrids containing both Annona squamosa (Sugar-Apple, or Sweetsop, or Ate, or Anón) and Annona cherimola (Cherimoya, "true cherimoya"), and NO OTHER species.  Annona hybrids containing other Annona species should not be called "atemoya."

Annona hybrids that are part Annona reticulata ("Reticulata" or "Custard-Apple" in Florida, Bullock's-Heart, Corazón), or part Annona diversifolia (ilama, or papauce), should simply be called "Annona hybrids", but may also be referred to with their own specific hybrid names:
"Cherilata" for part cherimoya and part reticulata;
"Temoylata" for the 3-species mix of sugar-apple, cherimoya, and reticulata;  etc.

When one joins a group from many places talking about Annonas, the conversation  can easily bring recollections of Babylon--- novices will even call soursops "atemoyas"; Brazilian's have several names for Sugar-apple, depending on the town; Cuban's often call Reticulata "cherimoya", and several other Annona species get called "cherimoya" elsewhere;  Australians tend to call all Annonas "Custard-Apples;" and so on; and erudite botanists keep splitting the genera in this family, and then lumping them together again.


PS:  Where the "true cherimoya" is from, the valleys between the ranges of the Andes, the Quechua language is spoken.  Because many cherimoya varieties have "mamilate" skins, and because the fruits are not from the animal kingdom and therefore are not warm, they are called "chiri moya" = cold breasts.

I don't know of anyone's having enough success with Annona cherimola in Florida to be able to recommend it.  I have been given a one gallon plant of 'Dream' and will wait and see what it does.  The leaves of 'Dream' appear to be atemoya, i.e. 1/2 cherimoya, 1/2 sugar-apple.  I have not seen the flower or fruit.

During my years of Annona hybridizing at Zill High Performance Plants, here in eastern Palm Beach County, I worked with 8 or 9 varieties of cherimoya that Gary Zill bought at nurseries in California.  Most never produced a properly-ripened fruit for eating purposes, though we often got viable seeds from them for our breeding program.  The variety called 'Spain' had a few decent-tasting fruits on it some years, and none other years. These varieties were all growing in 45-gallon or larger containers, well-drained, with drip irrigation, frequent spraying against potato leafhoppers and fungi, and plenty of fertilizer.  I have not worked with cherimoya selections made since the 1980's, so, for example, I have not worked with 'Fino-de-Jete.'

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Welcome Har :-)
« on: February 26, 2012, 10:17:41 PM »
Thank you, Jeff.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting illama question
« on: February 26, 2012, 09:52:46 PM »
If doing a top cleft, use a scion slightly thicker than the roostock, since you will have a V-cut going into a slit.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
« on: February 26, 2012, 09:48:42 PM »
You are right  about the spelling.  I admit I had never looked up the town of Sarteneja on the map.  It is in the Corozal district where Laurence Zill owned a farm for many years.

You are right that many of the varieties mentioned no longer seem to exist in Florida.  Some were only used to breed with.  Hopefully someone still has the 'Canul.'
'San Pablo' and 'Sarteneja' are still around.   'Benque', and 'Tikal,' under our care at least, were not productive enough to promote, although they had  vividly red flesh.  'Chonox' was not great tasting, but was a botanical curiosity as to the number of flowers per cluster.

'Pajapita', 'Genova Red', and 'Guillermo' still exist in Florida, most on pond-apple rootstock showing development of delayed incompatibility, but still producing loads of fruit, better than on most other rootsotcks.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Red Custard Apple in Israel
« on: February 26, 2012, 09:32:44 PM »
This appears to be the '47--18' which I bred in the Annona breeding program at Zill High Performance Plants in the late 1980s.   I believe that I recall that the owner, Gary Zill, took some graftwood of it to an experiment station in Israel when he visted there in the late 1990's.  The ancestry of the '47--18' is 'Gefner' atemoya x 'San Pablo' Custard-Apple.

It certainly is possible, however, that this is another, similar hybrid.

All the best,
Har Mahdeem

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
« on: February 26, 2012, 09:22:05 PM »
In the mid-1980's, Laurence Zill, sometimes accompanied by his son Gary, collected red Annona reticulata varieties in Belize and northern Guatemala.  These Custard-Apple varieties he usually named after the town or community where he got graftwood.  These included 'Sarteneja' from the town of Sartenaja, 'Chonox,' 'Benque,' 'Canul,' and 'San Pablo,' all from Belize (so not from a state of Brazil), and Tikal (not from the actual ruins).   Gary Zill later returned alone to northern Guatemala and collected the 'El Remate,' 'Tart,' and 'León,' named in honor of Dr. Jorge León, eminent plant collector in Central America, who provided us with a lot of initial guidance.

The Zills sent me to western Guatemala several times.  I collected varieties of ilama, Annona diversifolia, including 'Genova Red,' and Genova White,' both from the town of Genova, 'Guillermo' from the yard of a man by that name near Retahuleu, and 'Pajapita' from the town of that name near the border with Mexico.

On cold hardiness--- several degrees of difference can be made by the general condition of the plant and the abscence or presence of other stressing factors, and by presence or lack of frost-nucleating bacteria or other particles.

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