26
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Contest: Largest Loquat Fruit for 2022
« on: April 05, 2022, 12:09:12 AM »
Nice contest Kaz! One suggestion- The fruit must not have any stem attached to be fair
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27
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Search for the Best Tasting Mulberry ???
« on: April 05, 2022, 12:03:17 AM »Middle eastern grocery sells them in the town near here. If they are for sale in a store it will be dried mulberry. I could dry some and send them if you really want to try it.
I see amazon sells dried ones also.
Heres some pics of a couple young trees. This one is the white pakistan tree kaz grafted and sent me a few years ago. It has a lot of fruit for a tiny tree. My kids love going to pick them.
This one is the red himalayan and I have a few otjer types grafted on it also.
Brad is the red one the Red Himalayan? Did you pick them early? Mine gets dark almost like black Pakistan if I leave them on the tree longer.
I like Black Pakistan, RH, and the Australian green. Waiting for persian black to ripen. PB is a very slow grower for me with very short internode distance. Seems to be a good tree for pots.
28
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: How's Your SoCal Lychee and Longan Trees Doing This Year?
« on: April 04, 2022, 11:38:32 PM »29
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: How's Your SoCal Lychee and Longan Trees Doing This Year?
« on: April 04, 2022, 05:02:59 PM »
My sweetheart lychee had a huge bloom last year but has only vegetative growth this year.
I just watched some videos from chinese growers. For certain varieties with dense flowers they thin the flower clusters twice, once when the cluster is about 3 inches and once after male flowers start to bloom. Thinning can be done hand or by spraying. For those varieties of you don’t thin flowers the tree would use so much nutrients in blooming which leads to insufficient female flowers and poor fruit set.
I think sweetheart lychee fits this category of lychees - my tree sends out super dense flower clusters, and at least in California they seem to have poor production. I will adopt that method in the future
I just watched some videos from chinese growers. For certain varieties with dense flowers they thin the flower clusters twice, once when the cluster is about 3 inches and once after male flowers start to bloom. Thinning can be done hand or by spraying. For those varieties of you don’t thin flowers the tree would use so much nutrients in blooming which leads to insufficient female flowers and poor fruit set.
I think sweetheart lychee fits this category of lychees - my tree sends out super dense flower clusters, and at least in California they seem to have poor production. I will adopt that method in the future
30
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Loquats Fruiting in January - In SoCal
« on: February 16, 2022, 12:26:57 PM »
Kaz, my tree was a mature and fruiting tree before I whacked it. The cuttings were from a mature tree but not sure if it’s from the fruiting woods.
I have also a mature tree #2 which I whacked back in 2020 and grafted many varieties including some from you (teardrop, SherriLynn etc). No flowers in 2020 and 2021, except one small branch (Kanko) which is holding a few fruits now. I hope i will get more flowers this year.
Like tree #1, this tree has been growing a lot, almost recovering to the original size.
I have tree #3 (the tree you saw with the big cluster of big Jim), similar story but I whacked it partially. Not many fruits either.
I have also a mature tree #2 which I whacked back in 2020 and grafted many varieties including some from you (teardrop, SherriLynn etc). No flowers in 2020 and 2021, except one small branch (Kanko) which is holding a few fruits now. I hope i will get more flowers this year.
Like tree #1, this tree has been growing a lot, almost recovering to the original size.
I have tree #3 (the tree you saw with the big cluster of big Jim), similar story but I whacked it partially. Not many fruits either.
31
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Loquats Fruiting in January - In SoCal
« on: February 15, 2022, 08:02:08 PM »Yes, if you graft to mature tree you will always get fruits sooner on the grafted branch.
I have one seedling tree which has fruits with 1 seed mostly, will know this year if it is consistent. The Fletcher fruit in the link with one seed seems to have a big one seed. My one seed is normal seed, but I do notice the fruits are smaller than any of the other loquats.
Kaz, i top worked a mature tree and grafted many scions and varieties on them. On both trees (say I grafted in mid of year 1), no flower on year 1 fall/winter. At year 2, only a few branches from a few varieties have flowers. At year 3, perhaps 50% branches have flowers. So for me I lost more than 2 years of crop. I think it’s because the tree has been using most energy on growing vegetatively to full size before fruiting heavily.
If you don’t prune back the mature tree too much, and graft a few branches, it might fruit much quicker.
32
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Yang mei growth and bud swelling
« on: February 14, 2022, 04:18:15 PM »
Wow Joe and Janet, they are recovering so fast! I’m very impressed.
Hopefully they will grow pretty fast and you will get fruits in a couple of years.
Hopefully they will grow pretty fast and you will get fruits in a couple of years.
33
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« on: February 14, 2022, 01:24:13 AM »
Bill thanks for clarification. I also heard that big black carbon is same as black crystal. I didn’t know that you translated crystal 晶 to diamond 钻. I think black crystal as a literal translation is more appropriate. Black crystal is said to have large fruit and is totally legit.
34
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« on: February 13, 2022, 11:26:55 PM »
Bill, really not trying to be difficult. I applaud your effort to bring more trees to the community. I just want to reduce confusion about the varieties as much as possible.
If you just use big black carbon instead of black carbon, it will be much better. You don’t have to agree with me on whether Biqi is black carbon, but big black carbon is different from black carbon.
It’s good that you are bringing in more varieties, including “big black carbon”. Wish you good luck!
If you just use big black carbon instead of black carbon, it will be much better. You don’t have to agree with me on whether Biqi is black carbon, but big black carbon is different from black carbon.
It’s good that you are bringing in more varieties, including “big black carbon”. Wish you good luck!
35
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« on: February 13, 2022, 05:18:22 PM »Have we settled on the fact that Black Diamond is a unique cultivar and is not another name for Biqi? If yes here is my updated list.
2x Biqi Female
1x Biqi Male
2x Dongkui Female
2x Crystal Female
2x Late Growing Female
2x An Hai Female
2x Black Diamond female
Thank you for your patience Bill.
To CarolinaZone and all other members, for sure, it is a unique cultivar.
Many growers and vendors put these two in different categories. I notice that there are many different sayings about the Biqi
and Black Carbon from consumers, some of them do not know exactly. in this situation, I tend to believe growers and vendors.
Here are a couple of sites I found on internet.
This grower in another province in China put Biqi and Blank Diamond under different category in their introduction.
【荸荠种杨梅】Biqi: http://www.hnshuncheng.com/productdetail.html?id=201
【大黑炭杨梅 黑碳杨梅】Black Diamond ( Big Black Carbon, Blank Carbon) http://www.hnshuncheng.com/productdetail.html?id=202
There is another page in Chinese Yangmei forum talking about the difference of Biqi and Black Diamond with a live video.
【给你看看栽种四年开始结果的大黑炭和荸荠杨梅 - 杨梅论坛 - 水果邦农人之家】http://bbs.shuiguobang.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=442774&page=1
From what I learned from all the resources, Biqi is small version of Black Carbon, although many consumers think they are same thing; while Black Diamond(黑炭) is bigger than Biqi in size.
I believe the grower that is going to provide the trees this time does not just want to make fancy name but sell same variety.
Actually I had talked to the grower some weeks before I decided to start the first round of group order. At that time she offered me four varieties: DongKui(东魁), Crystal(水晶), Biqi(荸荠), and Black Diamond(黑炭). I just wanted to buy 8, two of each variety for myself and one of my physician friends, and offered her $800 + shipping cost if she could make it to send them to USA in whatever format. Due to the regulation of agriculture product export, she could not make it. That's the background that we started our own first group order with another vendor which has the export permit.
Let's see if we can achieve the number 500 in the second round. But if we can not make it, we can still try again in the winter.
Hi Bill,
Big black carbon(大黑炭）is totally different from black carbon (黑炭). The former more reddish and larger, and the latter is the same as Biqi. Both are legit varieties, but they are totally different
You posted a chinese page describing “big black carbon”, and it does not mention anything about it being the same as black carbon, and then you equate “big black carbon” as “black carbon”. This just creates more confusion for the community.
Where did you find chinese description of “black diamond” (黑钻石)? Why did you keep calling webpages showing only black carbon or big black carbon as describing “black diamond”? This just adds to the confusion.
I want to clarify
- big black carbon is a legit variety, but is totally different from black carbon. It’s reddish, larger than Biqi/black carbon but regarded by many as less tasty compared to Biqi.
- black carbon/charcoal is same as Biqi, very dark, small, sweet fruits
- black diamond is marketing gimmick. I don’t know what it is. I didn’t see any legit site mentioning this name
36
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« on: February 11, 2022, 02:40:52 PM »Black diamond( Carbon) fruits
Biqi fruits
Hi Bill, are these the seller's own pics, or he pulled them from the Internet?
37
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Loquats Fruiting in January - In SoCal
« on: February 11, 2022, 02:32:41 PM »
Kaz, agree with you that it's difficult to pick the fruits at optimal time, especially the yellow flesh varieties.
It's sometimes difficult to compare taste. So many factors can affect the taste. for example, i've had some bland big jim fruits, but I also had some best tasting loquats out of big jim (from Simon's tree). Watering, fertilization, fruit thinning, time to pick, etc. all seem to have some impact.
Your K9 looks great. I don't have K9 yet, but if you have scions for sale, please let me know.
It's sometimes difficult to compare taste. So many factors can affect the taste. for example, i've had some bland big jim fruits, but I also had some best tasting loquats out of big jim (from Simon's tree). Watering, fertilization, fruit thinning, time to pick, etc. all seem to have some impact.
Your K9 looks great. I don't have K9 yet, but if you have scions for sale, please let me know.
38
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« on: February 11, 2022, 02:20:02 PM »
Bill, appreciate you trying to get to the bottom of it. But the seller's answer is full of contradictions.
1) He said Biqi is more reddish, yet the picture he shared shows that Biqi is darker than so called "black carbon".
2) in your chat window, he said they have same sweetness level, but size is different. Now he said "black carbon" is sweeter.
3) He said "black carbon" is similar to Dongkui, smaller than Biqi. but it cannot be true, as biqi is much smaller than dongkui already. "black carbon" would be much, much smaller than Dongkui.
I never heard of "black diamond" yangmei. Google search (in Chinese) shows no relevant results. I think the seller just invented a fancy new name and try to sell more trees. Again, appreciate the good things that you are doing, but I have strong feeling against inventing new names for known varieties.
Pretty sure "black carbon" is just Biqi. Both names are legit, and are in most cases interchangeable. I was told that some people call an inferior cultivar "black carbon" (more reddish, less sweet, more prone to fruit dropping), however, but it's not widely accepted as "black carbon".
Biqi is widely considered one of the most productive varieties w/o premature fruit dropping issue. So I'm very surprised to hear that as well.
1) He said Biqi is more reddish, yet the picture he shared shows that Biqi is darker than so called "black carbon".
2) in your chat window, he said they have same sweetness level, but size is different. Now he said "black carbon" is sweeter.
3) He said "black carbon" is similar to Dongkui, smaller than Biqi. but it cannot be true, as biqi is much smaller than dongkui already. "black carbon" would be much, much smaller than Dongkui.
I never heard of "black diamond" yangmei. Google search (in Chinese) shows no relevant results. I think the seller just invented a fancy new name and try to sell more trees. Again, appreciate the good things that you are doing, but I have strong feeling against inventing new names for known varieties.
Pretty sure "black carbon" is just Biqi. Both names are legit, and are in most cases interchangeable. I was told that some people call an inferior cultivar "black carbon" (more reddish, less sweet, more prone to fruit dropping), however, but it's not widely accepted as "black carbon".
Biqi is widely considered one of the most productive varieties w/o premature fruit dropping issue. So I'm very surprised to hear that as well.
39
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« on: February 11, 2022, 11:58:30 AM »Beicadad, thank you for the clarification and additional information. Do you think the An Hai we got from your import is the Hard Silk?The An hai of the first import should be the same as “soft silk”, or “soft flesh”, referring to the soft texture.
Bill, I mostly joined this second order because I wanted the Black Diamond, but after considering Beicadad’s comments I’d like to remove the 3 Black Diamond from my order, but will keep the others. I do appreciate all your efforts.
Janet
40
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« on: February 11, 2022, 03:23:24 AM »Hi Kang, thank you for checking. The grower clearly said they are different in size, color and the time of blooming.
Here is the screenshot of my conversation with the grower and vendor.
Hi Bill, the seller has no idea what he’s talking about.
Biqi is very dark - I’ve had Biqi and dongkui fruits in both US and China. The pic in the chinese document above about Biqi also shows very dark fruits. Biqi and dongkui are the two most widely grown varieties and are very distinctive.
Dongkui is large (largest of all common varieties), red to red/black, sweet but with some tartness.
Biqi is much darker, medium/small size, sweet with less tartness.
I never heard of male trees w/ varieties. They should be based on male seedlings (either male seedling or scion from a male seedling grafted onto seedling). As you know Yangmei don’t come true to seeds.
Anyway don’t want to be negative. You are doing a great job - I just don’t think the seller knows about the varieties. If he’s really a grower I’d ask him to show pics of his trees, leaf patterns, and fruits.
41
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Loquats Fruiting in January - In SoCal
« on: February 11, 2022, 12:29:59 AM »I’m pretty excited, my Big Jim seedling is fruiting for the first time along with 6 other varieties I’ve grafted on there the last couple of years. The 6 varieties on there are Big Jim, Peluche, Vista White, Tori, K9, and Angelino. Out of those only the grafted Big Jim is changing color.
Very nice Nate. Those big Jim’s are pretty big
42
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Loquats Fruiting in January - In SoCal
« on: February 11, 2022, 12:27:42 AM »i did the grafting in early january and no they are pushing out in this heat and low humidity wind.
Next year Im going to graft early december.
That blows Brad. Hope some grafts can make it
43
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« on: February 11, 2022, 12:06:23 AM »
Adding some FB group discussions also saying black carbon is Biqi. Though one guy says black carbon is from biqi, most people I know say that they are the same. There could be multiple strains of biqi out there, but it’s not clear if any is clearly different from the others. since people in China use Biqi or black carbon interchangeably it’s really difficult to know what you are getting.
I really doubt the seller knows about the cultivar if he says Biqi is more red. He is clearly mistaken to say black carbon is close to dongkui.
I really doubt the seller knows about the cultivar if he says Biqi is more red. He is clearly mistaken to say black carbon is close to dongkui.
44
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« on: February 10, 2022, 11:58:59 PM »Hi bill, thanks for doing this. Very nice job!Thank you! Just confirmed with the seller and grower that the Black diamond( black carbon 黑炭 ) is a different variety than Bigi . it is at dark color, little bit smaller than Tongkui and Biqi, but close to Dongkui variety, while Biqi is slightly in red color.
pretty sure that black carbon (Charcoal, 黑炭) is another name for Biqi. I would check with the seller if black diamond is the black carbon (黑炭 means charcoal or black carbon in chinese)
Something that I learned from my import is that some sellers use fancy names to market known varieties, especially sellers who are not growers themselves. I’m guilty of that - the seller that I used is not a grower, and I later found out that “black peak” is another name for a known variety that’s called “hard flesh”.
Bill, Biqi is as dark as it can get for Yangmei, and is why it’s also called black carbon. I’ve talked to many growers who confirmed it.
It’s great that you are adding more varieties, but I think we should try to use the correct name to avoid multiple names for the same variety.
A few pics for reference
45
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Loquats Fruiting in January - In SoCal
« on: February 10, 2022, 03:36:05 PM »
My friend who lives close to me has his seedling loquat ripening now. It’s a yellow flesh variety. Pretty tasty but small.
Last year the fruits ripened much later. So the weather may have something to do with it.
Last year the fruits ripened much later. So the weather may have something to do with it.
46
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« on: February 10, 2022, 03:21:17 PM »
Hi bill, thanks for doing this. Very nice job!
pretty sure that black carbon (Charcoal, 黑炭) is another name for Biqi. I would check with the seller if black diamond is the black carbon (黑炭 means charcoal or black carbon in chinese)
Something that I learned from my import is that some sellers use fancy names to market known varieties, especially sellers who are not growers themselves. I’m guilty of that - the seller that I used is not a grower, and I later found out that “black peak” is another name for a known variety that’s called “hard flesh”.
pretty sure that black carbon (Charcoal, 黑炭) is another name for Biqi. I would check with the seller if black diamond is the black carbon (黑炭 means charcoal or black carbon in chinese)
Something that I learned from my import is that some sellers use fancy names to market known varieties, especially sellers who are not growers themselves. I’m guilty of that - the seller that I used is not a grower, and I later found out that “black peak” is another name for a known variety that’s called “hard flesh”.
47
Citrus General Discussion / Re: CCPP Budwood Price Hike
« on: January 20, 2022, 11:05:16 AM »
The calculation of bud wood cost fails to take into basic economics- much less people will buy at $5 per bud. Assuming only 1/10 of the buds will be sold at the new price. won’t the “cost per bud” be $50? They will not be able to recover the cost this way.
48
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Multi-Grafted Citrus tree fruiting
« on: January 19, 2022, 09:07:15 PM »
Kaz, you tree is so beautiful and productive. It’s so amazing
49
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« on: January 19, 2022, 09:06:06 PM »
Thanks so much to Millet. I just gave my golden nugget mandarin tree (with Sumo and Pokan grafted) a spray.
Last year only Sumo set like a dozen fruits. No fruits for golden nugget-hope this year it’s more productive.
Last year only Sumo set like a dozen fruits. No fruits for golden nugget-hope this year it’s more productive.
50
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« on: January 10, 2022, 03:01:40 AM »Could be low biuret, but if the product label does not list the biuret content there is no way of knowing. If you can't find any I could send you a 5-lb. jar of low biuret urea (0.5% biuret).Thank you so much for your kindness. Sending you a PM
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