Author Topic: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project  (Read 29932 times)

z_willus_d

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Oh yes they did.  It hit at around 1am "night" before last.  Went on for a couple hours.  Pretty intense stuff for our region.  I didn't get wind of any rain.  Maybe it happened some places.

Mark in Texas

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Screw the make work.  Spray leaves and all.

https://www.novasource.com/en/products/surround

spaugh

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The surround does work really well.  I put in a bunch of new avocado seedlings out on a hillside in full sun in June. They are out there getting roasted but they are flushing and no damage.  I sprayed them with Surround 3X already since June.  Before each heat wave spray the new leaves, then they flush new leaves and before the next heat wave spray again, repeat..   they look perfect and growing nicely from very small 1.2gal pots straight into full exposure. 

2 cups per gallon seems to be a nice mix.  Then a quick dusting, it takes very little effort and works like a champ. 
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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The surround does work really well.  I put in a bunch of new avocado seedlings out on a hillside in full sun in June. They are out there getting roasted but they are flushing and no damage.  I sprayed them with Surround 3X already since June.  Before each heat wave spray the new leaves, then they flush new leaves and before the next heat wave spray again, repeat..   they look perfect and growing nicely from very small 1.2gal pots straight into full exposure. 

2 cups per gallon seems to be a nice mix.  Then a quick dusting, it takes very little effort and works like a champ.

Glad it's working out for you.  Stay cool.......

Supposed to be a really good pesticide too.  We have a problem with the gray leaf footed bug.  "They say" 3 sprays on maters will control the adults. 

jtnguyen333

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The surround does work really well.  I put in a bunch of new avocado seedlings out on a hillside in full sun in June. They are out there getting roasted but they are flushing and no damage.  I sprayed them with Surround 3X already since June.  Before each heat wave spray the new leaves, then they flush new leaves and before the next heat wave spray again, repeat..   they look perfect and growing nicely from very small 1.2gal pots straight into full exposure. 

2 cups per gallon seems to be a nice mix.  Then a quick dusting, it takes very little effort and works like a champ.

What about using surround spray on dragon fruit plants?

containerman

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Screw the make work.  Spray leaves and all.

https://www.novasource.com/en/products/surround

I'm not seeing anywhere on the site where I can purchase the product. Do you have a link ?

Mark in Texas

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Google is your friend as is a local ag supplier.

Will work on any plant material.  May need to add a non ionic surfactant to stick to cereus.

spaugh

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The surround does work really well.  I put in a bunch of new avocado seedlings out on a hillside in full sun in June. They are out there getting roasted but they are flushing and no damage.  I sprayed them with Surround 3X already since June.  Before each heat wave spray the new leaves, then they flush new leaves and before the next heat wave spray again, repeat..   they look perfect and growing nicely from very small 1.2gal pots straight into full exposure. 

2 cups per gallon seems to be a nice mix.  Then a quick dusting, it takes very little effort and works like a champ.

What about using surround spray on dragon fruit plants?

My dragonfruit plants seem fine in full sun.  A few weak types get a little yellowing but most are no problem.  I would say they just need more water if you have burning on them. I'm sure it couldn't hurt to use it though if you have trellises with a big exposure on top from mid day sun going straight down. 
Brad Spaugh

z_willus_d

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Screw the make work.  Spray leaves and all.

https://www.novasource.com/en/products/surround

Mark, I purchased like $100 or more of surround and gave it a try last year.  Frankly, it took the joy of growing out of the process for me.  What I mean is that irritating white dust covering all the foliage turned my trees into something out of post-fallout Cormac McCarthy novel.  Even touching the stuff was annoying.  So, I've taken to methodically "painting" the stuff on the exposed tree branches and trunks and leaving the foliage alone.  What's the point in growing anything if I take no joy out of being among the plants.  At least, that's where I've landed for the time-being.

z_willus_d

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Oh, also, if you're not in an agricultural type of situation, like where your neighbors have to see the trees, then the surround kind of dusts around the area being exposed.  A lot of my trees have mulch around their ground area, and the surround dusted the mulch in an unsightly way as well.  If you're farming a hillside or acre somewhere that no one gets to see, it's totally fine.  I think the product is very innovative and works well (and as advertised), it's just messy.  It also holds to the tree even after light to medium (and successive) rain.

behlgarden

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Excellent job, pots are working as designed. 

I hand water, FLOOD the "pots" which takes about 30 minutes.  Don't want to chance any dry channels with drip.

I need to take some pix.  Greenhouse has become a jungle and moving around is getting hard to do.  I too lost about 80-90% of my avocado fruit sets but most on fairly new grafted trees that are 6-10' tall.

In haste while pruning I took off a newly grafted Orange Sherbet branch holding 17 nice fruit.  Oh well.  I mailed a friend some scions yesterday.



you got to me kidding me, all in all I have 20 mangoes in my 6-7 bushes. dang!

Mark in Texas

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Screw the make work.  Spray leaves and all.

https://www.novasource.com/en/products/surround

Mark, I purchased like $100 or more of surround and gave it a try last year.  Frankly, it took the joy of growing out of the process for me.  What I mean is that irritating white dust covering all the foliage turned my trees into something out of post-fallout Cormac McCarthy novel.  Even touching the stuff was annoying.  So, I've taken to methodically "painting" the stuff on the exposed tree branches and trunks and leaving the foliage alone.  What's the point in growing anything if I take no joy out of being among the plants.  At least, that's where I've landed for the time-being.

What's the joy of watching your plants suffer from heat exhaustion?   ;D  I find Surround easy peasy....paints a Paint In The Ass aka PITA.

Mark in Texas

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Excellent job, pots are working as designed. 

I hand water, FLOOD the "pots" which takes about 30 minutes.  Don't want to chance any dry channels with drip.

I need to take some pix.  Greenhouse has become a jungle and moving around is getting hard to do.  I too lost about 80-90% of my avocado fruit sets but most on fairly new grafted trees that are 6-10' tall.

In haste while pruning I took off a newly grafted Orange Sherbet branch holding 17 nice fruit.  Oh well.  I mailed a friend some scions yesterday.



you got to me kidding me, all in all I have 20 mangoes in my 6-7 bushes. dang!

I wish. Was another one of those aw shit moments but it's pushed some gorgeous multiple branches of OS so all is good.  I am tipping them between alternate branches (not above where multiple branches are attached at the exact same point).  I had 3 heavy branches attached at the same point with 2 dropping.

That was a newly grafted cocktail tree too. It's holding some huge Pineapple Pleasure just now turning color.  Also Juicy Peach.

BTW, I got Pierce scions from a while back and have a Pierce fruit.  Does it self pollinate?  It was a surprise when I found it while CAREFULLY  pruning that cocktail cherimoya of Behl, Pierce, Campos, and Sabor.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 08:36:30 AM by Mark in Texas »

z_willus_d

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I'm just starting to get fruit drop on a couple of the side-yard project Avocado trees.  I wanted to share it.  First we have the Stewart that ended up with three large fruit to mature (and one runt).  Two fruit dropped yesterday, 11/22/20, and then the 3rd today a day later.  I've cut into one of the fruit and it had this woody inner-layer that was inedible and kind of surrounded the flesh like an interstitial, half-developed shell or inner-peel/skin.  Bummer.  I'm hoping the others aren't the same.  Anyone know why this fruit came out this way and what it could mean; what I can do to fight it next year?  I ended up squeezing out maybe 40% of the avocado using finger and thumbs to make some OK guac.  The taste was ok -- and better I think than the Mexicola from my more mature trees that dropped a couple months back.






These three avocados dropped today, 11/23/20, and are from a Sir Prize tree.  The tree has just 2 more fruit on it, which I expect will drop any time now.  The remaining trees include a fairly well loaded Lamb-Hass with a lot of small-ish fruit, a Holiday with a singular Large fruit, and then the Pinkerton that is loaded with over 25 medium size, elongated fruit.  No idea when these three remaining trees will start to drop fruit, but all still seem hard and green in color.  Any input/insight will be appreciated, as these trees are now fruiting and harvesting for the first time.


I hope all of you are seeing great harvests this season.

z_willus_d

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Oh, I forgot to state it... in the first couple picks of Stewart, they are the ones on the South of the photo.  There are also three LARGE store bought Hass? for comparison.  Sorry for the lack of clarity with that first post.

Lovetoplant

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That "rootball" looks stellar.  It begs the question, why even grow the container.  I mean, what would be the downside of leaving the container as is?  I realize a larger container would allow for an even more expansive root system, but if you were to leave the container at that original size, would it really pose an problem for the blood orange tree in the long run?

Is you are a purist regarding Dr. Whitcomb's approach, just because you are using the system doesn't mean you shouldn't expand 4" more from the old to the new.  Meaning the diameter of the expanded, new pot, is 8" wider.  When the roots terminate they branch behind that termination point approximately 4".   I recently went to a 100 gal. pot on a Reed avocado because it's become a big tree with very large ground exposed roots.  Here's a picture of the gap I made and then backfilled on the Reed recently.

Opened up, ready for additional panels.  Notice no spin out:



Gap created by added panels:



Open this up and you'll see the white roots which were exposed when the sidewall collapsed a bit during my manhandling.  This is looking down with the pot about 1/2 backfilled.



Finished and mulched, 100 gal. bottomless pot, 10 panels.



My pots are bottomless as opposed to many of Whitcomb's customers who make up pallets of trees using a fork lift to move them off and plant.  He makes fabric circles which are designed to be placed on the bottom before processing which entrap the tree roots.  Given one season of growth they form a bottom which can be picked up without any soil loss.

My Meyer lemon is still in its original small pot.  I plan to leave it there mainly because I grafted it on Flying Dragon rootstock which dwarfs about 40%.  Tree is about 7 years old and still a runt, but bears really heavy.



Mark, what soil mixes do you add on to the gap when you expand the RB panels?  If it your own soil mixes, would you mind sharing the components?

I am afraid to repot all my fruit trees including avocado trees, afraid that they will die after repotted.  These happened before several times.  Thanks

spaugh

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I dont know why the stewarts would turn that way.  May be from extreme temperatures or some other environmental factor.  If the tree seems in good h!ealth otherwise its probably not a nutritional issue.  The guy greg alder might have ideas, he knows a lot about avocados.  Maybe he will read this or if I talk to him soon Ill tell him read your post. 

The sir prize are ready in march and april here (12 months after flower) and lamb is ready July-Novemwber here (15+ months after flower)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 06:06:39 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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I dont know why the stewarts would turn that way.  May be from extreme temperatures or some other environmental factor.  If the tree seems in good h!ealth otherwise its probably not a nutritional issue.  The guy greg alder might have ideas, he knows a lot about avocados.  Maybe he will read this or if I talk to him soon Ill tell him read your post. 

The sir prize are ready in march and april here (12 months after flower) and lamb is ready July-Novemwber here (15+ months after flower)

You have mail.

Mark in Texas

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Mark, what soil mixes do you add on to the gap when you expand the RB panels?  If it your own soil mixes, would you mind sharing the components?

I am afraid to repot all my fruit trees including avocado trees, afraid that they will die after repotted.  These happened before several times.  Thanks

Not picky.  Whatever I have stockpiled at the time - peat moss, compost, vermiculite or perlite, builder's sand, blood meal, pine bark fines.



Perhaps it's your method?  Are you looking for and correcting any root issues such as root spin out, root girdling, J rooting?  I also use Osmocote Indoor/Outdoor Plus or Polyon prills.  PITA when it ends up on the kitchen floor, under the dishwasher......



Lovetoplant

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Mark, what soil mixes do you add on to the gap when you expand the RB panels?  If it your own soil mixes, would you mind sharing the components?

I am afraid to repot all my fruit trees including avocado trees, afraid that they will die after repotted.  These happened before several times.  Thanks

Not picky.  Whatever I have stockpiled at the time - peat moss, compost, vermiculite or perlite, builder's sand, blood meal, pine bark fines.



Perhaps it's your method?  Are you looking for and correcting any root issues such as root spin out, root girdling, J rooting?  I also use Osmocote Indoor/Outdoor Plus or Polyon prills.  PITA when it ends up on the kitchen floor, under the dishwasher......



Your spilled osmocote sure looks like frass lol.

No I have all my plants in black plastic pots.  All roots were encircled when I repotted them to bigger pots.  Some died some survived , but ones that survived took few months to perk up. 

I have been thinking of using root pruning method by painting the inside pots with copper hydroxide on my next up potting.  Some members are successful this mothod.

Mark in Texas

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All roots were encircled when I repotted them to bigger pots.  Some died some survived , but ones that survived took few months to perk up. 

That's what I thought.  Pop the rootball out and using a very sharp knife start top to bottom, 4X around cutting the roots about 1/2" deep.  Make sure to cut the bottom spin out. 

Been using root pruning systems for 30 years - Griffin's Spin-Out, Rootmaker. Or you can make your own copper hydroxide paint, recipe posted here.

I have a long thread on my bottomless RootBuilder pots aka raised beds in a large greenhouse.   http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.0
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 11:12:41 AM by Mark in Texas »

Lovetoplant

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All roots were encircled when I repotted them to bigger pots.  Some died some survived , but ones that survived took few months to perk up. 

That's what I thought.  Pop the rootball out and using a very sharp knife start top to bottom, 4X around cutting the roots about 1/2" deep.  Make sure to cut the bottom spin out. 

Been using root pruning systems for 30 years - Griffin's Spin-Out, Rootmaker. Or you can make your own copper hydroxide paint, recipe posted here.

I have a long thread on my bottomless RootBuilder pots aka raised beds in a large greenhouse.   http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.0

Thank you!  Will this method of root trimming apply to avocado & mango trees too?

z_willus_d

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The sir prize are ready in march and april here (12 months after flower) and lamb is ready July-Novemwber here (15+ months after flower)

Hi Brad, just seeing this now.  So it sounds like in a way these fruit which set less than a year ago should have been hanging much longer.  Unless I'm totally losing track of time, I think the trees flowered and set fruit back earlier this year in the Spring.  Now they dropping.  Well, they are very tasty anyway, but that wood crap inside is no fun to spit out.  I need to double check my blog entries here to make sure I didn't just miss 12 months.  I would certainly love to hear if any of your pals can fix what the condition is there.  The trees seem quite healthy and happy through the Summer/Fall.  I hope that stays true through Winter.  The Lamb-HASS, Holiday, and Pinkerton all have yet to show any color and are rock solid with no fruit drop, yet.

Thanks!

z_willus_d

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Yeah, just double-checked my sanity and all this fruit did set earlier this year in the late-April early May timeframe.  So I guess that's record pace to get from fruit set to ripe and dropping -- for an Avocado.  There has to be a price to pay for that expediency.

z_willus_d

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I dont know why the stewarts would turn that way.  May be from extreme temperatures or some other environmental factor.  If the tree seems in good h!ealth otherwise its probably not a nutritional issue.  The guy greg alder might have ideas, he knows a lot about avocados.  Maybe he will read this or if I talk to him soon Ill tell him read your post. 

The sir prize are ready in march and april here (12 months after flower) and lamb is ready July-Novemwber here (15+ months after flower)

You have mail.
That mail was for Brad, right Mark?  I have no mail.