Which cultivars are renamed, or just the same? Label swappers for profit?

[johnb51]

The folks that run Pine Island Nursery still have me steamed over the name change of the patented 'Young' mango.  Now that they have the facts, they refuse to call it by the correct name.  Talking about a marketing ploy!

 

Besides, did anyone ever ask Tim Tebow if he wanted a mango named after him?  A football player with a fruit variety named after him?  That seems very weird and inappropriate!   Also, I was under the impression that it was the University of Florida (IFAS T.R.E.C.?) that was behind the name change as Tebow was their star athlete, and PIN and the other nurseries have just gone along with it.  If it were a worthwhile but forgotten mango variety, I can see some good in it.  But yeah, let's go back to calling it YOUNG now.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

The folks that run Pine Island Nursery still have me steamed over the name change of the patented 'Young' mango.  Now that they have the facts, they refuse to call it by the correct name.  Talking about a marketing ploy!

That would make sense Mr Young! They switched names on your mango!

I never knew this! Thanks for pointing it out!  I thought they just created it.

I will honor your name, and always call them "Young".

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Turns out I hear the new Tebow, is child of Young mango...and not just been renamed.

anyone else heard this?

The folks that run Pine Island Nursery still have me steamed over the name change of the patented 'Young' mango.  Now that they have the facts, they refuse to call it by the correct name.  Talking about a marketing ploy!

That would make sense Mr Young! They switched names on your mango!

I never knew this! Thanks for pointing it out!  I thought they just created it.

I will honor your name, and always call them "Young".

[natsgarden123]

Are older established varieties like Haden , trademarked?
In other words, could someone like me, sell Hayden as the Natalie Mango?


also, how long does a trademark last?  Prescription drugs, as an example, are patented for a finite time, then anyone can produce them and name them what they want.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

I think patented means bred by man, not nature. so no u can't patent haden...but there are some gray areas...trademark is just a name or phrase or logo, that an entity or person can have the rights to for business

you could grow your own hadens and trademark the name, humungous haden...but you still couldn't patent your trees...unless they were a direct product of your efforts in breeding (etc..)

this has been my understanding.

Are older established varieties like Haden , trademarked?
In other words, could someone like me, sell Hayden as the Natalie Mango?


also, how long does a trademark last?  Prescription drugs, as an example, are patented for a finite time, then anyone can produce them and name them what they want.

[fruitlovers]

Seems to me from my limited perspective that the naming of fruits, especially mangos, in Florida is a wild free for all and anything goes! Having expensive attorneys to back up your claims might also help!

[Squam256]

Turns out I hear the new Tebow, is child of Young mango...and not just been renamed.

anyone else heard this?

The folks that run Pine Island Nursery still have me steamed over the name change of the patented 'Young' mango.  Now that they have the facts, they refuse to call it by the correct name.  Talking about a marketing ploy!

That would make sense Mr Young! They switched names on your mango!

I never knew this! Thanks for pointing it out!  I thought they just created it.

I will honor your name, and always call them "Young".

Where did you hear this? Because its incorrect. The Tebow is the same thing as the Young.

[KarenRei]

Wonder how much a gene assay costs.  Should be quite easy if it's not too expensive to prove whether it's the same plant or not.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

a good friend told me' this, who knows the people at pine island....I am simply repeating what I've been told, I have no evidence.

is this mango cultivar for Maury?

Maury Mango?

Turns out I hear the new Tebow, is child of Young mango...and not just been renamed.

anyone else heard this?

The folks that run Pine Island Nursery still have me steamed over the name change of the patented 'Young' mango.  Now that they have the facts, they refuse to call it by the correct name.  Talking about a marketing ploy!

That would make sense Mr Young! They switched names on your mango!

I never knew this! Thanks for pointing it out!  I thought they just created it.

I will honor your name, and always call them "Young".

Where did you hear this? Because its incorrect. The Tebow is the same thing as the Young.

[murahilin]

Are older established varieties like Haden , trademarked?
In other words, could someone like me, sell Hayden as the Natalie Mango?


also, how long does a trademark last?  Prescription drugs, as an example, are patented for a finite time, then anyone can produce them and name them what they want.

Trademarks and patents are different. As Adam said, trademarks are words, phrases, logos and other unique indicators that pretty much have an unlimited lifespan as long as its kept in use and does not become "generic". Think of the Champagne mango or the Sweetheart lychee. Both are trademarked names for already existing cultivars. So you could definitely sell the Haden as the Natalie mango.

A patent on the other hand is for 20 years in the US, the same for plants as for prescription drugs as you mentioned. It does not necessarily have to be "bred by man" as Adam mentioned because the original Haden could likely have been patented if plant patents were available back then which they weren't.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Thanks miruhalin,

that was part of the grey area I was referring to I suppose.

but are u saying I there exists patents on plants that aren't a result of some human breeding them?  I thought  that I can patent a plant that is a mutant maybe...but not just a species like Eugenia klotzschiana.

I thought God had the rights to that? 

LOL

thanks for helping me understand this mess we've gotten into with plant patents and trademarks, and suits and ties, and lawyers and such.

Are older established varieties like Haden , trademarked?
In other words, could someone like me, sell Hayden as the Natalie Mango?


also, how long does a trademark last?  Prescription drugs, as an example, are patented for a finite time, then anyone can produce them and name them what they want.

Trademarks and patents are different. As Adam said, trademarks are words, phrases, logos and other unique indicators that pretty much have an unlimited lifespan as long as its kept in use and does not become "generic". Think of the Champagne mango or the Sweetheart lychee. Both are trademarked names for already existing cultivars. So you could definitely sell the Haden as the Natalie mango.

A patent on the other hand is for 20 years in the US, the same for plants as for prescription drugs as you mentioned. It does not necessarily have to be "bred by man" as Adam mentioned because the original Haden could likely have been patented if plant patents were available back then which they weren't.

[natsgarden123]

Are older established varieties like Haden , trademarked?
In other words, could someone like me, sell Hayden as the Natalie Mango?


also, how long does a trademark last?  Prescription drugs, as an example, are patented for a finite time, then anyone can produce them and name them what they want.

Trademarks and patents are different. As Adam said, trademarks are words, phrases, logos and other unique indicators that pretty much have an unlimited lifespan as long as its kept in use and does not become "generic". Think of the Champagne mango or the Sweetheart lychee. Both are trademarked names for already existing cultivars. So you could definitely sell the Haden as the Natalie mango.

A patent on the other hand is for 20 years in the US, the same for plants as for prescription drugs as you mentioned. It does not necessarily have to be "bred by man" as Adam mentioned because the original Haden could likely have been patented if plant patents were available back then which they weren't.

Thanks for the info

fyi- patents on prescription meds varies ( ?? reason)
It can be as little as 5 years for some medications

[murahilin]

Thanks for the info

fyi- patents on prescription meds varies ( ?? reason)
It can be as little as 5 years for some medications

No. Utility patents are for 20 years from the date of filing.

The confusion as to why it seems as though it as short as 5 years for some medications is that the patent time begins from the date of filing the patent and not from the date the medication is released to the public.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

I'm still under the impression u can only patent things that you worked to create,  or the likes...

I believe u can't just go into the woods and patent some species you find...it would have to be more of a narrow scope than a whole species..maybe a rare variation, or mutation.

If this was the case, someone would have patented miracle fruit and camu camu years ago...let alone Cacao and Coca.

[murahilin]

Adam, I'm on my phone so I don't really feel like typing a long response but you're pretty much correct but there are some exceptions and stuff that I will get try to post about later tonight.

[natsgarden123]

You don't have to have a patent to sell a named something-I think

I could sell the Natalie Mango ( really a haden) without patenting it, if I'm correct. Other's would be able to sell the Natalie Mango and rename it if they want.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Patent is like an invention, so unless you invented something, it's not eligible.


But u can trademark a name of any fruit.

You don't have to have a patent to sell a named something-I think

I could sell the Natalie Mango ( really a haden) without patenting it, if I'm correct. Other's would be able to sell the Natalie Mango and rename it if they want.

[murahilin]

I'm still under the impression u can only patent things that you worked to create,  or the likes...

I believe u can't just go into the woods and patent some species you find...it would have to be more of a narrow scope than a whole species..maybe a rare variation, or mutation.

If this was the case, someone would have patented miracle fruit and camu camu years ago...let alone Cacao and Coca.

You are right that someone can't just go and patent a species they found but that doesn't mean that you have to actively cross pollinate the plant yourself to be able to patent it. You can simply plant a seed and patent the outcome as long as the seedling is genetically different from the tree the seed came from. If you read some of the plant patents, they go on to describe the characteristics of the cultivar and why its patentable usually showing how its new and improved and stuff like that.

The exception to creating the the plant itself that I was referring to earlier was that it is possible to patent a gene in a plant that you did not create. I think that's possibly why countries like Brazil are so wary of letting any other country have access to their plant material because citizens of other countries can take material out and then patent a gene that can be used medicinally or something. There's a lot more to it that I really don't know but you can google and find out a lot.

[murahilin]

You don't have to have a patent to sell a named something-I think

I could sell the Natalie Mango ( really a haden) without patenting it, if I'm correct. Other's would be able to sell the Natalie Mango and rename it if they want.

No one said that you had to patent it to sell it. Nor do you have to trademark the name to sell it.

[fruitlovers]

There is a third element not discussed here besides patents and trademarks, and that is registration of a cultivar name. Not a legal step, but an important step to ensure worthiness/uniqueness, and cut down on confusion. But it seems that most in Florida are not bothering with that step?

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Oscar,

It's weird because when you create a cultivar, you don't necessarily have to trademark the name.  It just seems to work out, for the most part (until someone swaps the name! and confuses us all!)

I wonder what agency you register a cultivar name with? and what are the costs and efforts associated with registration of a cultivar name?

[fruitlovers]

Oscar,

It's weird because when you create a cultivar, you don't necessarily have to trademark the name.  It just seems to work out, for the most part (until someone swaps the name! and confuses us all!)

I wonder what agency you register a cultivar name with? and what are the costs and efforts associated with registration of a cultivar name?

I think for tropical fruits the easiest is to register them through CRFG. http://www.crfg.org For temperate fruits you can register through American Pomological Society.
http://americanpomological.org/registrars.html

[morris4000]

I keep hearing rumors that the orange sherbert is the same as the lemon zest variety mango.    true or false?

[bsbullie]

I keep hearing rumors that the orange sherbert is the same as the lemon zest variety mango.    true or false?

without rehashing a whole lot of info that can be found by using that wonderful google website as well as this site, I believe...lets just say they are the same (you may see some labeled one way and some the other but ultimately the only official variety is Lemon Zest).

[murahilin]

They are not the same mango.

At one point, the mango that is now known as Lemon Zest was known as Orange Sherbert. That is why the LZ pots used to say OS on them because when they were originally grafted they were still under the name OS. The name was changed because another PPK seedling was also good and that was named Orange Sherbert instead and the LZ was given back its original LZ name.

The LZ is the 27-1 and was originally called LZ. They changed the name to OS, but then changed the name back to LZ and named another mango OS.