Sumo Citrus

[EricSC]

sc4001992,

Is it possible somehow it is mixed with Kiyomi?   Kiyomi fruits can get 200g seedless or, if pollinated,with some seeds.

The fruits on your pics do look similar to the Kiyomi pics on web.

My "sumo" fruits look very similar to yours but I will wait for one or two more months to pick up. 

[sc4001992]

Millet, same here, my Ponkan fruit has more of a neck than these sumo fruits and the sumo branches are grafted on the Ponkan tree.



Eric, no I double checked my grafted labels, these are not Kiyomi, I have that grafted on this same tree so it's easy for me to compare the fruits side by side. Also the leaves and growth habit is different. I know these photos are all sumo, each branch I have labeled (9/2019, shiranui). No mistake this time, the last photo I took of the fruit comparision may have been a mistake but not these. If you look at the photos, it was taken on the rooftop where all the grafted fruits are accessible.

The photo showing the Ponkan fruit is the main tree, and on this tree I have the Sumo, Kiyomi, and other varieties grafted on them so I know where each branch is grafted (also with tags).

[sc4001992]

.

[sc4001992]

This may explain why there seems to be different shaped Shiranui/Sumo fruits from the CCPP budwood order and why some have seeds.

They say in the description of Shiranui in the citrusvariety database that "DK, 02/09/2020: there are three accessions of ’Shiranui’ legally present"

https://citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus/CRC4249.html

Also if you read further into the notes, it states "TJSW, 12/12/2019:" they found many seeds in the fruits they grow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekopon

[sc4001992]

Here's some shiranui/sumo fruits I picked this weekend. These are budwood that I grafted from UCR, VI-860, on 2019.

[Seanny]

 Last year my Sumo tree had 3 fruits.
Those fruits were seedless.

This year that same tree has 18 fruits.
I ate 1 fruit.
It had way too many seeds.

I may net tree this spring to see if fruits have seeds later.

[sc4001992]

I picked more/most of the sumo fruits from my 2019 grafted branches since the fruit seemed to have a little give when you squeeze it. Most of the fruits did not have seeds, but they still do not taste good, not sweet yet. I will wait until mid-Feb to pick the last bunch from my 2017 grafted branches. I noticed that these sumo fruits do not get as sweet as the ones from the asian markets.

If I compare the taste of Ponkan with Sumo, the Ponkan is much sweeter (consistently) even though it has some seeds (3-6 in each fruit).

[Yorgos]

Is the sweetness for Sumo a result of cumulative heat units like for grapefruit?

[brian]

I've eaten almost all of mine already, only a half dozen left on the tree.  They were fairly sour in December, but have been becoming sweeter since Christmas and now are quite good.  My waist-high tree had 30-40 fruits this season, it is quite productive.

I have been hacking back quite a few of my in-ground citrus trees (mostly blood oranges), but this one will stay another year and quite possibly for a very long time. 

[sc4001992]

Yorgos, I read that the sumo farmers have another process they follow after the fruits are picked. They wait about another 30days to let the acid go away and then the sweetness comes out. But if you wait until its fully ripe on the tree then it should taste pretty decent. For me it would be optimum at end of Feb.

[EricSC]

sc4001992，

The potential downside to have the fruits hanging on tree is that it may supress the spring blooming.  This process may turn the tree into alternative bearing, which is often seen with late ripe citrus trees.  Gold nugget is typical this way.

[sc4001992]

Eric,

I rather eat good tasting sumo than to pick it early and it isn't sweet and not worth eating yet.

[EricSC]

sc4001992，

I am with you for the taste of citrus fruits.   My gold nugget has about 300 fruits which are just about to turn color.   I remembered it will get sweet in March but really sweet in May or June. 
To reduce the alternative bearing, the fruits will have to be picked in March but the fruits will be bland.

[sc4001992]

Seems like people in San Diego have fruits ripen later than here in Orange County. All my citrus completely ripens by March. I have been eating my Gold Nuggets now, also have hundreds on the tree. My Honey murcot and A. murcot fruits are all ripening now and it is sweet.

[EricSC]

In SD, due to the ocean - desert (~20 miles) with conflicting temperature and winds,  plus hills, canon, channals, each zipcode or sub-zipcod has micro weather which varies a lot and day to day.

I tasted a Gold Nuggets fruit today.  It is solid like a rock and has a trace of sweet with strong sourness.  Will be patient.

[mbmango]

Grafted Sumo just last year, so let 1 fruit hold to see how it would do.  With store fruits, I like it when they have just a bit of room in the skin.  This one is rock hard though, but it smells awesome and the Gold Nuggets are starting to flavor up, so I thought I'd pick it already.  May wait a week or so to see if it softens up a little.

Sumo on bottom left, without much of a knob.  It did grow "upside down", so...


One of the larger Nuggets:


Not that large compared to store bought, but perhaps average

[Goyo626]

I have been picking some for the last 2 weeks as well but still not sweet, more acid than sweet even though fruit looks ripe color. Last year the best tasting for me was in Jan-Feb. March was to late and fruit was not as juicy.

VI 860   SHIRANUI MANDARIN that i grafted in june 2020. I tried first fruit on 18th of dec. The color had not fully turned. I just wanted to try it to see how it changes over the coming months. No seeds found on this particular fruit. Very acid with a brix of 13. I expect allowing acidity to settle for a month would produce a very good fruit. Texture was “meaty” the individual vesicles are distinct and produce a unique experience compared to other mandarins and oranges. Definitely looking forward to the remaining fruit in a month or so.

Tried the rest of the fruit. Some were seedless others had some seeds. I think the most seedy fruit had like 10 seeds. But do to the size of the fruit it doesnt seem like excessive seeds.

[sc4001992]

mbmango, your Sumo and Gold Nugget looks pretty good colored up. Let us know when you taste your Sumo, look to see  if you find any seeds in the Sumo.

My Gold Nugget tree has many fruits, but they don't look as large as yours. I have been picking one or two to see if they are ripe but still not sweet, more acidic.

Goyo626, interesting that you found seeds in the Sumo. How many Sumo do you think you ate for the 10 seeds you found? I picked one very large Sumo (2019 graft) and gave it to a friend, and she said it was the best mandarin she had but she did fine 3 seeds in the one fruit. I plan on picking some Sumo from my older grafted trees (2017) on Vallentine Day and will report back on the total seeds I find in them.

Of the ripe mandarins in Jan-Feb, my Honey Murcott (CA honey) is the sweetest one, but it does have many seeds.

So far my favortie tasting mandarin this season is Ponkan, not as sweet as Honey Murcott but the Ponkan is almost seedless and fruits are much bigger, and it peels easy. The Honey Murcott skin sticks to the flesh so it's not as easy to peel them, and there's a lot of seeds in each fruit to spit out.

[Goyo626]

Goyo626, interesting that you found seeds in the Sumo. How many Sumo do you think you ate for the 10 seeds you found? I picked one very large Sumo (2019 graft) and gave it to a friend, and she said it was the best mandarin she had but she did fine 3 seeds in the one fruit. I plan on picking some Sumo from my older grafted trees (2017) on Vallentine Day and will report back on the total seeds I find in them.

The 10 seeds were from one large fruit. The fruits i have sampled have ranged from completely seedless to 10 seeds with most having 0-3 seeds. The large size of the fruits makes it easy to remove the seeds though. I wonder if the commercial sumo growers bag their trees or if they have a seedless selection of shiranui fruit.

[sc4001992]

Goyo626, I'm guessing the UCR CCPP budwood trees are mixed strains of the Sumo they used for selling budwood. I don't remember having more than 3 seeds total from all my fruits (20) last year on my scions I purchased from them on 2017. I planted those 3 seeds and one has grown very well, its about 4 ft tall so I hope I get fruits in a few years.

If you look at my earlier post above, I mentioned that UCR said there are three accessions (versions) of the shiranui in their fields so you never know which one you are getting.

"TJSW, 12/12/2019: The CVC accession had fruit for the first time, even though the trees were just planted last year. Approximately a dozen fruit on each of two trees. Externally the fruit appears mostly correct in size, shape and all have the characteristic large neck, see photos.  However, I opened a few of the fruit and was surprised to see many seeds."

[Seanny]

I ate another fruit.
It had 5 seeds.
Still not sweet.

[sc4001992]

Seanny,

What year did you get the UCR CCPP budwood for your grafted branches?
I think the first ones sold in 2017 may be the best variety of sumo.

Kaz

[Lovetoplant]

Seems like people in San Diego have fruits ripen later than here in Orange County. All my citrus completely ripens by March. I have been eating my Gold Nuggets now, also have hundreds on the tree. My Honey murcot and A. murcot fruits are all ripening now and it is sweet.

When will your Florida murcott honey ripen? I have a 10yr old growing from seed just starting to turn color.  This is its second year of setting fruits and in good numbers.  Last year it only gave me 3 fruits and not quite sweet like store bought.  Hopefully the fruits will taste better this year.

By chance, will seed grown citrus fruits taste same as its parent?

[sc4001992]

Lovetoplant, the Florida murcott fruit is also grafted on the same tree as my Honey murcott and the third murcott variety so it's easy for me to compare the ripening of these fruits on my tree. The Florida murcott ripens last for me, it just started to become fully ripe now on half the tree so it should be good to eat in Feb-Mar. I noticed that there are two different varieties of mandarin which is called Florida murcott, I have both types. Type 1 has the thin skin, bright orange color, sticks to flesh, many seeds, average sweet unless you pick it at the perfect time. Type 2 has the thinner skin, not as bright orange, more like the color of Honey mandarin yellow, skin sticks to flesh, many seeds, but very sweet. I would say this type 2 murcott I have is as sweet as the CA Honey but both has some acidic taste which I like.

I couldn't tell you which citrus variety seeds grow true to parent fruit. I think it was mentioned Sumo seeds will give true Sumo fruits, I will find out when my seedling tree fruits in a few years.

[EricSC]

One time I bought some (I guess is some sort of Murcott) from a local store.   They have thin skin, bright orange/red color, sticks to flesh, many seeds, very sweet like honey.  To eat it, you will have to cut them into pieces.  Very messy to eat them.