Author Topic: Not enough Durian Discussion  (Read 17551 times)

fruit nerd

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #275 on: July 22, 2022, 05:09:31 PM »
Absolutely. I have learnt my lesson now. All the durians I have planted recently have cloth for sun protection. Definitely makes a big difference. Another interesting thing, when a young durian tree is getting too much sun, the leaves will also be a lot smaller. Regarding the unprotected tree I have, it probably was around two years old when I planted it and it has been in the ground for about a year. Still quite young obviously but I feel like it doesn't quite need so much protection now. It may well be that it is winter now and it might begin to suffer again in spring. If that is the case, I will probably do something to give it some protection from the afternoon sun.

Finca La Isla

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #276 on: July 22, 2022, 05:34:59 PM »
Cassowary, we plant both grafted and seedling durian trees. The thing about the seedling trees is that not all those trees will produce good quality fruit. About 35 years ago hundreds of seedling durian trees were distributed by an NGO to farmers in my county. Some of those old trees produce decent fruit but a large portion have inferior quality.
I realize that planting seedlings is the only way to get better material and so we plant lots of them. But for somebody that is only going to plant a couple I recommend grafted in most cases and, in general, a mix of seedlings and grafted.

I have not seen any root rot here in durian. We see it in avocado frequently. I noticed that in Malaysia they use a commercial compost that doesnít have any manure since they figure that can lead to root rot. Our farm is organic so we rely on manure for nitrogen. We apply microorganisms every 2 weeks unless it is dry.

We stake the planting sites of new durian trees with glyrcydium posts that are actually kind of close, say, 50-60cm from the tree. These nitrogen fixers quickly make a shade that we adjust by pruning and use as a chop and drop.
Peter

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #277 on: July 23, 2022, 06:43:06 PM »
Cassowary- thatís quite an info download. Thank you.

Peter - what is ďglyrcydium postsĒ?  A nitrogen fixing plant?

One idea Iím pondering is applying the same concept used with mangoes to speed up seedling selection - grafting seedling scions onto a mature tree branch to force flowers earlier.  With durian having such a long period until hitting its peak flavor, even that would be a slow process.

Is anyone also growing lowianus? Graveolens?

ben mango

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #278 on: July 23, 2022, 07:00:47 PM »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliricidia_sepium

Itís often planted alongside fruit trees in a permaculture type of setting as a chop and drop/ mulch plant. It can be used as a post for growing dragonfruit , pepper, vanilla etc.

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #279 on: July 24, 2022, 09:47:57 AM »
Hereís a champedek being partially shaded by gliricidia.  The page wouldnít load another photo I have of a young durian with a post on either side more effectively shading the delicate tree.  These living posts are used very commonly for fences in CR. They are very useful and many farms make good use of them. I also use them to shade cacao. In southern Mexico theyíre called madre cacao.

In our area we are getting some very good quality fruit of of durian trees that are only 8 years old. Weíve had the fruits in Asia, even from 100 year old trees. Personally, I think there is some degree of hype about old trees. The thing about a place like Penang is that there is such a durian culture and SO many different select durians. We canít do that any time soon but I donít believe you canít get very good durian off of young trees. I would like to see a blind taste test!
Peter

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #280 on: July 24, 2022, 11:44:16 AM »
Hereís a champedek being partially shaded by gliricidia.  The page wouldnít load another photo I have of a young durian with a post on either side more effectively shading the delicate tree.  These living posts are used very commonly for fences in CR. They are very useful and many farms make good use of them. I also use them to shade cacao. In southern Mexico theyíre called madre cacao.

In our area we are getting some very good quality fruit of of durian trees that are only 8 years old. Weíve had the fruits in Asia, even from 100 year old trees. Personally, I think there is some degree of hype about old trees. The thing about a place like Penang is that there is such a durian culture and SO many different select durians. We canít do that any time soon but I donít believe you canít get very good durian off of young trees. I would like to see a blind taste test!
Peter

Thank you. Iíll study this chop and drop nitrogen fixer some more. I also agree hype is probable in Penang. Whether itís quality taking decades or planting on slopes or 3 named varieties selling at 3x the price of everything else, I wouldnít take any of it as iron clad.

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #281 on: July 24, 2022, 02:31:03 PM »
Looks great Peter. I use Inga and acacia the same way as you with the gliricidia. Our site is a bit too wet for them gliricidia. Seems only 15% of the cuttings take, and I've had some of my larger 2 year old cuttings fall over in a small wind storm. But we do have a few doing really well. Anyway I plant out my trees every 5' and then put my desirable cropping trees in the middle of them. Yay plant friends and easy biomass

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #282 on: July 24, 2022, 09:07:40 PM »
I had a couple of veterans who have been growing durian here for more than 40 years and have been to all the durian hotspots around the world tell me that a humble gan yao fresh fallen off the tree is as good as any of these big name varieties coming out of Malaysia.

I haven't been to Malaysia myself and tasted the big names myself but thought i would share what i was told.

Future

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #283 on: July 25, 2022, 06:44:15 PM »
I had a couple of veterans who have been growing durian here for more than 40 years and have been to all the durian hotspots around the world tell me that a humble gan yao fresh fallen off the tree is as good as any of these big name varieties coming out of Malaysia.

I haven't been to Malaysia myself and tasted the big names myself but thought i would share what i was told.

I met one such veteran last month. He was one of two people with permission to collect material from some esoteric Malaysian locations and successful brought Durian to Aussie land 40 years ago. He was cycling through Malaysia and stopped in a the farm @DurianWriter Ďs tour used as basecamp.

Ived had neighborhood Durian as good as any but itís a dice roll.

cassowary

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #284 on: July 26, 2022, 04:34:47 AM »
 Another interesting thing, when a young durian tree is getting too much sun, the leaves will also be a lot smaller.
[/quote]

Have seen that too.

And I have planted graveolens, red and yellow. had one lowianus but died cause was already weak :( also got acutifolia, thanks to maryoto, what a brother!

"We stake the planting sites of new durian trees with glyrcydium posts that are actually kind of close, say, 50-60cm from the tree. These nitrogen fixers quickly make a shade that we adjust by pruning and use as a chop and drop. "

I wish I had gliricidia sepium! Bought half a kilo of seeds and none came up, sowed in all different ways and spots! have looked everywhere i can for seeds in Australia but it scares! I am almost giving up! But I actually found out that poinciana does take quite well from a cutting in the field if it's moist.

Yeah for sure there is probably some hype and some truth about old tree's fruit flavor but I have also experienced that fruit vary from year to year so hard to tell really. It's the most complicated fruit for sure.

Spenc, haven't tried inga field cuttings yet, might have to try that out! thanks for sharing

Gone tropo, can tell you from my experience that a proper ripe Thailand grown Kan yao is amazing!!! I still prefer some very bitter and small seedling varieties that I got to taste in South Thailand. Just durian baan.

Future,
I wounder how long it would take to have the graft fruit on the host durian? And it probably have to be grafted quite close to the trunk as durian is cauliflorous, mango's fruit is borne on the en of branches (terminal) so it would be easy there, just graft at the end of any branch. Have anyone tested this field graft method for durian to potentially be able to evaluate seedlings faster??!

Wish ya all odorous durian sessions!

from the jungle
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spencerw

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #285 on: July 26, 2022, 03:37:33 PM »
Ingas do grow from cuttings. But they grow just as fast, with a better root system via seed. Also seems like a poor take rate for cuttings

Future

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #286 on: July 26, 2022, 04:32:51 PM »
Another interesting thing, when a young durian tree is getting too much sun, the leaves will also be a lot smaller.
.

Future,
I wounder how long it would take to have the graft fruit on the host durian? And it probably have to be grafted quite close to the trunk as durian is cauliflorous, mango's fruit is borne on the en of branches (terminal) so it would be easy there, just graft at the end of any branch. Have anyone tested this field graft method for durian to potentially be able to evaluate seedlings faster??!

Wish ya all odorous durian sessions!

from the jungle
cassowary
[/quote]

I have not come across anyone doing this on Durian yet. But if not, itís time to get started. 🧐

cassowary

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #287 on: July 31, 2022, 09:46:55 PM »
I am so ignorant to grafting so I don't think I will be pioneering this method haha.
Future, if you try please lettuce know :D

Thanks for the encouragement on inga, will do a trial this week when they get a "chop and drop" without drop haha!

Have anyone noticed any difference in response for Durio zibethinus with a companion plant? Like Inga sp, gliricida sp, Fabace sp. etc.
I know Douglas Fir does well with alder as the alder shares it's fixed N with the DF and the DF shares something else back. Through mychorizea.
I read about the DF and Alder in Suzan Simmards book, "Finding the mother tree" and immedietly started to question what tree's grow naturally among druians and would any of them connect to the same MR (mychorizea) and share nutrients.

I want to do a field experiment but it's very hard to get enough keranji and petai seeds.
Anyone who want's to sell or barter them please PM :D

It seams like Dialium indum Keranji, Parkia speciosa Petai appear in the same forest as most Durio sp. "Mixed Lowland dipterocarp and Riverine Forest"
According to Anthony lamb in "A guide to wild fruits of Borneo"
Both of those are in the Fabaceae family.

I have a feeling that there is an amazing amount of knowlage that can increase yeilds and long term sustainablity of our relation to Durian, we just haven't conucted enough experiments or observed well enough. This goes beyond providng fallen leafs and swigs for N incorporation into the soil by decay, it's a intentional funneling of N from one tree to another.

Both inga and gliricida are not from the same botanical original area as Durio so I don't know if they would be able to attach to the same mychorizea. I have never seen any mychorizea on durian roots so they might be in symbiosis with arbuscular mycho where I live or there's an absent of the correct spores??.
Anyone seen any ectomycorrhizal fungi on durian roots?
Have a 2000x microscope on order so will see if I can disect and find the AM. I know there is one research paper on the topic:
https://ejournal.forda-mof.org/ejournal-litbang/index.php/JPTH/article/view/5506

I think pinto peanut and those ground cover's are good for the early years of esablishment but for maximum yields and growth there should probobly be a tree companion.
Durio Kutjensis is calssified as a understory tree at max 20/25m but D. zib and D. graveolens are classified as main canopy tree's on the richer clay soils reaching 40/50m in height accoriding to A lamb.
A condition with a symbiotic tree would probobly create the best possibilities for hight fruit quality and regular bearing, eliminating farm inputs on some soils and just the need to protect from mammals and birds.

Peter, have you seen a decline in tree growth in any tree when you chopped a gliricida close by etc??
Maybe that reduced the total N uptaken by the main crop tree.?

sorry for the spelling errors.

Peas,
cassowary
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fruit nerd

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #288 on: August 01, 2022, 08:08:04 AM »
Somewhat unrelated but I planted a pigeon pea between a jackfruit and chempedak. Interesting, the grass around the pigeon pea went yellow for a while, almost like herbicide had been sprayed around the plant (though the grass didn't die and did green up again). With pigeon pea being a N fixer, I was confused by the negative effect it had on the grass. Not sure if the rapid growth briefly depleted nutrients. If that is the case, could it be detrimental to plant something like a pigeon pea next to a young tree (such as a durian, to bring myself back on topic, ha).

Finca La Isla

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #289 on: August 02, 2022, 09:44:46 AM »
The idea of companion trees is interesting. There are a couple of important crops grown seriously in CR that obviously do better with companion trees. Coffee is generally grown with erithyrna. Cacao is grown with lots of different shade trees. Originally they just used forest trees but now itís common to see inga and other nitrogen fixers. In southern mexico the common name for gliricida is madre cacao.
But both cacao and coffee benefit from some shade through their whole lives where it seems that durian is a canopy tree or even emergent forest tree that, once mature, craves direct sun.
So in my groves the very young durian trees are dominated by the gliricidia within a short time the durian will dominate the site. Perhaps within 3-5 years the original gliricidia will have disappeared. But there are others around and there is lots of native forest on my farm in corridors. The forest supports the living soil but also brings the risk of large trees falling into the cultivated area. If they fall cleanly then itís a gift. If not, itís a costly trade off. But the trees grow well.
Peter

jimreevescairns

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #290 on: October 02, 2022, 02:18:06 AM »
Hi all
Wonder f any of you can tell me what is going on with the latest flush on my sunan durian. Seem to have a lot of die off - tree seems otherwise healthy and the 2 trees next to it are fine



Is it a nutrient deficiency ??
Cheers
Jim

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #291 on: October 02, 2022, 06:16:37 AM »
Totally unrelated but how did you get your hands on a Sunan durian? Still have hopes of getting a trellis system setup with a bunch of clones. Hard to get known varieties. I currently have 4 clones and bunch of seedlings. Would like to get that to around 20 varieties but that might take a long time, ha.

jimreevescairns

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #292 on: October 02, 2022, 06:32:18 AM »
Hey mate
I got mine from Trina but I donít think they do them anymore. There are a couple of folk up in Bloomfield who have trees and sell grafts sometime. They also have a few other varieties.
Drop me a pm to remind me and I will ask. Iím getting a D190 and a Hew 7 from them too.
Iíll be having an amateur go at grafting mine soon - might be lucky
Cheers Jim

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #293 on: October 03, 2022, 07:51:31 PM »
Hi all
Wonder f any of you can tell me what is going on with the latest flush on my sunan durian. Seem to have a lot of die off - tree seems otherwise healthy and the 2 trees next to it are fine



Is it a nutrient deficiency ??
Cheers
Jim

Jim i havent seen anything like that on my trees looks a little concerning to me, i doubt its a nutrient deficiency would normally show up as some type of yellowing in the leaves for most nutrients if lacking.  Hopefully its not some sort of disease ?

Im currently dealing with some sort of trunk borers that bore pretty serious holes into the trunk of my P88 not sure what creature is doing it but very frustrating. 

Finca La Isla

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #294 on: October 03, 2022, 08:13:44 PM »
We get stem borers. They are the larvae of a weevel or beetle.
Peter

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #295 on: October 03, 2022, 08:20:08 PM »
We get stem borers. They are the larvae of a weevel or beetle.
Peter

Peter is there any way to stop them? i have searched the trees but cant find anything, just seems you wake up and there are holes in your tree? I have lorzban i can spray not sure if that works but its very toxic stuff

fruit nerd

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #296 on: October 03, 2022, 08:59:12 PM »
My nextdoor neighour and I have both lost citrus trees in the last year due to borers. How old is the P88? I'm hopeful that my P88 will be the first to fruit since it is growing very rigorously.

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #297 on: October 03, 2022, 11:41:22 PM »
My nextdoor neighour and I have both lost citrus trees in the last year due to borers. How old is the P88? I'm hopeful that my P88 will be the first to fruit since it is growing very rigorously.

Damn I might have to research this a bit more, interestingly they only attack the P88 and it is my biggest and healthiest tree, its been in the ground since july last year.

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #298 on: October 04, 2022, 09:24:10 AM »
What we have here may be quite different but what happens is that tiny eggs are layer, usually on the foliage. A very small larvae then starts boring, growing quickly as it advances. Generally, we spot this activity, cut the affected part away and the tree recovers.
A poison would have to be systemic and routinely applied during the season. Maybe something like bacculis thurgensis could work.
Peter

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #299 on: October 04, 2022, 06:55:37 PM »
Thanks Peter, sorry i didnt mean to take over from Jim reeves issue with the dying foilage on new shoots? Anyone else have any comments on that maybe Peter has seen this ?

 

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