Author Topic: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Here + sorted out!  (Read 6006 times)

Paraponera

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Shipped!
« Reply #75 on: December 29, 2021, 08:35:28 PM »
That is strange indeed. Every recalcitrant seed that anyone on this forum gets from outside the US comes with a medium.
"Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better."

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nattyfroootz

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Shipped!
« Reply #76 on: December 30, 2021, 12:15:00 PM »
Some questions I asked the USDA officer and the responses.  Some things I still need to figure out, as in, how to specify a permit that is intended for "Planting and Propagation", a different permit than the SLOS?

Hope this helps others in their imports in the future.


The seller includes a Phytosanitary certificate from Brazil, but I notice that the stipulations of my permit mention that if i meet the requirements of my permit a Phytosanitary is not necessary to be included.  Does the inclusion of a Brazilian PC negate any part of my permit and therefore require different procedures on packaging, shipment, etc.?
Due to the fact that this shipment was not in compliance with the Small Lots of Seeds (SLOS) permit conditions, a phytosanitary certificate is required. If you were in compliance with all of the shipping and packing requirements, a PC would not be required.
 
If the seller gets a Phytosanitary certificate in Brazil, does that mean that I should have one for US entry as well?
Excluding specific exemptions ( Small Lots of Seeds), all plants for planting offered for importation must be accompanied by a valid phytosanitary certificate issued by the exporting country
 
Are the small lots seeds permit requirements set in stone? As in, is it possible that I can have seeds shipped in a ďforeign matterĒ, amending my current conditions on my permit? Some of the seeds are recalcitrant and are therefore sensitive to drying out.
If you need to ship seeds packed in an approved packing material (vermiculite is approved), then you need to use a permit listing the scientific genus name you plan to import, the plant part seed, and the intended use of ďPlanting and PropagationĒ. The importing procedure with this new permit would be exactly the same, except you would be required to have a PC and you wouldnít have to comply with all of the extra packing and shipping conditions your current permit requires. It is very unlikely the wording of your SLOS permit will be changed, as this is a policy decision that applies to all Small Lots of Seeds permit holders.
 
I just checked out the Post-entry quarantine process and didnít see Eugenia spp. listed, and the subtext under the selection box mentioning that if it is not included in the list then it is not allowed entry at all.  Am I looking in the right area or are they just generally prohibited?
Page 6-492 lists all plant propagules other than seed as Post Entry Quarantine material when it comes from anywhere except Canada. Some of the Eugenia seeds in your shipment have sprouted, which means they are no longer regulated as seeds. This is going to result in you losing 2 packets of Eugenia seed at minimum, as you have to have the permitting done before you import that material.
 
Ultimately, I do believe that I donít have a facility that is adequate to meet post entry requirements (most likely).  Although I will be building an indoor propagation and quarantine space. Is there anywhere I can see the requirements for post entry growing facility spaces?
If you are interested in the post entry process and potentially getting a permit to import that material, I would recommend that you read chapter 5-1 to 5-10 of the Plantís for Planting manual. This will help you understand the process and requirements and give you instructions on how to move forward with the process. The rest of chapter 5 is helpful, but mostly just talks about special requirements for specific post entry genera.

K-Rimes

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Shipped!
« Reply #77 on: December 30, 2021, 03:24:20 PM »
Ooooof. Sorry Nate, that sucks. My seeds came in fine but were a small order. I think that once you get to big kahuna order sizes, you'll catch the eye of the inspector. The desire to get these species runs high in all of us and it's painful to not get them freely - though I understand the mission of USDA, it is so sad to have your expensive order of seeds get razed.

Paraponera

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Shipped!
« Reply #78 on: December 30, 2021, 09:07:04 PM »
Sorry to hear that happened. It still seems really vague and up to interpretation for germinated seeds... I can't help but think that someone somewhere has a really nice confiscated fruit tree garden in the works. Hopefully I'm wrong.
"Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better."

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K-Rimes

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Shipped!
« Reply #79 on: December 31, 2021, 12:55:30 PM »
Sorry to hear that happened. It still seems really vague and up to interpretation for germinated seeds... I can't help but think that someone somewhere has a really nice confiscated fruit tree garden in the works. Hopefully I'm wrong.

That sweet, sweet USDA pension plan is probably more than enough for these guys to yeet them into the incinerator without even blinking an eye. Not worth keeping compared to a steady job, I'm sure!

Paraponera

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Shipped!
« Reply #80 on: December 31, 2021, 01:44:01 PM »
Sorry to hear that happened. It still seems really vague and up to interpretation for germinated seeds... I can't help but think that someone somewhere has a really nice confiscated fruit tree garden in the works. Hopefully I'm wrong.

That sweet, sweet USDA pension plan is probably more than enough for these guys to yeet them into the incinerator without even blinking an eye. Not worth keeping compared to a steady job, I'm sure!

Human stupidity and greed wins out more often than you might expect. You give people too much credit if you always expect them to do the right or logical thing.

"Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better."

Albert Einstein

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Shipped!
« Reply #81 on: January 12, 2022, 02:18:08 AM »
Wow! Things looking good. Contacted dhl and was told the package was to be held again by customs for another 1-2 weeks...Looks like it's the opposite...Package should be arriving any day now! Maybe 1-2 days until the forwarder gets it! Of course there is a chance things go wrong or tracking is messed up...

BellamyTrees

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Shipped!
« Reply #82 on: January 12, 2022, 01:28:48 PM »
Seeds are in, I already have them packaged in a USPS priority mail box. I am shipping them out tomorrow!

nattyfroootz

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Shipped!
« Reply #83 on: January 12, 2022, 03:28:51 PM »
My seeds are being held because of pests being found. I really got the worst inspector possible...lol

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Shipped!
« Reply #84 on: January 12, 2022, 05:42:29 PM »
I got everything ready for shipping. Will send out first thing next Monday based on tracking. If not, it will be earlier.
Nattyfrootz, good luck with your order. Wishing the best in clearing customs!

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Here!
« Reply #85 on: January 13, 2022, 11:10:20 PM »
So the seeds are arriving tomorrow...Does it sound better to ship tomorrow, or ship on Tuesday? Just realized that Monday is a holiday so post office will be closed. Either the seeds can spend the weekend at my place or at the post office...Colder temps are coming in the weekend, so even though the seeds will be fine at the shipping place, it might be better to wait just in case (only time they get damaged is when left out after delivery)? Also, we seem to be missing around 40 seeds based on what the seller sent in the invoice, I need to contact the seller to sort it out.For instance 2 people ordered the same species (10 each) but only receiving 10 total seeds. I wouldn't mind shipping all to 1 person and give the other a refund or split them both? When talking with someone else, they said split the seeds in the case we don't get a refund. But some seeds have germinated and will be hard to split...Wouldn't want to damage the sprouts. Thoughts? Anyways, it's a small amount of seeds so I hope we all are content and no hard feelings involved. I'll do my best to be fair. I know we all are anxious to get our seeds so I'll probably ship tomorrow as cold shouldn't and isn't a factor based on what I have heard from others.

This order wouldn't have been possible without the help of several people. I was able to get great advice and help from them. You know who you are, thanks a lot! I again apologize to the people who didn't get on the order...lesson learned. May consider doing another order in the near future, and I know it will go much smoother knowing my limits.

For those in the order, I hope we can have success growing these species and spread them around to other growers in the future!
Best,
Ryan
« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 11:12:07 PM by Jaboticaba45 »

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Here!
« Reply #86 on: January 14, 2022, 12:48:58 PM »



Seeds are here! Unfortunately, we are missing some stuff, and all the psidiums are listed as psidium sp. so I have no way to tell them apart. I'll contact seller and ask, although how is he to remember??? I'll try to id based off of number bought.
Also,
some other seeds are not named...Seller originally had each person's order in a separate bag, but customs just took them out and threw them into a huge pile...

K-Rimes

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Here!
« Reply #87 on: January 14, 2022, 02:15:29 PM »



Seeds are here! Unfortunately, we are missing some stuff, and all the psidiums are listed as psidium sp. so I have no way to tell them apart. I'll contact seller and ask, although how is he to remember??? I'll try to id based off of number bought.
Also,
some other seeds are not named...Seller originally had each person's order in a separate bag, but customs just took them out and threw them into a huge pile...

Andre mixed my seeds and then we went back and forth sorting them out. He mixes large and small seeds, or oval + spherical in the same pouch so it's usually pretty easy to tell apart. He'll help you out via whatsapp

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Here!
« Reply #88 on: January 14, 2022, 04:44:51 PM »



Seeds are here! Unfortunately, we are missing some stuff, and all the psidiums are listed as psidium sp. so I have no way to tell them apart. I'll contact seller and ask, although how is he to remember??? I'll try to id based off of number bought.
Also,
some other seeds are not named...Seller originally had each person's order in a separate bag, but customs just took them out and threw them into a huge pile...

Andre mixed my seeds and then we went back and forth sorting them out. He mixes large and small seeds, or oval + spherical in the same pouch so it's usually pretty easy to tell apart. He'll help you out via whatsapp
Iíve contacted seller about thisÖ he labeled most of the bags, but the problem is they are not descriptive. Some looked to be mislabeled like annona vepretorum. No one ordered it and the seeds donít look annonaey to me they look like a plinia. And labeling seeds plinia cauliflora sp. is confusing. But most look well labeled-well enough to tell what it is. Something like plinia sp jabuticaba de cruz was labeled as plinia cauliflora cruz. I hate growing things that are mislabeled, and I would feel bad selling them or propagating them. Luckily I have a positive ID on around 90 percent of the seeds. Would feel bad spreading around fake species to all. There are numbers on the bags, but donít seem to help at all. Numbers donít correspond to order numbers and seed quantity. I think it was maybe written by customs or something.

ManVFruit

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Here!
« Reply #89 on: January 14, 2022, 05:18:07 PM »



Seeds are here! Unfortunately, we are missing some stuff, and all the psidiums are listed as psidium sp. so I have no way to tell them apart. I'll contact seller and ask, although how is he to remember??? I'll try to id based off of number bought.
Also,
some other seeds are not named...Seller originally had each person's order in a separate bag, but customs just took them out and threw them into a huge pile...




Andre mixed my seeds and then we went back and forth sorting them out. He mixes large and small seeds, or oval + spherical in the same pouch so it's usually pretty easy to tell apart. He'll help you out via whatsapp
Iíve contacted seller about thisÖ he labeled most of the bags, but the problem is they are not descriptive. Some looked to be mislabeled like annona vepretorum. No one ordered it and the seeds donít look annonaey to me they look like a plinia. And labeling seeds plinia cauliflora sp. is confusing. But most look well labeled-well enough to tell what it is. Something like plinia sp jabuticaba de cruz was labeled as plinia cauliflora cruz. I hate growing things that are mislabeled, and I would feel bad selling them or propagating them. Luckily I have a positive ID on around 90 percent of the seeds. Would feel bad spreading around fake species to all. There are numbers on the bags, but donít seem to help at all. Numbers donít correspond to order numbers and seed quantity. I think it was maybe written by customs or something.



Man I have to say I feel your pain, doing this on large scale and group order is no easy task .
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 05:44:03 PM by ManVFruit »

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Here!
« Reply #90 on: January 14, 2022, 07:09:03 PM »
I've sorted out everything based on the best of my abilities. I'll ship on Tuesday. Hopefully seller will respond and give refund for the ~$300 loss. Sucks that most of that loss was on 1 person, not distributed among everyone.

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Here!
« Reply #91 on: January 15, 2022, 07:54:38 AM »
I've sorted out everything based on the best of my abilities. I'll ship on Tuesday. Hopefully seller will respond and give refund for the ~$300 loss. Sucks that most of that loss was on 1 person, not distributed among everyone.

It is the issue of quarantine certificates. Some species cannot issue quarantine certificates and can only be replaced by genus (annona SP)
However, Andre's packaging is really confusing. I can only identify it by experience, and sometimes the seeds are missed.

K-Rimes

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Here!
« Reply #92 on: January 15, 2022, 11:11:47 AM »
I've sorted out everything based on the best of my abilities. I'll ship on Tuesday. Hopefully seller will respond and give refund for the ~$300 loss. Sucks that most of that loss was on 1 person, not distributed among everyone.

Yes, I wondered how losses would be distributed. I hope you all will have luck with germination and refunds due to insect issues.

nattyfroootz

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Here!
« Reply #93 on: January 15, 2022, 11:27:54 AM »
I got my package and the insects were deemed to be of no concern. 

They destroyed 2 packages of Eugenias that I had that had germinated, although I had gotten packages of Mouriri that were SUPER germinated and they had no issue.  I'm pretty sure Eugenias require the next level plant importation certificate while, Mouriri, which is unlisted is permissable to be imported in with the seed permits.   Not entirely sure, but I'm gonna find out. 

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Here!
« Reply #94 on: January 15, 2022, 01:10:39 PM »
I got my package and the insects were deemed to be of no concern. 

They destroyed 2 packages of Eugenias that I had that had germinated, although I had gotten packages of Mouriri that were SUPER germinated and they had no issue.  I'm pretty sure Eugenias require the next level plant importation certificate while, Mouriri, which is unlisted is permissable to be imported in with the seed permits.   Not entirely sure, but I'm gonna find out.
Interesting...
all of our eugenias came, even though all were starting to germinate.
Edit: we only ordered 2 types of eugenias - e.sulcatta, and e.pyriformis
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 01:15:54 PM by Jaboticaba45 »

Paraponera

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Here!
« Reply #95 on: January 15, 2022, 02:02:31 PM »
I got my package and the insects were deemed to be of no concern. 

They destroyed 2 packages of Eugenias that I had that had germinated, although I had gotten packages of Mouriri that were SUPER germinated and they had no issue.  I'm pretty sure Eugenias require the next level plant importation certificate while, Mouriri, which is unlisted is permissable to be imported in with the seed permits.   Not entirely sure, but I'm gonna find out.
Interesting...
all of our eugenias came, even though all were starting to germinate.
Edit: we only ordered 2 types of eugenias - e.sulcatta, and e.pyriformis

Everything but the E. angustissima... The wound is still fresh. Lol

« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 02:06:48 PM by Paraponera »
"Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better."

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Jaboticaba45

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Here!
« Reply #96 on: January 15, 2022, 03:03:31 PM »
I got my package and the insects were deemed to be of no concern. 

They destroyed 2 packages of Eugenias that I had that had germinated, although I had gotten packages of Mouriri that were SUPER germinated and they had no issue.  I'm pretty sure Eugenias require the next level plant importation certificate while, Mouriri, which is unlisted is permissable to be imported in with the seed permits.   Not entirely sure, but I'm gonna find out.
Interesting...
all of our eugenias came, even though all were starting to germinate.
Edit: we only ordered 2 types of eugenias - e.sulcatta, and e.pyriformis

Everything but the E. angustissima... The wound is still fresh. Lol
Totally forgot about them - was just counting the seeds I could see. :P
Iíve contacted seller and he just need to respondÖ. Looks promising.

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Here!
« Reply #97 on: January 16, 2022, 12:01:51 AM »
Ok so the seller responded, and I am getting everything sorted out. Once I send him pictures and proof of what is missing, it looks like he'll either resend or refund. If he resends, I wouldn't mind ordering more seeds if he has some cool things available...but of course we'll have to see what happens. And stuff... Cool cool. Cheers! Also there is a chance he sent everything, but customs took the seeds. Can't tell for sure, but customs may have took the e.angustissima so they could expand their secret garden.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 12:03:31 AM by Jaboticaba45 »

Paraponera

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Here!
« Reply #98 on: January 16, 2022, 06:23:40 AM »
Awesome! I would be down to get a couple more species from Andre as well if he has anything else new. Customs would have made a note of it if they took them...even if to was for their secret garden. You joke about that, but I have seen 19 year servicemembers throw their retirement away for less. You can retire at 20 years of active service in the military.
"Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better."

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Jaboticaba45

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Re: Group seed order from Brazil-Order Here!
« Reply #99 on: January 16, 2022, 10:15:11 AM »
Awesome! I would be down to get a couple more species from Andre as well if he has anything else new. Customs would have made a note of it if they took them...even if to was for their secret garden. You joke about that, but I have seen 19 year servicemembers throw their retirement away for less. You can retire at 20 years of active service in the military.
Your're right, it is customs job to inspect the seeds and determine whether we get them or they go into the incinerator. Without them, our nation's agriculture would be in danger as foreign pests could potentially bring havoc.

 

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