Triploid artocarpus breeding

[cassowary]

According to  Wild fruits of Borneo by A. Lamb,
Artocarpus odoratissimus is a triploid.

"A cell is called triploid when it has three complete sets of chromosomes, rather than the typical pair of chromosomes. Triploid plants are sterile, because chromosomes need to occur in pairs to produce viable offspring. The plant will still flower, but these flowers cannot be fertilized, because the gametes, or pollen and ovules, have a chromosomal number -- three -- that won't match up with the chromosomal number -- two -- of fertile gametes. The plants can still bear fruit, but the fruit is sterile, such as a seedless watermelon."
Source: https://www.ehow.com/info_12013003_triploid-plants.html

How is it then that A. odoratissimus can bear fruit with fertile seeds? I have planted many so I know the germinate and grow into tree's.
Is it that the pollen is sterile? and fruit and seeds are produced by nucellar means or non-zygotic (clone)?
Maybe it will receive pollen from a pedali for example but won't have fertile pollen to give to to others?

Would love to know if someone have info on this cause want to cross some of the artocarpus species with each other.

[Francis_Eric]

Hi I am trying to find out the same but I didn't know of the triploid giving fertile seeds

IF you had a sterile triploid , and tried to double the chromosone would it be fertile?
Or if you had two sterile triploid would they maybe cross.

(I also asked something similar if you have a  2n=40 with 2n=80
the offspring 2n=60 sterile seed, but makes fruit
would that breed with 2n=120 (I think end up with 2n=90, but be fertile)


.

I know with natural crosses with a paint brush
to transfer pollen with corn with wild species they have to use a fertile species to keep the hybrid lineage going or else it is a genetic dead end

So my only guess would if that is the case it would need to be re breed to make new plants
(unless any deletions happened naturally in the chromosones (as in 61 to delete to 60 for instance )
maybe HAR would know

I actually also wanted to say I was also reading about a New species being found I saw a month or so ago
Under it there was this article , but I am not paying $20 for it
Artocarpus bergii (Moraceae), a New Species in the Breadfruit Clade from the Moluccas

Systematics and Species Limits of Breadfruit (Artocarpus, Moraceae)


https://www.ingentaconnect.com/contentone/aspt/sb/2005/00000030/00000003/art00011?utm_source=TrendMD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Systematic_Botany_TrendMD_0

readfruit (Artocarpus, Moraceae) is an important staple in Oceania and throughout much of the tropics. Interpretations of species delimitations among breadfruit and its closest relatives have varied from recognition of one to several species. To better understand the systematics and ultimately the origins of breadfruit, we considered evidence from molecular data. Amplified fragment length polymorphism data for 261 individuals of breadfruit, its closest relatives, putative hybrids, and nine outgroup taxa were analyzed using neighbor joining and parsimony analyses. Three species, A. altilis (domesticated breadfruit), A. camansi, and A. mariannensis, are recognized and the existence of hybrids (A. altilis × A. mariannensis) verified. A revised treatment based on the molecular results, as well as morphological and geographical considerations, is presented.

[Francis_Eric]

oops my mistake Says online fruit has fertile diploids , and sterile triploids
off topic , but looks like marang Artocarpus odoratissimus is being used as a dwarf rootstock for breadfruit.

Sorry about that kind of tired , and not to good with those latin names.

[cassowary]

Thanks for the reply,
I have the wild form of A. odoratissimus so maybe that one could be used instead as pollinator.
I saw that in one Australian reasearch paper they tried a. altilis on a. Odor but that was only a small plant, haven't seen how it did when at mature girth. Maybe it worked out?

[Fruit Jungle]

Hi I am trying to find out the same but I didn't know of the triploid giving fertile seeds

IF you had a sterile triploid , and tried to double the chromosone would it be fertile?
Or if you had two sterile triploid would they maybe cross.

(I also asked something similar if you have a  2n=40 with 2n=80
the offspring 2n=60 sterile seed, but makes fruit
would that breed with 2n=120 (I think end up with 2n=90, but be fertile)


.

I know with natural crosses with a paint brush
to transfer pollen with corn with wild species they have to use a fertile species to keep the hybrid lineage going or else it is a genetic dead end

So my only guess would if that is the case it would need to be re breed to make new plants
(unless any deletions happened naturally in the chromosones (as in 61 to delete to 60 for instance )
maybe HAR would know

I actually also wanted to say I was also reading about a New species being found I saw a month or so ago
Under it there was this article , but I am not paying $20 for it
Artocarpus bergii (Moraceae), a New Species in the Breadfruit Clade from the Moluccas

Systematics and Species Limits of Breadfruit (Artocarpus, Moraceae)


https://www.ingentaconnect.com/contentone/aspt/sb/2005/00000030/00000003/art00011?utm_source=TrendMD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Systematic_Botany_TrendMD_0

readfruit (Artocarpus, Moraceae) is an important staple in Oceania and throughout much of the tropics. Interpretations of species delimitations among breadfruit and its closest relatives have varied from recognition of one to several species. To better understand the systematics and ultimately the origins of breadfruit, we considered evidence from molecular data. Amplified fragment length polymorphism data for 261 individuals of breadfruit, its closest relatives, putative hybrids, and nine outgroup taxa were analyzed using neighbor joining and parsimony analyses. Three species, A. altilis (domesticated breadfruit), A. camansi, and A. mariannensis, are recognized and the existence of hybrids (A. altilis × A. mariannensis) verified. A revised treatment based on the molecular results, as well as morphological and geographical considerations, is presented.

Google sci-hub. It's a great way to access scientific articles for free. Just post link to article and it pops up.

[cassowary]

Great advice!
Will try that out. Trying to find some fruit books that are out of print also.

[Francis_Eric]

WOW thank you very much I have used Willies (or whatever(

I am in The north Love plants but I wonder if this is a good site you might like
I like readin , but I am not wasting time until I I plan to accomplish something

Let me know though looks interesting

WILL TRY SIOME OF THOSE links in your site (SCI - Hub )
mostly temparate

(truthfully cannot find a good (random ) Artocarpus link in my history today)

[Francis_Eric]

Okay Think this is the link
Any good links for research here
(what a pain I looked, and looked in history of today for a long while  in my tabs all along)

What are your Goals anyways if you do not mind me asking
Or are you just not wanting to breed with sterile pollen (I understand)

https://sites.northwestern.edu/zerega-lab/research/

[cassowary]

Just don't want to waste resources on trying to use the marang pollen when it's sterile. But I don't think it is cause there is differences in marang naturally and in cultivated tree's so don't think the pollen is sterile. Maybe it's just an issue of nomenclature for me, I am jsut starting in this field of education.

Anyway, When I have a mature breadnut I will try to pollinate it with my seedless breadfruit and see if the breadfruit starts putting out some seeds, I would prefer to propogate breadfruit that way rather then dig up root suckers. And then do the same with marang pollen and see.

[SimonStogs]

spammer

[Galatians522]

My importance melted away

 

[Mike T]

Triploids are usually infertile yes and usually seedless and I am not sure if sexual reproduction is possible for many species. The can have inclusion bodies. Commercial triploid bananas came from a a tetraploid x diploid hybrid and I am not sure if triploidy happens much in the wild. Some kwai muk are triploid and I wonder how often it occurs in cultivated marangs especially as they vary so much and the seeds usually look pretty normal. Breadfruit genetics are pretty interesting and seedlessness increases with distance from PNG.
If keledang and bondon could cross now that would be something as they are closest relatives. The genetic relatedness cladograms would be the best way to so what you could have a shot at.