Author Topic: Grafting Che to Mulberry  (Read 420 times)

K-Rimes

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Grafting Che to Mulberry
« on: January 14, 2022, 03:13:50 PM »
I saw a few successful Che to male mulberry bark grafts online but wanted to see if others have had success on TFF doing this. I tried che for the first time last year and it was very agreeable and aesthetic so I want to give it a try grafting to ever bearing / dwarf mulberry which seems to be a universal receiver of mulberry grafts.

Also wanted to try rooting some cuttings which I hear is challenging but not impossible.

Anyone have experience?

Kevin Jones

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2022, 04:53:31 PM »
No experience here... but I would be very interested in attempting to graft some.
Anyone have the large-seedles type cuttings for sale?

Kevin


achetadomestica

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2022, 05:08:49 PM »
No experience here... but I would be very interested in attempting to graft some.
Anyone have the large-seedles type cuttings for sale?

Kevin
I have a large grafted "Norris" che tree and plenty of scions available

K-Rimes

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2022, 05:16:23 PM »
No experience here... but I would be very interested in attempting to graft some.
Anyone have the large-seedles type cuttings for sale?

Kevin
I have a large grafted "Norris" che tree and plenty of scions available

Have you tried rooting them before?

hammer524

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2022, 05:25:04 PM »
Couple of weeks ago I grafted some Che Mulberry Scions from https://reallygoodplants.com/ onto osange orange rootstock that I received from Fruitwood Nursey. I had an extra couple scions that I decided to stick in the dirt and see if they root. I'll report back if one succeeds at rooting.

ScottR

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2022, 06:27:48 PM »
I have heard that Che which is not a mulberry but Cudrania that is in moraceae family is compatible with Osage orange. Mulberry same family would be interesting to see if it works. Best of luck to yeah Kevin.

Kevin Jones

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2022, 06:34:07 AM »
Do they root easily?

Kevin

nana7b

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2022, 07:16:31 AM »
I was able to root them fairly easily but the problem with that is they sucker and the suckers can be super thorny.  I made that mistake and have to remove the one I planted.
I have heard of them making thorny thickets that require a bulldozer to remove.

Tried grafting onto Mulberry but was not successful.

Grafting onto Osage Orange is the way to go.

K-Rimes

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2022, 11:05:15 AM »
I haven't been able to find osage orange anywhere at CA nurseries. If someone has a line on some, let me know. I see some bare rooted grafted norris for $30 so I may do that, we'll see.

Flgarden

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2022, 11:58:08 AM »
I grafted che only on osage orange. I need to try to root che cuttings, just for fun. I know osage scions root like crazy. I ordered 2 osage rootstocks. Cut off tops rooted so fast. Seems easier than growing them from seeds.

Bush2Beach

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2022, 01:19:44 PM »
I think my friend told me he collected Osage seed at Francheschi in the last month or so…..?
I haven't been able to find osage orange anywhere at CA nurseries. If someone has a line on some, let me know. I see some bare rooted grafted norris for $30 so I may do that, we'll see.

Flgarden

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2022, 01:25:07 PM »
On etsy, there were lots of osage seeds cheap. Somehow they grew so slow, and will no be ready for grafting any time soon. For the same time, rooted cutting of osage is a perfect rootstock now.

Ana

Kevin Jones

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2022, 02:26:23 PM »
Do you like the fruit?

Kevin

K-Rimes

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2022, 03:45:48 PM »
I think my friend told me he collected Osage seed at Francheschi in the last month or so…..?
I haven't been able to find osage orange anywhere at CA nurseries. If someone has a line on some, let me know. I see some bare rooted grafted norris for $30 so I may do that, we'll see.

Oh dang, I hear osage roots SUPER easy too so I would love to find that plant there. I can't seem to find the plant map from Franchesci, I saw it once though. I'll have to cruise around.

K-Rimes

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2022, 03:46:55 PM »
Do you like the fruit?

Kevin

I tried it at another SB collector's house and I found it agreeable. It's like mixing a mulberry and a watermelon and it has little sliver style seeds that aren't bad to crunch or spit out. It's not a 10/10 or anything but I think it's worth having. It's really cool looking, big mutant red fruits hanging off branches.

NateTheGreat

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2022, 09:33:56 PM »
I think my friend told me he collected Osage seed at Francheschi in the last month or so…..?
I haven't been able to find osage orange anywhere at CA nurseries. If someone has a line on some, let me know. I see some bare rooted grafted norris for $30 so I may do that, we'll see.

Oh dang, I hear osage roots SUPER easy too so I would love to find that plant there. I can't seem to find the plant map from Franchesci, I saw it once though. I'll have to cruise around.

This? Osage Orange is #211, a bit below the word "Road", middle right.

https://archive.org/details/SantaBarbarasStreetAndParkTrees1972/page/n17/mode/2up
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 09:36:06 PM by NateTheGreat »

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2022, 11:59:28 PM »
If anyone is interested in some cuttings of osage orange, I have access to a dormant tree.

Francis_Eric

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2022, 01:57:46 PM »
Logged in just to say I have (FREE) seeds Osage orange native to Florida TX etc. brought to IL.
no charge (may take a week to mail thiough)

I also know how to freeze dry fruit naturally , to get seeds easy (It happens in nature they freeze dry)
could make a 2 pound fruit 2 OZ but if you want a whole one for a decoration I will have to charge money.

you can also eat the seeds or osage orange also called Iron wood people use it to make bows,
and it can burn so hot that it could ruin a wood burning stove (i've heard)


Francis_Eric

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2022, 02:03:26 PM »
I saw a few successful Che to male mulberry bark grafts online but wanted to see if others have had success on TFF doing this. I tried che for the first time last year and it was very agreeable and aesthetic so I want to give it a try grafting to ever bearing / dwarf mulberry which seems to be a universal receiver of
Quote
mulberry grafts.

Also wanted to try rooting some cuttings which I hear is challenging but not impossible.

Anyone have experience?

This has been brought up a quote from Mangostien

Quote
The Maclura clade is quite isolated within Moraceae and it is certainly not closely related to mulberry (Morus spp.). So intergeneric grafting would likely fail.

In fact, che is more closely related to fig and breadnut than mulberry. Source: https://europepmc.org/article/PMC/PMC7995901

But if you want to experiment, sure, let us know the results. Maybe due to convergent evolution there is a chance it could work.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 01:37:07 PM by Mango Stein »


Francis_Eric

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2022, 02:28:18 PM »
Note I may not answer message for a week (off work this week) but always reply back

Here are some pictures of wood
on thread

The morton arboretum down the street has a Osage orange and che hybrid (from France)
I been looking for for over 10 years,

che taste like chewy watermelon would be good dried ,
but K rimes are you sure of sliver sized seed
 the seed I saw was bigger like a date seed in a street tree fruit in Ohio.
(I sampled a seedless one as well with no male tree around
 unless a osage polinated yours I wouldn;t know though if that would give small seed. )

https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=41269.msg412279#msg412279

Francis_Eric

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Re: Grafting Che to Mulberry
« Reply #20 on: Today at 12:52:35 AM »
I have heard that Che which is not a mulberry but Cudrania that is in moraceae family is compatible with Osage orange. Mulberry same family would be interesting to see if it works. Best of luck to yeah Kevin.

Scott R Here is more information on the Che Osage Orange Hybrid since brought up
(I happen to see saved in my Email so I  thought I'd post)

I got the Hedge apple (Osage orange) seed packet out (or will be shipping from Miami instead)
 these trees they are huge

(quote from Below link)

https://www.cirrusimage.com/tree_Osage_Silk_Thorn/

http://www.cirrusimage.com/trees!toc.htm





Quote
The only known hybrid of the Osage Orange tree, Maclura pomifera, x Macludrania hybrida André, is an intergeneric cross: x Macludrania = Cudrania x Maclura. Cudrania tricuspidata (Carr.) Bureau is a spiny shrub or small tree, native to China, Japan, and Korea. The Maclura parent is variety inermis. The hybrid is a small tree with yellowish furrowed bark and short, woody spines. [1]
Like the closely related Mulberry, the silkworm thorn fruit is not a true berry, but a collective. Much larger than mulberries, the Che fruit can be up to 2 inches in diameter. The ripe fruits are deep red, containing juicy flesh and small brown seeds. Nearly tasteless when young, they can develop into a delicious, sugary fruit. Sold locally in markets in China and elsewhere in east Asia, the fruit attracts little commercial interest elsewhere. The fruit can stain roofs, driveways or sidewalks, hence the tree should be placed in and isolated location in full sun. [2]


Quote
Shrubs or small trees, 1-7 m tall, deciduous. Bark grayish brown. Branchlets slightly ridged, glabrous; spines 0.5-2 cm. Winter buds reddish brown. Petiole 1-2 cm, sparsely pubescent; leaf blade ovate to rhombic-ovate, occasionally 3-lobed, 5-14 × 3-6 cm, abaxially greenish white and glabrous or sparsely pubescent, adaxially deep green and glabrous, base rounded to cuneate, margin entire, apex acuminate; secondary veins 4-6 on each side of midvein, tertiary veins reticulate. Inflorescences axillary, single or in pairs. Male inflorescences capitulate, ca. 5 mm in diam.; peduncle shorter than capitulum. Female inflorescences 1-1.5 cm in diam., axillary; peduncle short. Male flowers: calyx lobes fleshy, margin revolute, apex thick; pistillode pyramidal. Female flowers: calyx lobes with margin revolute, apically shield-shaped; ovary immersed in lower part of calyx. Fruiting syncarp orange red when mature, ± globose, ca. 2.5 cm in diam. Fl. May-Jun, fr. Jun-Jul.
Sunny forest margins, mountain slopes; 500-2200 m. Anhui, Fujian, SE Gansu, Guangdong, Guangxi, Guizhou, Hebei, Henan, Hubei, Hunan, Jiangsu, Jiangxi, Shaanxi, Shandong, S Shanxi, Sichuan, Yunnan, Zhejiang [Japan (cultivated), Korea].

The bark fibers are used for making paper, the leaves are used as food for silkworms, the fruit are edible, and the bark is used medicinally. [3]


QUOTE EATTHEWEEDS
QUOTE
Incidentally an intergeneric hybrid exist between
 Che (Cudrania tricuspidata) and Osage Orange (Maclura pomifera) called Macludrania hybrida.
Mostly from France they were planted in the
US National Arboretum in 1960







 

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