Author Topic: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals  (Read 1095 times)

ChirimoyaNirvana

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • Hawaii
    • View Profile
Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« on: February 19, 2022, 09:11:14 PM »
Hello,
I have a farm on the hamakua coast in the Ninole area.  I’m planning on setting up an orchard in a few months and I was wondering if anyone from the hamakua coast area could give me some advice on amending the native soil.  I have not done a soil test yet, however, I have read online that the soil for my area is called kaiwiki soil and it has a pH of 5.5 on average.  I have read that crops like durian prefer a pH of 6.  Have any of you had to amend the soil with lime in order to successfully grow durian and other tropicals?  Or have you had success planting the trees in native soil with no amendments?  My elevation is 900 ft above sea level.
Bonus question:  Do any of you know of a good person or company that installs high quality hog fencing?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2022, 09:13:13 PM by ChirimoyaNirvana »

fruitlovers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15883
  • www.fruitlovers.com
    • USA, Big Island, East Hawaii, Zone 13a
    • View Profile
    • Fruit Lover's Nursery
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2022, 12:21:08 AM »
Durians will grow well in pH 5.5. But you will want to add lime anyway because they like the calcium. I use dolomite, which has bot calcium and magnesium. If these two are not in balance then the calcium is not easily absorbed by the plants. It will be good for you to plant the durians on a slope if possible, as they easily get root rot. If you don't have slopes then put in a lot of black cinder into the holes to improve drainage.
For hog wire fencing, ask at Miranda's or Tractor Supply in Hilo for recommendations.
Oscar

ChirimoyaNirvana

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • Hawaii
    • View Profile
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2022, 03:42:31 PM »
Thank you so much for your advice!  At what rate do you apply the dolomite?  Should I apply it on my entire orchard or just where I plan on having durian? 

Gone tropo

  • Durian obsessed
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
    • Nth Qld Australia, zone 13a
    • View Profile
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2022, 06:08:18 PM »
My soil was last tested by lab has a ph of 4.7 my durians and all my other ultra tropicals are thriving, however I also use dolomite around the trees to get the ph up a bit so not sure what the actual Ph would be around the trees themselves.  Certainly your 5.5 will be just fine.

ChirimoyaNirvana

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • Hawaii
    • View Profile
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2022, 10:11:34 PM »
Gone Troppo, thank you that really gives me hope!  That seems easier than treating the entire farm. 

Finca La Isla

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1829
    • Costa Rica, Southern Caribbean coast
    • View Profile
    • finca la isla
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2022, 08:24:24 AM »
I have ph of 6.1-6.3. We apply calcium carbonate on durian and avocados at .5kg per sq. Meter
Penang has ph of 6.5
Peter

ChirimoyaNirvana

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • Hawaii
    • View Profile
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2022, 02:32:51 AM »
Peter, thank you for the information.  I was just in Costa Rica this January and sadly, I did not see any durians at the market in San Isidro or tinomastes.  Thank you for letting me know the rate of application that’s super helpful!  Have you noticed an improvement in the growth of the durian after you add the calcium carbonate?   

Finca La Isla

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1829
    • Costa Rica, Southern Caribbean coast
    • View Profile
    • finca la isla
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2022, 10:11:04 AM »
Hi
San Isidro and Tinamaste have soil that is more acidic than yours.  Their durian season falls sometime around July to September.  The Caribbean Costa Rica has two seasons. The same summer season as well as a secondary season around March/April.
If your trees look pretty much ok you won’t notice any difference.  It’s more preventive as durian has a reputation for being vulnerable to root fungi. 
Calcium can also help in the case of splitting fruits on other trees like Jakfruit and preventing problems with mangosteen fruits. If there is a calcium deficiency the skins can’t keep up with the pulp development.
Peter

spencerw

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 58
    • Hawaii
    • View Profile
    • Tropical Self Sufficiency
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2022, 02:34:38 PM »
hey neighbor! im in hakalau at 800'. im also growing durians. i plan to plant 4 acres of durian forest, but i havent quite started the new zone yet. right now ive only got 10 grafted trees in the ground, but im cultivating 3.5 acres currently of mixed diverse agroforestry species. our soils are extremely depleted, whats your surrounding vegetation? do you have shrubs and trees/lots of uluhe or are you in pasture? that will be more helpful in determining where you system is at. its almost not even worth doing a soil test at CTAHR because they will not give you enough information and their analysis will just be to add 1000s of pounds of everything. a pH test is somewhat helpful though. mine ranged from 5.9-5.4. youll need to add lots of calcium, azomite and chicken poop. i use bone meal and shrimp meal quite often as well. durians are needy and hungry. make sure to till your tree lines and dig large holes to loosen up the substrate. plant lots of ingas for biomass. mulch everything as often as you can. im planning on recording my progress on the forest once i start it up and uploading it to youtube. but it may not be until later in the year when i get that going.  im designing the system based on syntropic systems. let me know if you have questions! the island needs more high quality durians!

ChirimoyaNirvana

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • Hawaii
    • View Profile
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2022, 11:28:30 PM »
Hi Spencerw!  Nice to see that I’m not the only one starting from scratch!  To answer your question, the property is currently just pasture with probably an acre of invasive guavas of various varieties.  The property currently has cattle on it from the neighbor in order to keep the grass from growing 4ft high.  I have not built a house on the land yet because I’m waiting for the permit to be approved.  I was planning on having a shade house built soon in order to grow out seedlings and graft my own trees to save money on nursery stock.  The records of the property seem to indicate that the property used to be used for growing sugar cane.  I hope that as the years pass, the big island will have more and more high quality durians available for the public.  It would be more convenient to get the durians in Hawaii than having to go to south east Asia which I have done more times that I like to admit because I’m a total durian addict 😂. Of course, harvesting durians from my own trees will be a dream come true!  I currently live in Florida and grow over 30 amazing mango varieties but they just don’t compare to a good durian.  I use azomite here in Florida for my vegetables and it seems to help with the quality for sure.  Gypsum also helps a lot in Florida with mangos and I notice that the mangos have better skin and sweetness on years that I apply gypsum vs years I do not apply it.  I would love to see your farm progress on YouTube, please share your channel name once you start posting!  There are definitely not enough people making videos on growing fruit on the hamakua coast. 

Kona fruit farm

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
  • Aloha
    • Big Island; Hawaii. Kona 1700' Elev. Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2022, 08:59:36 AM »
Hello friend.   I am not in hamaukua but I’m still on big island in kona.  Ironically I just ordered about 30 varieties of mango from Florida and I’m gonna attempt to make that work here in kona.    So ID love to talk with you about what you were growing.    Additionally I have gone to great great lengths to plant over 30 durian trees on my land here.   So I’m in the trenches on this new durian growing like you all.  I also have been to Asia twice specifically on durian trips. Hahaha.  So I feel you.    Need to pick my own. 

Here’s my durian orchard now.



With 3 acres of prime real estate for growing tropicals... why not create my own garden of eden?? Work in progress

ChirimoyaNirvana

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • Hawaii
    • View Profile
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2022, 12:09:53 PM »
Hello Kona fruit farm, nice to hear you are going to be growing good mangos in Kona.  I was actually fairly disappointed with the quality of mangos at the Hilo farmers market and Kona farmers market last time I was there.  There are a lot of great varieties from south Florida that would probably do great on the Kona side.  I’m going to give mangos a try on the Hilo side too.  I already got great advice from others on this forum that are growing mangos on the Hamakua coast.  I currently have over 30 varieties on my Florida property where I live, however, I also have a couple dozen more on a rental property in south Florida.  The ones I’m growing now around my house are mostly the varieties that seem to tolerate wet soils and rampant rains the best.  A lot of the really cool new Zill varieties would probably not do too well on the Hamakua coast because of all the rain.  There is also the issue of some varieties barely even producing for me here because of our recent warm winters which failed to trigger good blooms.  This year, I got a lot of blooms on some zill nursery varieties but a lot of the crop was lost after the freak freezing temperatures we had recently.  You will definitively have an easier time growing mangos than I will in rainy Hamakua.  Yeah not many people I know in person understand why I would fly halfway across the earth for spiky smelly fruit!  Good luck on growing your durian!  What varieties did you order from Florida?  Also, which nursery is willing to ship to the big island? 

Finca La Isla

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1829
    • Costa Rica, Southern Caribbean coast
    • View Profile
    • finca la isla
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2022, 03:57:38 PM »
Maybe not what you were thinking but there are some very interesting mango species from Borneo that should do well on the Hilo side. Stuff like Casturi, kuini, Wani mango.  There’s more of these interesting non m. indica species.
We’re cheering along several of these while waiting on our younger durians to start flowering.
Peter

ChirimoyaNirvana

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • Hawaii
    • View Profile
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2022, 05:20:17 PM »
Hi Peter! I actually recently planted a grafted Mangifera casturi so that I can have budwood ready for when I start growing them in Hawaii. So far it has shown to be fairly vigorous in my south Florida conditions.  I have heard that it is fairly compatible with indica as rootstock.  I wonder if grafting indica onto casturi would help with production since part of the problem in rainy locations is that the soils are much too soggy. As far as the other Mangifera species…I’m still waiting on a nursery to graft wani and kuini for me. 

Kona fruit farm

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
  • Aloha
    • Big Island; Hawaii. Kona 1700' Elev. Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2022, 01:44:18 AM »




With 3 acres of prime real estate for growing tropicals... why not create my own garden of eden?? Work in progress

Finca La Isla

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1829
    • Costa Rica, Southern Caribbean coast
    • View Profile
    • finca la isla
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2022, 08:32:30 AM »
Hi,
My take on the problems for indica in the wet climate is that the flowers and recently set fruit are vulnerable to anthracnosis when the conditions are wet. The ripening fruits also get nasty spots on the skin in the rain. The Borneo mangoes seem unaffected.
Hope to visit the Big Island one of these days.
On another note, we are getting flowering on durians right now. I will post in the future but it looks like an early season from around July that ought to extend. We’ll see.
Peter

ChirimoyaNirvana

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • Hawaii
    • View Profile
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2022, 03:26:41 PM »
     Kona Fruit Farm, you have a great list!  I notice that you have a few “Julie” type flavored mangos.  Have you heard of “Dwarf Hawaiian”?  It is actually a variety from Puerto Rico and in my opinion it has a flavor very very close to “Julie”.  The mango itself has a small amount of “strings” but not enough to be unpleasant.  The reason I bring up “Dwarf Hawaiian” is because it is incredibly productive here in south Florida and it often produces super early in the season and even continues to produce until mid and sometimes early late season.  “Coconut Cream” and “M4” have been shy bearers for me because of our mild winters.  “Pickering” is an amazing variety, good choice with that one!   

     Peter, yes you are are correct.  Anthracnose really limits production of mangos in rainy locations.  So far, I am trying to grow a lot of south East Asian mangos to take to Hawaii.  Out of all the Mangos I grow “COC” and “Rosa” need the least amount of copper and sulphur spraying.  Here in Florida we have a lot of issues with powdery mildew destroying flower panicles during our dry winters; that should not really be a problem in east Hawaii or in Costa Rica I would imagine.  I’m very jealous of your durian flowers.  I would love to see photos of them.  I would love to plant durian on the land in Hawaii but I have learned the hard way that wild boars will destroy them.  I’m currently in the process of fencing the entire property with hog wire.  For now, I’ll just keep enjoying my sub tropicals here in Florida until I am able to make the move to Hawaii.   

fruitlovers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15883
  • www.fruitlovers.com
    • USA, Big Island, East Hawaii, Zone 13a
    • View Profile
    • Fruit Lover's Nursery
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2022, 04:03:28 AM »
Thank you so much for your advice!  At what rate do you apply the dolomite?  Should I apply it on my entire orchard or just where I plan on having durian?
Most trees appreciate the dolomite. Use it inside the planting holes. Reapply after heavy rains around the base of the tree. In Hawaii it's good to apply around base of tree at least every 6 months. More often in heavy rainfall areas.
Oscar

ChirimoyaNirvana

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • Hawaii
    • View Profile
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2022, 01:45:59 PM »
Oscar, thank you so much for your advice.  Is there a place you recommend for purchasing dolomite on the big island?  It sounds like I will have to buy a lot of Dolomite.

fruitlovers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15883
  • www.fruitlovers.com
    • USA, Big Island, East Hawaii, Zone 13a
    • View Profile
    • Fruit Lover's Nursery
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2022, 04:58:55 AM »
BEI or Nutri Ag
Oscar

ChirimoyaNirvana

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • Hawaii
    • View Profile
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2022, 03:42:39 PM »
Oscar, thank you!

spencerw

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 58
    • Hawaii
    • View Profile
    • Tropical Self Sufficiency
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2022, 11:04:14 PM »
i buy quite a few things from the farm coop as well. nutrien ag is the company that brings most of the stuff in and then the other businesses sell at a higher price. the cows are definently putting a lot of weight into the soil so make sure you till when you start planting. i love my tall grasses. ive got 4 acres of guinea grass! im excited to get into it and plant my durians! lots of biomass production and soil working going on

Finca La Isla

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1829
    • Costa Rica, Southern Caribbean coast
    • View Profile
    • finca la isla
Re: Hamakua soil amending for durian and other tropicals
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2022, 07:19:30 AM »
That grass can be hard to get rid of. The roots will compete with your fruit tree roots.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk