Author Topic: Overhyped avocados  (Read 4898 times)

JCorte

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #75 on: June 01, 2022, 09:59:39 AM »
Mason, most of the Don Gillogly seeds we planted sent up multiple shoots.  The seedlings have been so resilient, there were a few that got chomped by rabbits down to the ground that I thought didn't make it so turned off the water to them.  They sent up new shoots, I don't think we lost a single seedling.  We have really strong winds on the property we planted them, and they made it through the sun, hail, critters, and winds with no problems.  Not sure if it's the variety or just avocado seedlings in general.  We bought several 1 gallon grafted plants from Atkins nursery and only a couple are doing well.

Janet

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #76 on: June 01, 2022, 10:18:30 AM »
Brad, I love the pictures with all the avocado diversity.  Wish we could of made it to your avo tasting last year.  We went to the Avocado Festival in Fallbrook at the end of April hoping to try some new varieties.  Pretty disappointing, no one was selling avocados.  Atkins nursery was there selling citrus and cherimoya and they had one 5 gallon Nabal tree but wanted $85 so we passed.  We walked the whole thing looking for something avocado related, there was one vendor selling cutting boards made from avocado wood, that was pretty much it.  Huge crowds of people, it ended up being a large street fair with vendors selling lots of "stuff" and fried foods, not our thing. 

Seems like you could fill such a niche market with all the different varieties that can't be found anywhere.  I know I would buy a box of all the diversity just to be able to taste the difference.

I wonder sometimes if those of us on this forum that spend years waiting to try fruit and look for different and diverse flavors are really rare.  Will there be a market for all the specialty fruits I want to experiment with.

Janet

i got bad news for you.  ive been busy chopping down all the diversity. 
Brad Spaugh

JCorte

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #77 on: June 01, 2022, 10:25:15 AM »
Probably for the best with all the water it takes to grow these trees.  At least you'll still have all the winners, and I'm sure your experience is actually just saving me a lot of time and energy.  I definitely want to try the Nabal.  I remember you showing us the tree.

Janet

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #78 on: June 01, 2022, 10:40:50 AM »
I still kept a bunch them but many of them ended up here.  RIP  :'(


Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #79 on: June 01, 2022, 01:34:30 PM »
Brad..can you prevent alternate bearing if you cull them on a year with big fruit set?
Pretty much all avocado trees alternate if they do a big fruit set.

I can tell the difference between a nabal tree and reed tree if the tree is in good health its obvious.  The fruit are very similar looking but nabal is very slightly more squat in shape and has a bigger nipple on top where the stem connects.  The spotting on the nabal is mkre spaced out and the skin color is more dull while still on the tree.




spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #80 on: June 01, 2022, 03:17:11 PM »
I think that will work but you would have to experiment for several years to figure out how much to remove.  I already do some thinning on some trees.  For instance sir prize I always thin but it still alternates and has a big load even after multiple thinnings.  You would need to be really on top of that from the beginning of summer and thin it really well.  If you still leave a lot of fruit the tree can put more energy into those and make them larger and more oil but not necessarily grow more new leaves to prevent alternating the following season.  So I guess yes if you take a lot it may work but maybe not guaranteeded.  Depends on so many factors also like health and vigor of the tree and all that...

Easier to just grow more than one tree if you have space.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 03:22:35 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

MasonG31

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #81 on: June 01, 2022, 03:43:15 PM »
Mason, most of the Don Gillogly seeds we planted sent up multiple shoots.  The seedlings have been so resilient, there were a few that got chomped by rabbits down to the ground that I thought didn't make it so turned off the water to them.  They sent up new shoots, I don't think we lost a single seedling.  We have really strong winds on the property we planted them, and they made it through the sun, hail, critters, and winds with no problems.  Not sure if it's the variety or just avocado seedlings in general.  We bought several 1 gallon grafted plants from Atkins nursery and only a couple are doing well.

Janet

Do you know if any of the shoots are a true genetic clone of the mother tree?  Like does anyone know if avocado seeds can be polyembryonic?  After looking at some Don Gillogly fruit, I'm gonna assume that it has mostly Mexican genetics, which in my experience produce some of the toughest seedlings.  Interesting to know that even after you turned the water off, they still sent up new shoots.  That's pretty cool. 

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #82 on: June 01, 2022, 04:22:13 PM »
I think they are just suckers not multiple different trees.  All avocado seeds do this.  If you pinch off a stem they always send up new suckers. Or some seeds just send out multiple suckers.

When you look at a mango seed that has multiple embryos, they are visible and the seed can be broken into several seperate parts.  I dont think avocados are the same. 
Brad Spaugh

Itay Gazit

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #83 on: June 01, 2022, 07:24:19 PM »
Brad, I love the pictures with all the avocado diversity.  Wish we could of made it to your avo tasting last year.  We went to the Avocado Festival in Fallbrook at the end of April hoping to try some new varieties.  Pretty disappointing, no one was selling avocados.  Atkins nursery was there selling citrus and cherimoya and they had one 5 gallon Nabal tree but wanted $85 so we passed.  We walked the whole thing looking for something avocado related, there was one vendor selling cutting boards made from avocado wood, that was pretty much it.  Huge crowds of people, it ended up being a large street fair with vendors selling lots of "stuff" and fried foods, not our thing. 

Seems like you could fill such a niche market with all the different varieties that can't be found anywhere.  I know I would buy a box of all the diversity just to be able to taste the difference.

I wonder sometimes if those of us on this forum that spend years waiting to try fruit and look for different and diverse flavors are really rare.  Will there be a market for all the specialty fruits I want to experiment with.

Janet

Hi Janet,

I believe there is a market. I recently bought 5 acres in Bonsall with a goal to grow and sell specialty fruits. It will probably take me several years to grow these different fruits, I'm passionate about it.

Itay

JCorte

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #84 on: June 02, 2022, 09:47:25 AM »
Itay, congratulations on your property!  I'm happy for you and wish you the best of luck. 

Brad advised me a while ago to plant as many seedlings as I could and let them grow in the ground and then graft after a season of growth.  I wanted a little head start and bought several grafted trees anyway even though I knew he was right.  For a majority of the grafted trees I planted, it was a waste of money and it's evident the seedlings will outgrow them in a couple years. 

Especially because Brad has been making the genetics available, it definitely makes the best sense for growing healthy trees and as a bonus it's the most economical.

The other challenging thing when buying trees is not getting the cultivar you are paying for.  I went to the CRFG plant sale about a month ago because Julie Fink had many trees for sale.  I noticed that on the plant list they would label a tree Sharwil for instance, and then there would be a different tree as Sharwil grafted.  There were only a handful of trees listed as grafted.  I realized that most of the trees must be seedlings, yet people that were buying them thought they were getting named cultivars.  That's probably how a lot of mislabeled trees get passed around. 

Janet

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #85 on: June 02, 2022, 07:32:27 PM »
Thank you Janet

Yes, growing seedlings is important; not only for Avocados but for most of the stuff we want to grow: Mangoes, Cherimoyas, etc...

Itay

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #86 on: June 02, 2022, 08:21:27 PM »
Itay stop by if you want once you move down here.  You going to live at the place in Bonsal?  We have another member here thats a super nice guy that lives in Bonsal.  I checked out his orchard and its super nice.  Lots of chickens and all kinds of fruit trees. 
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #87 on: June 06, 2022, 03:38:39 AM »
Thx Brad! I plan to build a house and then move there in a few years.

Reedo

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #88 on: June 07, 2022, 03:23:23 PM »
Lets talk about bacon avocado.  I have a huge bacon tree that makes hundreds of fruit.  The tree is beatiful and performs awesome.  The problem is it grows so large and makes so many fruit I cant use even a fraction of them.  And people dont really want to buy it.  So what to do with it?  Its not that I dont like bacon, its just not very practical.  So you can see the problems with some of these isnt always it grows poorly or doesnt produce, its just how many bacon or zutanos can you sell?  Zutano is the same way.  Super vigorous, makes hundreds of fruit, but no one wants them.  If they stayed somewhat small then I wouldnt mind keeping one around but these things turn in monsters.

I have one large Bacon that has been producing several hundred fruit a year. It's a marathon of guacamole eating. I use the seeds as rootstock, and have had very good (anecdotal) results in my area. The amount of abuse and neglect they can take is surprising.

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #89 on: August 03, 2022, 08:34:26 PM »
I just wanted to throw it out here that although lamb is a great growing tree and makes loads of fruit, the fruit just are not that great.  Very annoying to have to top work so many trees.  Especially ones that are patented and hyped up. 
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #90 on: August 06, 2022, 03:37:49 AM »
This thread is a nice break from the norm. GEM has been so heavily hyped and after trying the fruit many times, I've never seen the reason based on flavor and texture. As for Nabal, I've never had one that was better than a prime Reed.

In terms of Malama, I've had subpar growth from my 2 year old tree from Epicenter. It was bent at a 90 degree angle when I bought it, which I suspect was due to the scion they used. I straightened it over time through staking and it is finally starting to fill out over the past few months. I've also grafted a scion onto a Sharwil on Dusa to see if it grows better on a clonal rootstock.

johnb51

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #91 on: August 06, 2022, 09:46:46 AM »
This thread is a nice break from the norm. GEM has been so heavily hyped and after trying the fruit many times, I've never seen the reason based on flavor and texture.
So you're saying that GEM fruit is definitely inferior to original Hass?  For all the effort they've put into creating an improved Hass, they just haven't been successful?!  But isn't GEM supposed to replace Hass commercially?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2022, 12:10:59 PM by johnb51 »
John

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #92 on: August 06, 2022, 01:14:38 PM »
i think you are right, reed is slightly better than nabal. 

GEM, lamb, sir prize are all inferrior to regular hass and gwen.  Just my honest opinion.

GEM is a nice tree and makes loads of fruit.  BUT once the fruit sits on your counter and gets soft they look terrible and then you eat it and oil level is just not there and the flesh color is slighty off.  Soes not have the same nice green color of hass.

im going to do a video where I show these trees and I chop them all down. 
Brad Spaugh

johnb51

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #93 on: August 06, 2022, 02:43:51 PM »
im going to do a video where I show these trees and I chop them all down.
  Woo-hoo, sounds like fun!
John

agroventuresperu

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #94 on: August 07, 2022, 12:13:39 PM »
Just had to rant about this...  Sorry in advance  :D  I noticed theres so many overhyped avocado types.  I tried growing as many as possible and found most to be uninspiring.  Either the flavor is not there, or the tree has bad growth habits, or some other problem.  Many of these are hyped up by the UC breeding program or by the grounds keepers at the UC Irvine grove.  And some have just been around forever and for some reason people keep propogating them even though theres much better options  ???

My chainsaw has been getting a real workout lately.  Heres a short list of ones that have had a date with the chipper.


Ardith
Mexicola
Mexicola Grande
Stewart
Holiday
Daily11
Jim Bacon
Sir Prize
Jan Boyce
Fuerte
Bacon
Zutano
GEM
Party time
Coleen Davis


And theres more that will likely be chopped down and turned into saw dust after I waste a few more seasons on them as well !  ;D  :P

Fuerte is a classic. I thought people generally liked that variety. Why don't you like it? Here in my part of Peru it is the only other grafted option besides Hass that the local nurseries provide.

agroventuresperu

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #95 on: August 07, 2022, 12:27:30 PM »
Taste wise I can't imagine how Hass could be beat.  When I got a box from you, Brad, they were all equally excellent I couldn't really distinguish.  I don't grow these so I don't know about their productivity, pest resistance, etc.

I feel same way about the mandarins available... they are basically perfect.  If they were any sweeter they would be gross.

Hass is the best all around tree for this area.  Highly productive.  High oil content, strong growth, good size fruit, hard shell, peels easily, hangs a long time.  Definitely a reason its grown here despite some of the negativity you may hear online.  Those people have likely not had a fully ripened hass from CA.  I ate 2 of them today and they were very ripe and tasted amazing!  Definitely a winner.  If all you are getting is junk hass from mexico, thats another story!!! :D

That said, sharwil, green gold, reed, nabal, all have as good or better flavor.  But hass is awesome no doubt.

The only thing I don't like about hass is the skin. It can be brittle and gritty. Sometimes when you cut an avocado you can introduce the shell grit into the flesh. I can't remember if that was ever a problem from backyard tree-ripened fruits or just a problem with poorly produced store-bought.

agroventuresperu

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #96 on: August 07, 2022, 01:01:13 PM »
Last year we planted out over 60 seeds from our Don Gillogly tree in Fallbrook to use as rootstock and they are doing great.  Surprisingly, on most of the trees the older leaves from last year still look great without any tip burn and the seedlings are branching out nicely and have a good shape.  Our mother tree at home is over 15 years old and produces reliably even with our clay soil and cooler weather.  It also thrives with minimum watering, I don't water it at all from late fall to early spring and only once every couple weeks during summer.  I'm sure it would need more water in a warmer climate, but our highs are still only in the upper 60s, forecast shows high of 73 this next week. 

In March, we purchased an old avocado orchard with about 2000 Hass and Reed trees.  The water on the property has been turned off for about a year, but we have been harvesting some Hass.  Some were better than any avocado we have ever purchased.  I was surprised at how good some of them were even on neglected trees.  We also tried a couple Reed even though we knew they weren't ready yet and fruit was still okay, so looking forward to trying them in a few months.

Now that we have these mature trees, we plan on letting all the Don Gillogly seeds grow into trees to see what we get.  Looking forward to experimenting with seedlings and grafting new varieties onto some of these old trees.

Janet

The water was off for a year?! Say what?! Are you intentionally dry farming avocados in southern California? Good luck with that. I'm amazed you even had some fruit.

agroventuresperu

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #97 on: August 07, 2022, 01:36:03 PM »
Brad, I love the pictures with all the avocado diversity.  Wish we could of made it to your avo tasting last year.  We went to the Avocado Festival in Fallbrook at the end of April hoping to try some new varieties.  Pretty disappointing, no one was selling avocados.  Atkins nursery was there selling citrus and cherimoya and they had one 5 gallon Nabal tree but wanted $85 so we passed.  We walked the whole thing looking for something avocado related, there was one vendor selling cutting boards made from avocado wood, that was pretty much it.  Huge crowds of people, it ended up being a large street fair with vendors selling lots of "stuff" and fried foods, not our thing. 

Seems like you could fill such a niche market with all the different varieties that can't be found anywhere.  I know I would buy a box of all the diversity just to be able to taste the difference.

I wonder sometimes if those of us on this forum that spend years waiting to try fruit and look for different and diverse flavors are really rare.  Will there be a market for all the specialty fruits I want to experiment with.

Janet

When you go to an avocado festival but there aren't any avocados... Maybe it really is the end of the world.

agroventuresperu

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #98 on: August 07, 2022, 01:38:10 PM »
I still kept a bunch them but many of them ended up here.  RIP  :'(



Great mulch for the winners!

agroventuresperu

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #99 on: August 07, 2022, 01:46:00 PM »
i think you are right, reed is slightly better than nabal. 

GEM, lamb, sir prize are all inferrior to regular hass and gwen.  Just my honest opinion.

GEM is a nice tree and makes loads of fruit.  BUT once the fruit sits on your counter and gets soft they look terrible and then you eat it and oil level is just not there and the flesh color is slighty off.  Soes not have the same nice green color of hass.

im going to do a video where I show these trees and I chop them all down.

I definitely need you to come do a tasting in ten years or so when all my seedlings are producing. You're like a restaurant critic, but instead of restaurants it's just avocados that you criticize.

 

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