Author Topic: Overhyped avocados  (Read 4897 times)

johnb51

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #100 on: August 07, 2022, 01:53:12 PM »
i think you are right, reed is slightly better than nabal. 

GEM, lamb, sir prize are all inferrior to regular hass and gwen.  Just my honest opinion.

GEM is a nice tree and makes loads of fruit.  BUT once the fruit sits on your counter and gets soft they look terrible and then you eat it and oil level is just not there and the flesh color is slighty off.  Soes not have the same nice green color of hass.

im going to do a video where I show these trees and I chop them all down.

I definitely need you to come do a tasting in ten years or so when all my seedlings are producing. You're like a restaurant critic, but instead of restaurants it's just avocados that you criticize.
RT ticket to Peru included?
John

agroventuresperu

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #101 on: August 07, 2022, 02:08:24 PM »
i think you are right, reed is slightly better than nabal. 

GEM, lamb, sir prize are all inferrior to regular hass and gwen.  Just my honest opinion.

GEM is a nice tree and makes loads of fruit.  BUT once the fruit sits on your counter and gets soft they look terrible and then you eat it and oil level is just not there and the flesh color is slighty off.  Soes not have the same nice green color of hass.

im going to do a video where I show these trees and I chop them all down.

I definitely need you to come do a tasting in ten years or so when all my seedlings are producing. You're like a restaurant critic, but instead of restaurants it's just avocados that you criticize.
RT ticket to Peru included?

If I win the lottery.

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #102 on: August 07, 2022, 09:29:29 PM »
Just had to rant about this...  Sorry in advance  :D  I noticed theres so many overhyped avocado types.  I tried growing as many as possible and found most to be uninspiring.  Either the flavor is not there, or the tree has bad growth habits, or some other problem.  Many of these are hyped up by the UC breeding program or by the grounds keepers at the UC Irvine grove.  And some have just been around forever and for some reason people keep propogating them even though theres much better options  ???

My chainsaw has been getting a real workout lately.  Heres a short list of ones that have had a date with the chipper.


Ardith
Mexicola
Mexicola Grande
Stewart
Holiday
Daily11
Jim Bacon
Sir Prize
Jan Boyce
Fuerte
Bacon
Zutano
GEM
Party time
Coleen Davis


And theres more that will likely be chopped down and turned into saw dust after I waste a few more seasons on them as well !  ;D  :P

Fuerte is a classic. I thought people generally liked that variety. Why don't you like it? Here in my part of Peru it is the only other grafted option besides Hass that the local nurseries provide.

fuerte tastes pretty good but the skin is thin and the tree is massive.  And it has sporatic fruit set here.  it can set tons of fruit one year then go many years little to no fruit.  I think hass is better in every regard.  just my opinion.  Theres a reason they are no longer grown commercially here. 

sometimes its the tree and fruiting habit etc, sometimes its the fruit thats the problem.  Fuertes problems have more to do with the tree than the fruit. 
« Last Edit: August 07, 2022, 09:33:43 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #103 on: August 25, 2022, 04:54:55 PM »
Green gold is fantastic.

It's like Hass but better for me and later season. This is the first year I leave them on so long and they are still good through end of August.

The fruit are larger than Hass,  the seed is bigger too but the seed:flesh ratio is favorable. It has a heavy fruit set every year. My Hass will alternate bear if it sets too heavily one year while the green gold is reliably a heavy producer.

Diospyros

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #104 on: September 05, 2022, 04:37:43 PM »
Just had to rant about this...  Sorry in advance  :D  I noticed theres so many overhyped avocado types.  I tried growing as many as possible and found most to be uninspiring.  Either the flavor is not there, or the tree has bad growth habits, or some other problem.  Many of these are hyped up by the UC breeding program or by the grounds keepers at the UC Irvine grove.  And some have just been around forever and for some reason people keep propogating them even though theres much better options  ???

My chainsaw has been getting a real workout lately.  Heres a short list of ones that have had a date with the chipper.


Ardith
Mexicola
Mexicola Grande
Stewart
Holiday
Daily11
Jim Bacon
Sir Prize
Jan Boyce
Fuerte
Bacon
Zutano
GEM
Party time
Coleen Davis


And theres more that will likely be chopped down and turned into saw dust after I waste a few more seasons on them as well !  ;D  :P

Fuerte is a classic. I thought people generally liked that variety. Why don't you like it? Here in my part of Peru it is the only other grafted option besides Hass that the local nurseries provide.

fuerte tastes pretty good but the skin is thin and the tree is massive.  And it has sporatic fruit set here.  it can set tons of fruit one year then go many years little to no fruit.  I think hass is better in every regard.  just my opinion.  Theres a reason they are no longer grown commercially here. 

sometimes its the tree and fruiting habit etc, sometimes its the fruit thats the problem.  Fuertes problems have more to do with the tree than the fruit.

I heard some Fuerte trees hardly produce. May be some clone that was propagated around. Some people even tried grafting A type varieties onto it to help with the pollination but nothing works...
Fuerte is nice though...

Anyone ever tried Maluma?

Avoman

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #105 on: September 06, 2022, 05:42:02 PM »
Wow that's quite the shit list, I'm growing some of the ones that made it on the shit list, I hope in my area I don't come up with the same results, but I'm much further north and inland and my soil is way different, who knows perhaps it will make a difference only time will tell, I will make sure I plant some on your good list.Does this mean discounted scion prices if I show up with your chainsaw in hand ?

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #106 on: September 06, 2022, 07:26:49 PM »
lamb also on the shit list.  it has fibers and they turn dark if the fruit is picked late or left on the counter too long(which isnt that long).  Super annoyed with this tree.  Annoying because it grows and produces well but the fruit is kind of trash.  Its not as bad if picked earlier but then theres other better options.  The only thing it really has going for it is it can be passed off as hass and the packing house can make a quick buck.  You wont be getting repeat customers with this one if they are buying direct. 

Its definitely got to go...


« Last Edit: September 06, 2022, 07:30:47 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #107 on: September 06, 2022, 07:29:42 PM »
Reed on the other hand still looking pristine and can sit on the counter forever, ha g on the tree forever...  no black mess inside. 


Brad Spaugh

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #108 on: September 06, 2022, 07:32:57 PM »
Green gold is fantastic.

It's like Hass but better for me and later season. This is the first year I leave them on so long and they are still good through end of August.

The fruit are larger than Hass,  the seed is bigger too but the seed:flesh ratio is favorable. It has a heavy fruit set every year. My Hass will alternate bear if it sets too heavily one year while the green gold is reliably a heavy producer.

Post some pics of that tree and fruit.  I swear it doesnt sound like the same strain I got.  Is yours from Atkins?  My tree gets droopy from the fruit and then gets sunburn.  The fruit are also so high in Oil by May that thry start to get dry and cheesy almost.  It is really good but I dont think they will hang into August here.  The fruit on mine have a unique look and leave a little bit of fuzzy layer on the seed. 
Brad Spaugh

Bush2Beach

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #109 on: September 07, 2022, 10:39:59 AM »
I have been to a bunch of fruit specific festivals and those fruits were not in attendance.
Mango festival in Kona had no mangoís to buy or eat just crafts and BS, same at the Fairchild mango fest I went to , no mangoís to eat.
I been to an Avocado festival that had no Avocado dishes, vendors or Avocadoís in sight, but lots of craft booths.
I have a fair amount of gripes regarding nonsensical things in life but this one really hits a nerve.





Brad, I love the pictures with all the avocado diversity.  Wish we could of made it to your avo tasting last year.  We went to the Avocado Festival in Fallbrook at the end of April hoping to try some new varieties.  Pretty disappointing, no one was selling avocados.  Atkins nursery was there selling citrus and cherimoya and they had one 5 gallon Nabal tree but wanted $85 so we passed.  We walked the whole thing looking for something avocado related, there was one vendor selling cutting boards made from avocado wood, that was pretty much it.  Huge crowds of people, it ended up being a large street fair with vendors selling lots of "stuff" and fried foods, not our thing. 

Seems like you could fill such a niche market with all the different varieties that can't be found anywhere.  I know I would buy a box of all the diversity just to be able to taste the difference.

I wonder sometimes if those of us on this forum that spend years waiting to try fruit and look for different and diverse flavors are really rare.  Will there be a market for all the specialty fruits I want to experiment with.

Janet

When you go to an avocado festival but there aren't any avocados... Maybe it really is the end of the world.

K-Rimes

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #110 on: September 07, 2022, 01:45:45 PM »
Brad do you have any complaints with certain cultivars being more likely to get burnt leaves with high heat? I know this last week was exceptionally hot, but damn, my avos got beat up. Sir Prize shrivelled up completely. Hass and Lamb did ok.

yimnvs

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #111 on: September 07, 2022, 02:58:13 PM »
Brad do you have any complaints with certain cultivars being more likely to get burnt leaves with high heat? I know this last week was exceptionally hot, but damn, my avos got beat up. Sir Prize shrivelled up completely. Hass and Lamb did ok.

My more matured avocado trees(3 years +) didnt get any damage at all, not even the new growth. However, my younger trees planted this year and potted ones got burnt. So age and being in ground matters too.

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #112 on: September 07, 2022, 03:20:41 PM »
Some types are more heat intolerant than others.  Sir prize mostly gets burnt wood from drooping under the weight of the fruit is what I have seen.  But yeah that one always looks like crap. 

Jan boyce also gets nailed by heat.

Water water water....   My stuff seems like its doing ok.  I am watering everyday or every other day now and its over 100 everyday.  This heat sucks. 
Brad Spaugh

johnb51

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #113 on: September 07, 2022, 06:04:47 PM »
Even in Florida some varieties are more sun and heat tolerant than others.  My Monroe has thrived this summer, whereas the Day hasn't grown an inch and many of its leaves look bleached (a little yellow).
John

MasonG31

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #114 on: September 07, 2022, 06:28:07 PM »
Iíve noticed Reed and Nabal seem to handle the heat pretty well compared to other varieties. Also Fuerte.

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #115 on: September 08, 2022, 12:10:45 AM »
Yeah i went out in the orchard today and the reeds and nabals are looking good.  Jan boyce was trashed.  I need to top work all the jan boyce and sir prize trees.  So many trees to top work...  Total PITA. 
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #116 on: September 08, 2022, 07:05:20 AM »
When you cut back your Jan Boyce or others with good tasting fruit, keep me in mind for scions.  I can't help it... I still want to trial and taste everything even though you're probably right in your assessments and will save me time and energy. 

Janet


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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #117 on: September 08, 2022, 10:53:52 PM »
I'm surprised  Ardith made the bad list, I watched a YouTube video that epicenter made today and Ardith won the taste test,but can't remember if 50 avo kinds were in the taste test or 50 people were on the panel of tasters.

Avoman

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #118 on: September 09, 2022, 12:43:12 PM »
I think commercial farmers are planting a lot of gem now for 2 main reasons,first the tree tends to set fruit out of sun inside canopy and 2 with high priced picking cost it save farmers alot of money being a smaller tree, also farmers are planting much closer than hass trees,some will plant as close as 6 to 8 feet apart. Some experts also say gem takes the heat and cold slightly better than Hass but I don't know if they are guessing or if true, almost any kind have good and bad qualities depending alot in what climates they are planting in.Brad has some great insights in what has worked well for him.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2022, 12:53:06 PM by Avoman »

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #119 on: September 09, 2022, 02:26:45 PM »
Ive done side by side taste tests with ardith and reed and lamb several times and it always ends in last place.  The oil level and taste is never as good as reed.  So for me theres really no point to growing it.  I rather eat reeds period.   Ardith takes forever to get the oil level up and then when they are almost good, they fall off the tree.  I chainsawed that tree doen and have 0 regrets. 
Brad Spaugh

spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #120 on: September 09, 2022, 02:36:51 PM »
I think commercial farmers are planting a lot of gem now for 2 main reasons,first the tree tends to set fruit out of sun inside canopy and 2 with high priced picking cost it save farmers alot of money being a smaller tree, also farmers are planting much closer than hass trees,some will plant as close as 6 to 8 feet apart. Some experts also say gem takes the heat and cold slightly better than Hass but I don't know if they are guessing or if true, almost any kind have good and bad qualities depending alot in what climates they are planting in.Brad has some great insights in what has worked well for him.

Thats exactly why they are growing GEM.  Its a nice compact tree that makes lots of fruit that can be passed off as hass. 

I noticed you didn't mention that it has superior flavor or oil level.  Because it doesnt.  So theres that.  If you are going for quantity over quality, go for it.  Grow some lambs too...  (Thats not directed at you, just a general statement to make the point).  The most rediculous part is that the breeding program used gwen to develop these sub par hass imposters.  Gwen is an excellent fruit, the only problem is they cant pass it off as hass because the skin isnt as black.  So what do they do?  Plant thousands of gwen seeds until an offspring has black skin and high yields and good enough flavor and pawn it off as hass.  Its absurd.  What they should do is stop with their obsession with black avocado skins and sell what actually tastes good(gwen, sharwil, etc).  But no, that would make too much sense.   ::)

« Last Edit: September 09, 2022, 04:00:18 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #121 on: September 09, 2022, 03:09:57 PM »
By the way, I know people dont like hearing that about GEM they say it tastes very similar to hass.  Ive eaten enough of them and had them early and way late into the season and they just are not as good as hass. They have ripening issues, grit in the skin, off color flesh, and lower oil and less nuttiness than hass or gwen.  Its just not as good.  You really need to wait really late into the season before they even start getting anywhere close to a regular hass.  In May regular hass is prime here.  For GEM, it needs to wait until late June or July to peak.  And at that time, I still rate it lower than a hass or gwen.  In fact I like gwen way better, its strange gwen isn't marketed.  I think if given the choice, consumers would agree. 
Brad Spaugh

johnb51

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #122 on: September 09, 2022, 04:02:55 PM »
What they should do is stop with their obsession with black avocado skins and sell what actually tastes good.  But no, that would make too much sense.   ::)
Mango lovers are so lucky to have had Gary Zill select not for looks but for superior flavor instead! ;D
John

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #123 on: September 09, 2022, 04:41:14 PM »
I can't speak first hand as I've never had a Ardith so not sure why panel thought it was number 1 in the taste test, maybe the Hass they were comparing it too was a early picked Hass out of a gorcery store who knows hard to say, I do want to grow a few Hass and Gwen down the road to compare for myself, on that same taste test Boony Doon was rated as number 2 but few people even have Boony Doon trees, I heard they are cold hardy trees but small fruit and large seed. I like Bacon and Zutano for taste so I must be werd, they would fire me if I was on a taste rating panel.

Avoman

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Re: Overhyped avocados
« Reply #124 on: September 09, 2022, 05:04:48 PM »
I have a small bad list so far that I'm sure it will get bigger, no Holiday,Wilma, little Cado or Mexicola will be grown.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2022, 05:08:41 PM by Avoman »

 

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