WARNING - Seeds Del Mundo - Money Sent - Most dead on arrival.

[agreendream]

This is a warning about Seeds Del Mundo.
I placed an order with them and it took a month for them to give me any notification about the order. They has my money all the time.
Then they shared a picture of the seedlings that they would send, at least one was already dead.
They provided a shipping/tracking link. But the agent after a week listed the delivery as "sorry we have not been able to ship your items, please keep checking". It has now been a few weeks and nothing changed.
Wesley at Seeds Del Mundo does not answer any messages.
They took my money and give me nothing.

Very bad!!

[Seeds Del Mundo]

Hi Christopher (Agreendream),

Again please stop spreading unfair messages about us. Again we've called you, we have e-mailed you multiple times, we have stated we will refund you after the investigation of the carrier is finished and still you are so unwilling to listen and so impatience :-(

I will report this behaviour to the moderators, we don't want to be associated with you or these unfair chats.
For everybody who is reading this: please read this message with all information, what will clear everything about this unjustified message

https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=43772.msg472506#msg472506

With Tropical Love and Care,

Wesley, Sandra, Donat (Team Seeds Del Mundo)

[agreendream]

DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY WITH THIS COMPANY.
Seeds Del Mundo are a scam business.

Three months, I finally get the order. I paid an extra $100 to get fast shipment (3 days).
Everything is rotten. Lots of the seeds are smashed.

I have 16 emails back and forth, they do not refund me but keep telling me they are a good business. They lie!

[JakeFruit]

I merged this topic with the previous one you started. Updating the situation is the proper thing to do, but starting new topics/threads regarding the same issue is not.

[roblack]

What's the date on the postmark, and the delivery date? How long in transit?

[JakeFruit]

As Rob asks, a clear picture of the packaging as addressed is needed. Proving that it was shipped on the expected date with 3-Day Priority (or not) is the crux of the dispute.

[agreendream]

What's the date on the postmark, and the delivery date? How long in transit?

Order date.
Delivery firm giving notice they would not meet the date, which was an additional cost.
Email informing them that the date had been missed.
Here we are, 13-10-22 and they still have not refunded.

The business is angry with me for sharing this dreadful service, yet still could just fix it and I can delete the matter.

[agreendream]

Sorry, I only added one image

[agreendream]

As Rob asks, a clear picture of the packaging as addressed is needed. Proving that it was shipped on the expected date with 3-Day Priority (or not) is the crux of the dispute.

Package arrived on the 8th of October.

[Amy K]

It's so faded and hard to read. But according to that white piece is paper which I can see, the sent date is 11-09-2565

Which is September 11, 2022.

[JakeFruit]

The order was placed on August 10th and shipped on September 11th, that's not an outrageous span of time to get an order of live plants & seeds together, but SDM should have been communicating the situation and status of the order. The *fastest* order I've ever received was ~2 weeks after placing it, most have been 3-4 weeks. But, importantly, all the orders I've placed came with the seller telling me when they expected to ship. Communication is key, and it looks like SDM did not do that. Excusing delays or lack of communication AFTER the fact does not relieve the buyer of the anxiety they experienced waiting and wondering if they have been scammed. If a seller is going on an extended holiday or other break, messaging all their active buyers *PRIOR* is essential. Only an actual emergency has any weight against the lack of communication.


Looking at SDM's Terms & Conditions, they cover this situation and absolve themselves of rectifying any loss. I would hope they would eat their profit and attempt a re-shipment of the order, that's always been my experience in these situations, but they cannot be compelled. I don't see that they've been dishonest or they could have prevented what occurred; stuff happens when you are shipping across international borders. The best advice is always use a payment method that comes with money-back protection and use a shipment method that comes with an insured guarantee if a shipment doesn't arrive within a certain time (though I doubt that would have been available with an international shipment).

[agreendream]

Dear JakeFruit,

Thank you. For me, ALL of this comes down to an issue with communication.
Every interaction with a business is different and comes with potential complications. I am accustomed to a business making it their focus to reassure a customer when there is a problem, a normal practice based in respect and to assure return custom.

At every stage, SDM have been completely lacks, I even got a message from the business owner telling me he was away in Surinam, enjoying their land there and wanted to know if I would like to see pictures? Meanwhile the order I had placed was weeks late, most likely dead and I had no refund, what an odd proposition?? I am all for their success, holidays, etc, but if you have failed to provide the agreed and paid-for service, please, at least make some effort to remedy the issue.

Regarding time scales for delivery, personally, if there is a service offered with a set time frame at a massively increased charge, I expect that time frame to be achieved. If not, a conversation is to be offered about a resolution.

Communication, again, if your business is still taking money, but staff are on holiday, then an automated email response that tells the customer what is happening, would be so obvious.

The order was placed on August 10th and shipped on September 11th, that's not an outrageous span of time to get an order of live plants & seeds together, but SDM should have been communicating the situation and status of the order. The *fastest* order I've ever received was ~2 weeks after placing it, most have been 3-4 weeks. But, importantly, all the orders I've placed came with the seller telling me when they expected to ship. Communication is key, and it looks like SDM did not do that. Excusing delays or lack of communication AFTER the fact does not relieve the buyer of the anxiety they experienced waiting and wondering if they have been scammed. If a seller is going on an extended holiday or other break, messaging all their active buyers *PRIOR* is essential. Only an actual emergency has any weight against the lack of communication.


Looking at SDM's Terms & Conditions, they cover this situation and absolve themselves of rectifying any loss. I would hope they would eat their profit and attempt a re-shipment of the order, that's always been my experience in these situations, but they cannot be compelled. I don't see that they've been dishonest or they could have prevented what occurred; stuff happens when you are shipping across international borders. The best advice is always use a payment method that comes with money-back protection and use a shipment method that comes with an insured guarantee if a shipment doesn't arrive within a certain time (though I doubt that would have been available with an international shipment).

[Seeds Del Mundo]

Hi Christopher,

You are twisting things like crazy, I don't really don't know what's your problem.
To wrap it all up:

* First you stated that we have not shipped at all, Now you post the images of the arrival of the goods. Thank you so much for that so you confirm with this we DO shipped it to you. So in other words you contradict yourself 
Thank you for that and showing everybody we do are a trustful team :-)  This proves we have always shipped what we have promised.
Fun fact: we even tried to spoil you as you can see in the picture. Example:  you had ordered Capuacu sprouted seeds and as you can see...With all best love and efforts my mother had packed big Capuacu seedlings. This is what we often do for the love of plants and the love of our fellow gardening friends. You did not even notice this because you are in a negative state of mind.

* Christopher @Agreendream: You still spreading lies and unjustified messages in here even after I have already e-mailed you with the whole explanation. I will put a screenshot down below for everybody to see 100% transparency!

* Thank you @JakeFruit for letting Christopher (agreendream) know how it really works and yes of course it's all communication and we have all explained it all.

*@Christopher (Agreendream): you talk about "it's all communication" and your completely right that this is the key but it looks like you are a bit confused or you are two different persons.  One one hand you are sending understanding e-mails to us and on the other hand you are complaining here on the forum with a lot unfair information. Are you the same person as the person that is chatting right here? What is happening with you? Why are you so full of hate, disgust and untruthfulness :-(  Being in this kind of state in life will be not good for you personal health.

* Again and again, I will repeat myself, Yessss our first reply to your e-mail was 14 days later than usual due to our holiday with the children. We did put that on our website and automatic e-mail reply and after that, we had good contact right? 

For everybody I will add a screenshot below what we have emailed to Christopher for the 100% full transparency because Agreendream (Christopher) is really taking this whole simple issue to a childish untrustfull terrorising level.

If Communication is the Key, why won't you pick up your phone when I call you to talk it out? Why are you lying about straight up facts? Why are you not reply to the e-mail we have sent you? (To all readers: look at the date of sending and the date of the post in this forum of Christopher) And in the meanwhile still spreading unfair messages about us?

This is really getting too pathetic right now, but I believe in the power of LOVE. So I hope you will find some goodness in your heart en reflect your own actions. 

We often refund 50% of the value from the order that are is arrived or delayed too long etc. or we resent the package when the customer is willing to pay the shipping. There are hundreds of customers who can confirm this on this forum, but it is all in good communication. The thing you are doing right now is taking too much negative time and energy so PLEASE READ YOUR E-MAIL and REPLY as an adult instead of putting all this hate messages in this forum.

Again I really hope you will see the light and can redeem yourself of all this develish hate.

P.S. This is our LAST message in here, because we don't want to be sucked in this negativity again. To close of I copy pasted a big and important message for your email (as you can see in the screenshot below) directly here:

===
Important to know:
I want to ask you kindly to never order with us again.
If you do, we will cancel your order immediately, so please don't try it again.

I wish you all the best in life and I hope you will have a little bit of a "self reflection" and see how you have created a whole unneeded hateful situation that is not beneficial for anybody, not even for yourself. Treat people how you want to be treated, communicate with respect and honesty, believe in love not in hate, and your life will be a lot more loving and caring. Again, I wish you all the best and I hope we can end this discussion for once and for all.

Last important note: If you keep on Blackmailing us and spreading unfair messages about us that could damage our reputation, we will take legal actions against you.
We've documented this all already to our attorney who is has also already made up a file in the country where your shipping address is stated. Please let's talk like adults so we don't have to go through these steps.
===

SEE THIS SCREENSHOT BELOW WHAT WE HAVE SENT TO CHRISTOPHER. LOOK AT THE DATE OF SENDING AND THE DATE OF HIS MESSAGE IN HERE. He is not responding on our email but is spreading hate in here. This is not so nice :-(



For the extra extra final information to clear our name once and for all, see the picture below how we have sent the order out 

[agreendream]

Wesley, you are attacking a customer who noted to others the service they experienced.
The moderator has not blocked or banned me, so I understand from that I have not been mistaken.


Your poor service has been the problem, but you are determined to blame me, the customer, who paid you!

To respond to your latest slander.
You advised me this would arrive on the 15th (see your email). Your responses to emails was very poor (you state holidays etc, you should have an auto email response so people know, rather then left guessing). So, as the customer, when nothing arrives after the date you stated, I began to worry, naturally. When weeks passed and your communication was still random, I had posted here to warn people, after all I had NOT received the package. Once, a long time later 9th October the package arrived, I updated the post with the quality I received. Yet again, this is not my abusing you! This is the service I experienced as a customer, that simple.

Your resolution email arrived on the 12th of October, I understand only after you learned I had warned people. (Did it take that action to get a proper response from you?). I read just the start of that email, the tone was so aggressive! Bare in mind, I paid money a long time ago, paid extra for fast shipping and then just had complications, I do not want or have the energy to pour into this anymore. Your THREAT of legal action, well, I honestly cant understand the way you speak to customers?? So, yes, I have not fully read your last email because this is all upsetting.

Then, the very strange thing and I hope the group/members will correct me if I am wrong!
You insist you "spoilt me" with the sprouted seeds (I had paid you for) but when you sent that picture it looks like one of the five seedlings has begun to die, it has lost its first leaves. Now, I did not challenge you about that, one, because these things are alive and that can happen and two it might.... recover. Proving to the forum you spoilt me, by sending the items I paid for, confusing.

Yes, I have sent simple emails to you. It has done me no good, despite months having passed. So, yes my tone in this forum is angry. Further, why on earth would I send an angry message to a business I already cant get service from!? That would be like shooting myself in the foot.



Wesley, I am absolutely tired of dealing with your business, its very upsetting and brings NO good.
My bet is, this is a big mess up on your part and that normally you don't do this. Some of your messages were very lighthearted so I assume this is your normal state. I wish you and your business success and REALLY hope you do not treat anyone this way again.
I have no idea if I really will get any kind of refund but I will NOT be engaging with you or this matter anymore. It has cost me too much.

(If the moderators require anything then I will respond, but only at their request).

Hi Christopher,

You are twisting things like crazy, I don't really don't know what's your problem.
To wrap it all up:

* First you stated that we have not shipped at all, Now you post the images of the arrival of the goods. Thank you so much for that so you confirm with this we DO shipped it to you. So in other words you contradict yourself 
Thank you for that and showing everybody we do are a trustful team :-)  This proves we have always shipped what we have promised.
Fun fact: we even tried to spoil you as you can see in the picture. Example:  you had ordered Capuacu sprouted seeds and as you can see...With all best love and efforts my mother had packed big Capuacu seedlings. This is what we often do for the love of plants and the love of our fellow gardening friends. You did not even notice this because you are in a negative state of mind.

* Christopher @Agreendream: You still spreading lies and unjustified messages in here even after I have already e-mailed you with the whole explanation. I will put a screenshot down below for everybody to see 100% transparency!

* Thank you @JakeFruit for letting Christopher (agreendream) know how it really works and yes of course it's all communication and we have all explained it all.

*@Christopher (Agreendream): you talk about "it's all communication" and your completely right that this is the key but it looks like you are a bit confused or you are two different persons.  One one hand you are sending understanding e-mails to us and on the other hand you are complaining here on the forum with a lot unfair information. Are you the same person as the person that is chatting right here? What is happening with you? Why are you so full of hate, disgust and untruthfulness :-(  Being in this kind of state in life will be not good for you personal health.

* Again and again, I will repeat myself, Yessss our first reply to your e-mail was 14 days later than usual due to our holiday with the children. We did put that on our website and automatic e-mail reply and after that, we had good contact right? 

For everybody I will add a screenshot below what we have emailed to Christopher for the 100% full transparency because Agreendream (Christopher) is really taking this whole simple issue to a childish untrustfull terrorising level.

If Communication is the Key, why won't you pick up your phone when I call you to talk it out? Why are you lying about straight up facts? Why are you not reply to the e-mail we have sent you? (To all readers: look at the date of sending and the date of the post in this forum of Christopher) And in the meanwhile still spreading unfair messages about us?

This is really getting too pathetic right now, but I believe in the power of LOVE. So I hope you will find some goodness in your heart en reflect your own actions. 

We often refund 50% of the value from the order that are is arrived or delayed too long etc. or we resent the package when the customer is willing to pay the shipping. There are hundreds of customers who can confirm this on this forum, but it is all in good communication. The thing you are doing right now is taking too much negative time and energy so PLEASE READ YOUR E-MAIL and REPLY as an adult instead of putting all this hate messages in this forum.

Again I really hope you will see the light and can redeem yourself of all this develish hate.

P.S. This is our LAST message in here, because we don't want to be sucked in this negativity again. To close of I copy pasted a big and important message for your email (as you can see in the screenshot below) directly here:

===
Important to know:
I want to ask you kindly to never order with us again.
If you do, we will cancel your order immediately, so please don't try it again.

I wish you all the best in life and I hope you will have a little bit of a "self reflection" and see how you have created a whole unneeded hateful situation that is not beneficial for anybody, not even for yourself. Treat people how you want to be treated, communicate with respect and honesty, believe in love not in hate, and your life will be a lot more loving and caring. Again, I wish you all the best and I hope we can end this discussion for once and for all.

Last important note: If you keep on Blackmailing us and spreading unfair messages about us that could damage our reputation, we will take legal actions against you.
We've documented this all already to our attorney who is has also already made up a file in the country where your shipping address is stated. Please let's talk like adults so we don't have to go through these steps.
===

SEE THIS SCREENSHOT BELOW WHAT WE HAVE SENT TO CHRISTOPHER. LOOK AT THE DATE OF SENDING AND THE DATE OF HIS MESSAGE IN HERE. He is not responding on our email but is spreading hate in here. This is not so nice :-(



For the extra extra final information to clear our name once and for all, see the picture below how we have sent the order out 

[JakeFruit]

If a refund has been made by SDM, the amount refunded and proof of the refund posted here would be an appropriate end to this unfortunate saga.

[roblack]

I've ordered from Seeds Del Mundo before, with no problems.

Ordering seeds and plants internationally is complicated, with many factors outside of the seller's and buyer's power.

The complaint appears related to international shipping delay, with SDM taking the blame.

This thread makes me never want to sell anything to anyone ever again.

 

[agreendream]

I can confirm that of the $217.18 I paid to SDM they have refunded me $78.50.

If a refund has been made by SDM, the amount refunded and proof of the refund posted here would be an appropriate end to this unfortunate saga.

[JakeFruit]

I've ordered from Seeds Del Mundo before, with no problems.

Ordering seeds and plants internationally is complicated, with many factors outside of the seller's and buyer's power.

The complaint appears related to international shipping delay, with SDM taking the blame.

This thread makes me never want to sell anything to anyone ever again.

That's why I personally think it's important to play these situations out fully in one thread, there are key learnings for both buyers & sellers of seeds/plants here. Future buyers & sellers can benefit from seeing the pitfalls play out before they start their forays. I also think it can be helpful to detach the actual players in these situations and see it from a generic standpoint.


Generally, a seller in this space risks their plant/seed matter, growing matter/materials, cost of chemicals/fertilizers and planting/shipping containers. Larger sellers have additional operational costs & some also take on the (not insignificant) cost of legal certifications and other substantial hurdles that come with legitimate selling/shipping internationally. Seed sellers can ramp-up with nothing more than proper envelopes and plastic baggies, but selling live plants on anything above a hobby-scale can take significant initial investment.


Buyers generally risk nothing *but* their money, in that they are taking on the majority of the financial risk in any individual transaction. Buyers aren't making a profit, they can't offset financial loss against profits made on other transactions. Wise buyers cover their financial risks using proper payment methods and shipping insurances, but those options are not always known to new/novice buyers or necessarily available in all transactions. Sometimes a buyer (no matter how wise) has to take an uncovered risk, some seeds/plants are only available from smalltime, suspect sellers.


In this case, SDM is not a smalltime, suspect seller. They are a known seller with a well-designed storefront and numerous positive reports from past transactions. Agreendream had reasons to be confident in the risk he was taking, but it also seems he was a new buyer and not (fully) aware of the realities of ordering live plants. SDM could have definitely communicated better, but agreendream could also have been more patient and not taken to attacking their reputation online while SDM was still communicating with them and seemingly working towards some resolution.


The current financial toll in this transaction is being paid by agreendream. Not attempting to do the actual accounting, but it appears agreendream spent ~$217 on the transaction and SDM has (so far) refunded only the cost of shipping, ~$78. That means SDM is keeping ~$130 from the failed transaction (again, I'm not trying to call exact figures). Now, I don't know what financial hurdles SDM had to clear to acquire the plants & seeds, maybe their break-even cost is a large part of that $130. I don't know nor care to learn what that cost is, what I do know is agreendream is (currently) out a lot of money with nothing to show for it.


The long-term financial toll will be paid by SDM. No business needs this type of attention and, going by other accounts, SDM does a good job fulfilling buyers needs and makes things right when they fall short. It's obviously a legitimate family operation, not a bad actor who sets out to defraud buyers. From what I've learned of them during all of this back & forth, I would still purchase from SDM it they had something I needed and couldn't find locally. One bad apple spoils the bunch, but one horrible transaction shouldn't automatically outweigh many numerous successful ones.


Sad situation to see unfold, but hopefully some wisdom can be taken from it.

[Bush2Beach]

What does smalltime have to do with it?
The best sellers are the ones you can make a personal connection with and will often hook you up more.
Also don’t accept PayPal with buyer protection because there are fee’s deducted and why would you ever burn someone if your smalltime in a small network of fruit dorks?
Sending international is a huge pain in the ass and all risk is on the buyer.
I couldn’t wade through this epically long winded drama but ultimately that’s the bottom line .



“Sometimes a buyer (no matter how wise) has to take an uncovered risk, some seeds/plants are only available from smalltime, suspect sellers. “

[pagnr]

If your business model relies on International Shipping or Postal logistics and it breaks down along the way that is not the buyers problem.
If the buyer receives the seed in time but has a failure due to incorrect growing techniques that is not the sellers problem.
Yes, there is a risk to both parties with perishable live seed.
There are reasonable time delays, these could happen with delivery to your own mail box, or arrival to local post office, or regional mail sorting centre.
A couple of non delivery weekends can add a week plus to a delivery. That is beyond an International sellers control, buyers risk.
Unreasonable time delays are dragging out the main shipping leg from country to country.
That seems to be the sellers responsibility to me.

International seed trading has a lot of hurdles, such as Customs and Quarantine, normal seasonal postal delays etc.
It is well known that Covid has caused serious delays in mail and international shipping.
Seems to be better now, but there is still a lag in Air traffic and Shipping Container supply.

[JakeFruit]

What does smalltime have to do with it?
The best sellers are the ones you can make a personal connection with and will often hook you up more.
Also don’t accept PayPal with buyer protection because there are fee’s deducted and why would you ever burn someone if your smalltime in a small network of fruit dorks?
Sending international is a huge pain in the ass and all risk is on the buyer.
I couldn’t wade through this epically long winded drama but ultimately that’s the bottom line .

Smalltime/suspect meaning they are brand new to selling and/or don't have any history/track record with previous buyers, don't have an online storefront/order-processing system, don't inspire confidence with their communication, etc.,. I think the sellers you have in mind are not the same sellers I am meaning. There are many small sellers on here who have been transacting for years, you can read long threads of positive comments. There are also threads where sellers with little/no history ghosted buyers after taking their money. It's the risk involved with encountering the latter I'm talking about.


Regarding PayPal, buyer protection is standard in transactions, it's included and should be expected. If a seller can't work the 2.9% + $0.30 transaction fee into their price, it's suspect and I'd be asking the seller why. Paying via PayPal using "Friends & Family" is how you get scammed; the buyer has absolutely no protection. If a seller with no track record is telling a buyer to pay using Friends and Family, the buyer needs to be at peace with never seeing their money again along with whatever it is they purchased.

[brian]

It seems like there are two schools of thought on ecommerce:

1) It is up to the seller to deliver the product, as described, to the buyer in the delivery timeframe.  If there shipment is lost, damaged, delayed, the seller should replace or refund in full, and it is up to the seller to pursue any compensation from the carrier (shipping company)
2) It is up to the seller to deliver the product, as described, to the carrier in the delivery timeframe and with the buyer-selected shipping method.  Once handed off the the carrier, the seller's responsibility ends and if there is a shipping/customs/any other problem it is up to their buyer to handle

I lean towards #1, and that's why I never sell anything internationally as I have no clue what to expect sending out of country.  I think #2 is only reasonable if the buyer is made very clear that seller's responsibility ends at package handoff.  Certainly some people would be willing to take this risk if there is no alternative.