Author Topic: White sapote roots — are they invasive?  (Read 1795 times)

Epicatt2

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White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« on: January 02, 2024, 05:06:45 AM »
I've read that white sapote's (Casimiroa edulis) root run can reach a good ways out from the tree's base.  The suggestion was to not plant a white sapote within 25 feet of one's house or a concrete sidewalk because the roots might buckle the concrete, etc.

Mine is in a 5 gal pot (for over 3 yrs, now) and while it's kinda scrawny it's about 15 feet tall and has finally branched from just the top third, upwards.  It definitely needs to go into the ground this season.  I'm guessing that it should be planted while we're still in the cooler parts of the year.  I have mostly sandy soil. 

Once planted and established this season I'm thinking that it should probably be toppped at about 4 to 5 feet and lthen let it regrow from there.  Or would that be too drastic of a prune?

Could some of our TFF members who have experience with growing white sapote comment on these questions, please?

HYN All,

Paul M.
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VOLANT007

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2024, 05:20:58 AM »
what variety is it?

Epicatt2

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2024, 06:09:08 AM »
what variety is it?

I believe that it's 'Redland' but it might possibly be 'Suebelle'.

The thrid one that I have is just an unnamed seedling but with parentage unknown.  Bought from TopTrop a couple of years ago in a 1 gal pot.

So knowing the rooting habit/spread of each of these would be useful.

Paul M.
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Galatians522

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2024, 06:43:46 AM »
The white sapote at my dad's place (in ground for ~20 years) does not seem to have roots that are any more invasive than lychee or mango. However, it is probably several hundred feet from any structure. I would think the 25' recommendation is good for any large tree.

Jack, Nipomo

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2024, 08:30:40 AM »
If it is a Suebelle it is a much smaller tree, like a peach tree.  Check for fuzzy leaf undersides.

sc4001992

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2024, 11:07:40 AM »
Good advice on any large fruit as mentioned above, if the tree grows fast and large, it may have a large root system. But I have been growing white sapote in my small yard for over 8-10 years now, mainly seedling trees I grew from seed. They do have a large root area, much more than a loquat or mango or citrus tree of similar age. I have many citrus trees in ground that are over 30 years old, and they do not have the large size root area as the white sapote. But mulberry trees are the ones with the bad invasive root system that will grow outwards from the main trunk, maybe over 10 feet under soil easily. I'm eventually getting rid of my large trees one at a time, putting them back in pots.

White sapote trunks can get up to (10"-20") but most trees I have seen have good tap roots and the roots seem to stay closer to the trunk and not grow out as much as a mulberry. When I dug up my 20 foot seedling tree (10 yr old, 10" diameter trunk with 2 seedlings fused together), I only needed to dig about 6 feet in diameter of the trunk to get all the roots dug up, most were deep roots downwards, not going out. My other white sapote trees grow in similar fashion, don't see any roots going outside of 5-10 feet from the main trunk of the tree.

To answer your second question, don't trim off the main trunk/central leader branch until after you get your first fruits. If you cut it down, it may take longer to get the first fruits on the tree. I see this on my seedling loquat trees, I never cut it back until it has its first fruits, then I can shape or keep it to the desired height. My white sapote seedlings were the same, I let it grow as tall as it wants until I see the first flowers and fruits, then I start trimming it down to the final height I want to keep it. My seedling white sapote trees all fruited in 5-10 years by letting the central leader/trunk grow without being topped off.

SanDiegoCherimoya

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2024, 10:37:58 PM »
White sapote trunks can get up to (10"-20")

I’ve seen 3ft wide. They tap into the water table and get huge.

sc4001992

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2024, 11:00:50 PM »
How old do you estimate the 3ft diameter tree to be?

Epicatt2

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2024, 02:02:29 AM »
White sapote trunks can get up to (10"-20")

I’ve seen 3ft wide. They tap into the water table and get huge.

Wow!  Wnoder how long that it takes one to get so huge?

I don't think that I'll have that problem with mine here in Tampa cuz
my lot sits in the middle of a block which is the top of a gently broad
shallow-topped hill.

For that reason I'm sure that due to the above about my block it's gonna
require a stretch of the roots on the part of a Casimroa edulis to reach
down to our water table.  That and plus I have sandy soil in my yard.

But the earlier answers  in this thread were very useful for helping
me to decide where I should locate my 'Redland' or 'Suebelle'.

Thanx All . . . !

Paul M.
==

SanDiegoCherimoya

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2024, 09:31:18 PM »
How old do you estimate the 3ft diameter tree to be?

30-40 years

SanDiegoCherimoya

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2024, 10:08:50 PM »
But these types of trees become more rare overtime especially in San Diego. Properties get inherited from the original farmers and sold for development. It just goes to show the declining state of humanity where humans become more like dogs dependent for their food.

sc4001992

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2024, 07:02:47 AM »
SanDiegoCherimoya, that is an old and large tree. I just went to the CSUF arboretum again yesterday to see their large white sapote trees. Their trees are over 45years old and it is not that big. I estimate their trunk size to be 24-28" in diameter (next time I will take a tape measure).

Can you take a photo of the old tree and fruit photo if it has any now? I took some more photos of the CSUF white sapote tree so I can post it later here. It had some fruits on the McDill tree (one of the oldest tree in SoCal) but it was high on the tree. The roots seemed to go deep, but not wide from shape of the trunk to me. They have two very old trees at the arboretum. My seedling trees are from this McDill tree fruits and now I have my first flowers forming on my tree now. They also have the Wooly Leaf (yellow) sapote next to the McDill and my other seedlings are from that fruit which already fruited for me and tastes excellent.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2024, 02:12:49 AM by sc4001992 »

Greater Good

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2024, 12:11:40 PM »
White sapote trunks can get up to (10"-20")

I’ve seen 3ft wide. They tap into the water table and get huge.

Wow!  Wnoder how long that it takes one to get so huge?

Keeping it pruned could slow it. Letting it grow large, that tap root will find water 💧.

I don't think that I'll have that problem with mine here in Tampa cuz
my lot sits in the middle of a block which is the top of a gently broad
shallow-topped hill.

For that reason I'm sure that due to the above about my block it's gonna
require a stretch of the roots on the part of a Casimroa edulis to reach
down to our water table.  That and plus I have sandy soil in my yard.

But the earlier answers  in this thread were very useful for helping
me to decide where I should locate my 'Redland' or 'Suebelle'.

Thanx All . . . !

Paul M.
==

greenerpasteur

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2024, 12:20:50 PM »
I was able to tried some white sapote from Kaz and it definitely left a good impression on me.. I'm tempted to grow one but they can get very huge. I've seen 2-3 story high sapote in SoCal and block sunlight out of my other trees.

Grow mango, atemoya, seedless guava or white sapote is my dilemnia now.

sc4001992

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2024, 02:11:47 PM »
I would also mention from your list, the white sapote is the lowest maintenance tree. Just water it once a week and it is happy. Also, if you plant a wooly leaft sapote for rootstock it can be small (under 10ft) and not wide (4-6 ft) forever. I deliberately encourage my wooly leaf seedling (from CSUF) to grow more branches and as tall as it wants so that I can add more varieties to it. My wooly leaf tree is about 10 ft tall now and it has 30 varieties grafted on this tree. This tree is about 7-8 years old.

sc4001992

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2024, 11:33:05 PM »
Here's the CSUF arboretum white sapote photos below: 2 large trees, one has no variety name, the other is the McDill.

















maruusa0106

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2024, 09:46:47 PM »
Once the tree is planted in the ground, you can prune some of the branches to create a more balanced tree structure and encourage new growth. However, avoid pruning too drastically, as this can stress the tree and affect its health.

Rispa

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2024, 02:41:11 AM »
I wonder if this plant like others can be kept smaller by pruning and as a result have a smaller root system

Epicatt2

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2024, 02:47:11 AM »
[Bogus chatbot quote edited out by me.]

My situation now is that this (now planted) sapote was in a 7 gallon pot sitting in a saucer and would drink all the water n the saucer within one day if the temps were high enough here, which is most of our Florida summertime.

Problem causing me to finally plant it in the ground is that it suddenly dropped all its leaves, even though it was getting enough water, regularly. (It maybe resented the fluctuating temps.) And once in ground it finished dropping the rest of its few remaining leaves and sat there for about three weeks doing apparently nothing.

As of this writing it has begun to leaf out from an existing side-branch about two/thirds up its height (at about six feet). The very top quarter seems to be dead but I haven't given up on it yet.  It may still have some life left nearer the top.  It is now on an irrigation system that I run about every third day when it doesn't rain.

Fingers X-ed for it to recover its vigor.

Paul M.
==


« Last Edit: April 11, 2024, 07:20:11 PM by Epicatt2 »

Oolie

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2024, 03:26:17 AM »
Maruusa is an AI chatbot.

White sapotes are very hardy and very fast growers when established, but that can take time. If the tree has fuzzy leaves, they are often less vigorous and can be maintained at a smaller size.

The vigorous ones get really large once established, mine is a subelle seedling and is rather moderate, but I've seen yards with many that get no irrigation at all in dry areas, and those trees are large and vigorous growers.

mangoba

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2024, 04:36:16 PM »
My seedling white sapote trees all fruited in 5-10 years by letting the central leader/trunk grow without being topped off.

I wish I read this sooner, my seedling got taller than me and was looking lanky and ungly so I did the deed :( I hope I will get to taste it in my lifetime.

K-Rimes

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2024, 04:51:08 PM »
My seedling white sapote trees all fruited in 5-10 years by letting the central leader/trunk grow without being topped off.

I wish I read this sooner, my seedling got taller than me and was looking lanky and ungly so I did the deed :( I hope I will get to taste it in my lifetime.

Don't think it'll make a big difference. You'll get fruit. Them being super lanky and tall is really common.

SanDiegoCherimoya

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2024, 07:46:34 PM »
No,

But the property is well known by CRFG. Unfortunately, relatives of the deceased are destroying the property

SanDiegoCherimoya, that is an old and large tree. I just went to the CSUF arboretum again yesterday to see their large white sapote trees. Their trees are over 45years old and it is not that big. I estimate their trunk size to be 24-28" in diameter (next time I will take a tape measure).

Can you take a photo of the old tree and fruit photo if it has any now? I took some more photos of the CSUF white sapote tree so I can post it later here. It had some fruits on the McDill tree (one of the oldest tree in SoCal) but it was high on the tree. The roots seemed to go deep, but not wide from shape of the trunk to me. They have two very old trees at the arboretum. My seedling trees are from this McDill tree fruits and now I have my first flowers forming on my tree now. They also have the Wooly Leaf (yellow) sapote next to the McDill and my other seedlings are from that fruit which already fruited for me and tastes excellent.

Jack, Nipomo

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2024, 08:06:46 PM »
Just to join the "size matters" group, I went out and measured my big white sapote tree.  It is 26-27 inches at ground level.  It is a Vernon tree mainly, but with Pike on 1/2 and  several others grafted on also.  It is by itself so roots are not a problem.  It is a massive tree and fruit fall is huge.  About 45-50 years ago when I planted it, I was told to keep it far away due to the fruit fall.  Found that to be very true.

Epicatt2

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Re: White sapote roots — are they invasive?
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2024, 10:24:00 AM »
So...does a tall, lanky white sapote, depending on the cultivar in question, respond well
to pruning to keep it manageable for harvesting the fruit?  I'm considering purning back
mine which is in the ground and ten feet tall to keep it at about eight feet tall. It's trunk
is only about 2-inches in diameter.

Will pruning like this cause the tree to sulk and reduce the amount of fruit it will set?

It's either a 'Redland' or possibly a 'Sue Bell' or its seedling.

Paul M.
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