Author Topic: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?  (Read 9873 times)

simon_grow

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Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« on: August 29, 2013, 06:07:14 PM »
Does this look like Fei Zi Siu Lychee? This first picture is what Chinese call Hak Ip next to what I believe is a Fei Zi Siu Lychee. The Hak Ip is the smaller and red colored fruit. The Hak Ip weighed in at 27.4 grams and is the largest fruit I got in the bag. The FZS is still on the tree so I can't get an accurate weight but I guess it's approximately 40+ grams and is definitely larger than a golf ball. The color is mostly green with a little red and it has only gotten slightly more red in the last two weeks. It reached this size about two weeks ago when it's bumps sort of flattened out and the size does not appear to have increased in the last two weeks but its hard to say for sure.

 I have difficulty determining if it is ripe because the color does not seem to be getting any redder and it appears to have reached full size and bumps flattened out. I say the bumps flattened out but this is relative to how it was when it was smaller, this variety appears to retain its spikeyness but it just becomes less sharp and the bumps round out slightly.

I only got six fruit from my tree this year and only two fruit developed normally. Two fruit were joined together like siamese twins and are very small and very spikey but these fruit were in the sun and turned much more red. The last two fruit are extremely long and were also in the sun and are much more red but the flesh is not filling in at all. These two long fruit reached maximum size about a month ago and it reached full redness about three weeks ago but I left it on the tree because I was hoping it would fill in, I believe the fruit is over ripe now. If I didn't see it with my own eyes, I would absolutely believe these three phenotypes were from three different varieties of lychees.
Simon


simon_grow

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2013, 06:13:26 PM »
Fruit next to quarter

Fruit next to golf ball


simon_grow

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2013, 07:04:00 PM »
Pic of the twins

The long fruit that isn't filling in


Mike T

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2013, 07:26:27 PM »
In the first pic that sure looks like a classic Haak yip in your hand and the second is within the variations of FZS.That longer fruit that hasn't filled out also is within the variations of FZS.They are looser skinned,softer fleshed and often greener when ripe than most.When they redden like haak yip it is a maroon color rather than bright red.I posted pix of FZS maybe 9 months ago with weights and lengths.

Tim

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2013, 07:52:49 PM »
That's a junior size golf ball buddy, kidding ;D
What's bigger, your VDB fig or the lychee?
Tim

simon_grow

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2013, 09:22:40 PM »
Hey Mike T, I'll look for the post to compare.  Do you think the lychee is ready to pick or should I wait for it to turn more red?

Tim, the Lychee is larger.  The first VDB's were very large but the later ones were smaller.  There was definitely some Raspberry flavor in the VDB's that were left to fully ripen. 

Unfortunately, I will be unable to taste neither of the supposed FZS Lychees that developed properly because one is going to my dad for identification and the other is going to my mother in law for identification.  I will be able to get a final weight when I harvest the Lychees but I will not be able to get any pictures of the inside of the properly developed fruit.  I will definitely post pictures of the Siamese twins and also of the long fruit.  My father was a Lychee farmer in China and he should be able to identify the Lychee once he samples it.  Please feel free to talk about anything Lychee related and post any pictures of Lychee fruit or trees on this post.  I love Lychees and can't put into words how wonderfully delicious tree ripened Lychees truly are. 

Most store bought Lychees are just horrible and lack that Lychee scent and taste which I can only describe as Rose or honeysuckle like.  What chinese call "Hak Ip" in China and Hong Kong(the smaller fruit in the first picture) is absolutely delicious when it is harvested fresh off the tree.  The ones that we get here in the USA are so bland in comparison. 

I experimented with my Lychee tree this year by giving it a good amount of organic N-P-K fertilizer while blooms were just forming knowing that I should not be doing this so early but I had to find out for sure if it would be detrimental to final harvest and it appears it is very bad for final harvest.  Organic fertilizers can take a while to work so I applied the fertilizer about 1 month before I expected the tree to actually be able to receive any of the nutrients.  Next year and the year after, I will experiment with trying to have it drastically increase the total weight at harvest by doing the recommended post harvest pruning followed by foliar feeding one week after pruning.  The Organic fertilizer application didn't seem to inhibit flowering too much but it did spur unusual growth of bloom panicles coming directly off lateral branches instead of tips of the branch. 

Initial fruit set appeared to be very high as I estimated over 1,000 lychee fruit were actually set and increasing in size but I believe the slow action of the organic N-P-K fertilizers finally stimulated partial vegetative growth towards the end of the bloom cycle.  The partial vegetative growth was very small and only initiated several leaves per branch that abruptly stopped growing while the initial lychee fruit set continued to enlarge.  After the first natural fruit drop period that some believe is due to non pollinated ovaries, I counted approximately 6-700 small lychee fruit that were about pea sized.  After the second natural fruit drop, I counted approximately 3-400 lychee that were enlarging to the size of about two peas.  At this point, there was another incomplete vegetative flush of only several leaves and at this point, lots of the fruit started to drop at a pretty steady rate.  I knew something was wrong when near dime to nickel sized fruit started to drop.  Shortly after, I saw veg growth pimples started to form all along just about every branch and I knew that my tree was ready for a full on massive vegetative flush. 

The great thing is that I know that my tree is what it is supposed to be meaning that the nursery didn't accidentally give me a mislabeled tree.  My worst nightmare is waiting 10 years for my Lychee tree to fruit and finding out that the fruit is Brewster or Mauritius(sorry Lycheeluva). 
Simon
Simon

kh0110

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2013, 09:42:15 PM »
Hi Simon, may I ask where you got your FZS?
Thera

simon_grow

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2013, 11:24:16 PM »
Hello kh0110,

The supposed FZS was purchased here in San Diego at Ongs nursery and it was sold to me as swtheart. I am trying to figure out what Chinese variety it truly is. I know with certainty that it is definitely Not what Chinese call Hak Ip.
Simon

Mike T

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2013, 05:20:51 AM »


The pics I posted before of FZS were an Australian selection of it that is a little redder and stouter than the standard FZS which is more common here. Not many were over 50g if I recall correctly but they way bigger than other varieties still.

Mike T

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2013, 05:25:21 AM »


On some trees nearly all fruit have chicken tongue seeds. They can be eaten quite green as they are a low acid type but the one in the pic on the tree could be too green but chinese markets sell them that way.

bradflorida

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2013, 08:10:36 AM »
Hi Simon

Francis Zee from the USDA in Hawaii sent me some FZS budwood a couple of months ago.  I had a local nurseryman attempt to graft the material but all failed. 

Like you, I have thought that our Sweetheart is possibly really FZS.  It seems as if a true Hak Ip was a medium sized fruit with a medium seed. At least that's how older references describe it (Morton description and USDA pics).  Possibly the FZS got misidentified and then distributed from the Miami USDA. 

It would be nice to get a successful graft or be able to acquire an air layer that could be shipped here but that would involve quarantine for a couple of years I believe. 

Brad
Brad

kh0110

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2013, 01:22:50 PM »
Hi Simon

Francis Zee from the USDA in Hawaii sent me some FZS budwood a couple of months ago.  I had a local nurseryman attempt to graft the material but all failed. 
...

Brad, I got some scions from Dr. Zee around the same time as you also. I've grafted them on a couple of 2-ft Kaimanas. They haven't failed (yet!) but not going anywhere either. But the Kaimanas are pushing vigourously and maybe that's why the grafts are left in a stand still state. BTW, I only grafted on some branches of each tree.

Thera

Mike T

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2013, 06:46:29 PM »
I have posted a couple of links on lychee id's before and it does look like some of the variety names are mixed up in the US. Lychees are hard to graft but small air layers (4 or 5inches of wood) are not as difficult and I have heard about them being sent through the post.

simon_grow

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2013, 07:03:04 PM »
Thanks for posting the pics Mike T.  They sure look very similar to the one I posted.  I will wait until my fruit turns a little more red before harvesting for my dad and mother in law.

Hey Bradflorida, perhaps you can send Dr. Z some pictures of the fruit I posted and just ask him what he thinks it might be.  This can save you a lot of trouble as grafting Lychee can be very difficult.  I hear different varieties of Lychee can have different chromosome numbers and if you graft onto the wrong rootstock, even with excellent grafting technique, the graft can fail.  If Sweetheart really is FZS, it would be so much easier to purchase a Sweetheart Lychee instead of grafting the FZS. 

I harvested the twin lychee and also the two long, non filled in lychee yesterday and they all tasted pretty bad.  I would say they were a 3 out of 10.  Both the twins and the non filled in Lychees were definitely past their prime.  The non filled in lychee had no scent to it at all.  The twins had a good smell but tasted off because I believe they were harvested about 2 weeks too late.  I somewhat expected that these mal-formed lychees would not be prime tasting because of the strange way they were growing.  They reached maximum size a long time ago and I was hoping they would fill in more and flatten out the bumps on their shell but that never happened.  Also, this is the first crop on this tree, if you can call 6 lychees a crop, and the first couple crops from fruit trees can taste off. 

I believe the two remaining fruit that appear to be developing normally will taste better but I definitely expect the quality to increase in the next few years when it has an actual full blown crop.  This tree is definitely the same variety that Phase001 from Gardenweb grew and we both purchased the tree from the same nursery.  The fruit harvested from his more mature tree which carried a good crop was excellent quality.  All 4 of the lychees I sampled with my wife yesterday had atrophied seeds.  I hope to sample Kaimana, Ohia Pink, Salathiel, No Mai Tsze, Mauritius, Hanging Green and Bosworth 3 in the coming years. 
Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2013, 07:06:17 PM »
I have posted a couple of links on lychee id's before and it does look like some of the variety names are mixed up in the US. Lychees are hard to graft but small air layers (4 or 5inches of wood) are not as difficult and I have heard about them being sent through the post.

Several years ago, Dr. Z sent me some air layers of Hanging Green which I unfortunately killed.  They had to be grown in soilless media.  I believe the research station at Hilo Hawaii can no longer send air layers but they can still send scion material. 

Mike T

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2013, 07:20:27 PM »
An easy reference is the link posted by BMC shaded at the top of the library section of the forum about the rare fruit archives. Some of the 1980's lychee ID stories might be helpful.
On reflection that lychee might not be a FSZ and I would be leaning more to Yook ho pow (sum yee hong) which is the second old big high quality types.These days there are giant seedless chinese types that no one seems to be able to get and the mammoth Erdon Lee which seems to be under lock and key.

simon_grow

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2013, 10:53:27 PM »
I was inspecting my two remaining lychees today, the only two that developed normally and I noticed that the larger lychee had a small brown spot on it so I picked it. It smelled absolutely heavenly, the way a lychee should smell. I knew it was a large fruit but it weighed even more than I thought. Unfortunately, I will not be able to taste this lychee as it is going to my mother law.


Doglips

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2013, 07:29:09 AM »
Mother-in-law?

What does she beat you?

Tell her it got lost in the mail.

Impressive fruit.

simon_grow

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2013, 07:01:00 PM »
Haha, my mother in law forces me to eat tropical fruit and hooked me up with a lot of my plants. She also babysits my daughter expecting nothing in return, that horrible lady, lol.  My mother in law doesn't know what variety it is but she said it was the best Lychee she has ever tried. She said it was super juicy with lots of flesh and a very small seed. She also mentioned that it was the best smelling lychee that she could remember. She split half the lychee with husband and her husband was equally impressed.

My mother in law is super sweet so even if it tasted horrible, she would probably tell me it was wonderful but her husband on the other hand is very blunt and straight forward I believe they truly felt it was one of the best lychees they've ever eaten. Last year, they told me not to buy them anymore trees because there yard was already too full but after trying this Lychee, they asked me to make them an air layer. I believe they were just as impressed with the size of the fruit and seed as they were with the taste.

My father is much more experienced with Lychees and I should get a report back from him tonight as to what variety he believes it is.
Simon

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2013, 07:18:21 PM »
It is looking more like yook ho pow all the time.It is a really big type that can be eaten pretty green.

simon_grow

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2013, 03:41:48 AM »
One article "mas2005" says that the average size for YHP is 21 plus or minus 1.9 grams. My Lychees are double this weight. I just bumped another thread that has a link that appears to show that Yook Ho Pow is the same as Fei Zi Siu.
Simon

Mike T

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2013, 06:24:32 PM »
If you dig deeper on YHP you'll find it also goes by the name sum yee hong and it is the earliest fruiting.Chinese references list it as 40g as compared to FZS at 30g.YHP is rounder and rougher than FZS. The published weights of FZS are below what is actually seen here with individual fruit routinely exceeding 50g and this is also likely to be the case for YHP.

simon_grow

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2013, 10:29:38 PM »
After searching a little harder, I did find a reference that says YHP gets to about 40g and that FZS gets to 30g. I can find a few pictures of FZS but I can't seem to be able to find any pictures of YHP.

I waited another day after picking the first larger Lychee before picking the second one to give to my dad for evaluation. I was very careful how I asked my dad what variety he thought the Lychee could be. I didn't give him any names of Lychee varieties but simply asked him what he thought it was.

His first response was Kwa Luk. I asked him if he has ever eaten Kwa Zluk before and he said that he was offered Kwa Luk before but he didn't believe it was the real thing. I then asked him if it wasn't Kwa Luk, what other variety could it possibly be and he said he wasn't sure because it was too large to be Gwui Zhi Siu. I asked him if he meant Fei Zhi Siu and he said he calls it Gwui Zhi Siu. I'm not sure if these are the same thing? Perhaps the part of China he came from, they call it Gwui Zhi Siu or it could be some completely different Lychee.

I wasn't there the day he ate the Lychee but he said it was very sweet with a all seed and lots of meat. Even though this fruit was mostly green, he said it was fully ripe. This second smaller Lychee weighed in at 41.5g, the first one was 46.2g. He said it was a very good Lychee.


Mike T

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2013, 11:05:19 PM »
http://www.gov.mu/portal/sites/ncb/moa/farc/amas2005/presen/Session%2007/S7.3.pdf

This lychee evaluation from Mauritius mentions YHP but there is no picture. In Mauritius it is interesting they use the correct name for Mauritius lychee ie tai so.
That will be FZS that he was referring to as it can be spelt and pronounced in numerous ways.

BMc

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Re: Fei Zi Siu Lychee?
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2013, 04:27:33 AM »
There is a small pic of YHP, oval, green with red blush, high % of chicken tongues among the test group.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 04:30:00 AM by BMc »