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Messages - Kay

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KL was a bust, but I didn't Mornington chow kit.  Will in a few days when fly back.

Bangkok much better.

Mangosteen, sapodilla, durian are all here although not common.  Found orangutans once, but crazybexpensice at that market (everything was).

Even found a new, for me, salak type I never had before.  When I post pics would love a possible ID.  They are more red brown, narrower (maybe the season and lack of pollination) and harrier.

The usuals are easy to find banana melon was apple guavaetc.

Here for a few weeks.  Won't be able to get out of the cities much due to work, but so far I am finding almost nothing in KL. Any suggested markets or areas for fruit lovers?  I've been to these places before, and so far am still in KL and for the first time am coming up hugely empty handed with the more tropical style fruits!

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: rushed grafting onto large trees?
« on: June 22, 2015, 11:08:33 AM »
Thank you guys, I will try that now.  I will drive to the farm now to do it but i will check my phone if any updates/replies here while i grafting.  I will be trying cleft, veneer and bud style grafting.  i have about 10 20-40cm sticks i just cleaned up, so I hope 1 will take!  Big worry is i dont have any supplies so i am stuck using plastic food wrap, electrical tape and mango bags to cover from the sun.

I will go find parafilm and better supplies and keep them for next time, but this time around I was caught totally unprepared.

its midnight here now so cant get pictures, but will take some if any success.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / rushed grafting onto large trees?
« on: June 22, 2015, 04:03:03 AM »
Hello, i am sorry to post a question i think must have been answered before.  i am reading now but as i type my scions are getting older.  I was gifted some special scions.  but it was totally out of the blue and i have not prepared any stocks.  i do have 2 large "JinHuang" (Taiwanese name of an australian variety i think, forgot the english name.

So i have been reading madly about top working but many seem to talk about cutting prior to grafting then waiting for new growth, in this situation i cannot do this as the scions will die soon.  so i was thinking of doing cleft style grafts and cutting away most other growth, but im still reading as i go.  if anyone has any good advice or links for suggested methods i can graft scions to mature trees, id be very grateful.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Which plant attracts the most bees
« on: March 03, 2014, 09:33:56 AM »
seen as Taiwan was mentioned above, ti is common practice for jujube farms to get netted, sacks of manure laid and flies breed like nuts!  I hate jujube simply because it creates a MASSIVE fly season here.  No idea what type of fly.  Never seen anything other than manure sacks used to attract anything in mangoes here though, now they tend to just stick with spray on hormones and chemicals.

I know Palawan is off limits for disease, but does it spread throughout the country or is it just that area?

Tropical Fruit Online Library / Re: Rollinia resource
« on: July 20, 2013, 12:48:02 AM »
Very nice, thanks.

if you have Jstor access, you can obtain a LOT of very cool publications.  Ask friends who are university students if you want to find hard to get stuff.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best Tropical Fruit Books
« on: July 19, 2013, 11:54:09 PM »
Has anyone seen "Fruit Breeding: Tree and Tropical Fruits v. 1"

by Jules Janick

ISBN 13: 9780471310143
ISBN 10: 047131014X

yes, that's good point.  raising off ground.  we use plastic bench tops laid on top of some bamboo for this, allows easy drainage.  wont help in constant heavy rain but really helps in "normal" rains.

I didn't understand what you mean by wick, can you explain again?  Sounds interesting and would like to try, but i just don't get what is meant sorry :)

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best Tropical Fruit Books
« on: July 19, 2013, 09:14:06 AM »
PS i think Brunei must be one of the best countries to visit for exotic fruit, but almost nobody ever makes it over there, It's on my tops list of places to visit.

Is Brunei any different than adjacent areas of Borneo?

also avoid lots of organic stuff in soil.  here we also get long rain periods and root rot is very serious problem.  the fix here is to use clay soils mixed with coarser minerals like pumice then cat with a small percent of something like coco coir.  Here 50%+ coco and you will have rot in summer.  Same with various bagged "potting soils".  too much organic matter, and mushrooms are the proof.

Like above said, light mixes can be bad in dry weather, we have months of no rain.  so that why clay soil is also important.  I worst sun we have to water 27cm pots every 2 days or they die.

i agree moist sphagnum moss method is one of the best.  i use this for most seeds with great success.  GA3 seems better suited for dormant seeds and seeds that are really hard to crack.

For any artocarpus i have tried i had very good success with sphagnum moss as well.  make sure moss isnt moldy and dirty though.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Attn annona experts
« on: July 10, 2013, 01:17:28 AM »
cool plants. 

From seed, how early do you think they can be grafted onto something?  Would that be the best route to select plants with Annona?

There is a fish GA3 product as well, i have bought it but not yet used it until my better stuff runs out.

i dont use it for most tropical fruit, in general i find it better for dry seeds and/or seeds that have really hard shells and/or dormant.  I think i would try it for some Annona too though, sometimes they can take long time.

For most i like a 500ppm 12-24hr soak.  I like to take out as soon as i see swell and switch to normal water or plant.  No real proof why, but i always thought it was only used to help start germination, after that GA3's job is done.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: tree sap coming from my mango stems?
« on: July 10, 2013, 01:08:46 AM »
the ones in pictures are being eaten by something, its just damage.  you can see bite areas in middle picture.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Hurricane Season is here
« on: July 10, 2013, 01:06:56 AM »
Are more people building concrete/metal homes in USA now?    Seems wood is very risky in big storms?

We have similar weather here, only preparing for storms is keep wind break around or plant dense to avoid open areas.  open areas get hit around the edges by wind badly

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Vining fruits-What can you think of?
« on: July 03, 2013, 11:42:10 PM »
Hylocreus is technically a vine cactus.  there are numerous vining cactus.  Some species of Harrisia have interesting fruit (and flowers), but may be better classed as sprawlers/creepers/fallers?

you may also want to look at selenicereus for cactus fruit.  my personal opinion of all Epiphyllum fruits i have tried is not very good.  i like hylocereus and opuntia fruits, but not Epipyhllum, for what its worth :)  they do have impressive flowers though.  people breed out new flower types of "Epis" like they do orchids.  Also a gorgeous purple flowered Hylocereus.  no sure how the fruit is on that one, but it would add some cool new color in bloom.

cucuburt has so many good things.  its a fruit, but treated more veggie like, snake gourd.  man they are fun and really tasty.  Children love to play with them, we use them in our classes on plants sometimes to spark interest.  like a slightly different cucumber taste.

lots of melons out there.

well that is promising.  I will aim for fruiting trees at 3m of smaller types and keep bigger types in big pots and just use them for scion stock.

Yes, mango do well here.  We are going to use them to fill in spots because they are one of the hardiest fruit trees for our area.  they handle heat, wind, drought, floods, salt you name it.  Gotta love them.  tipping is something i have been doing better lately, but i am honestly not too educated on how to structure the branches of fruit trees.  What i got from that video is you just want a dense cluster of new branch tips for next years floral bud set and future fruit, right?

Is there  a right or wrong "structure" of branches for things like mango and lychee which grow into big trees and have fruit coming off large inflorescence. more or less similar?  or is the goal more uniform crown shade and many many individual new stems?

I plan on making this a in progress kind of thread and post as i go if thats ok.  so i have more questiosn all teh time.

on the topic of pruning and stem structure, im guessing things like mango, lychee, rambutan etc are similar.  So what about things like jaboticaba, durian and cacao, all fruit which grow from the stem.  for these i assume focusing on a few main solid stems is ideal?  Would there be some kind of formula or logic to how it should be done, or just keep strength and air flow in mind?

I dont want to take over the thread, but could i post pictures of mine to see what species they are?  im confused now.  the green skinned ones are edible and are grown for food here in the mountains.  like fruitlovers said they dont even need pots.  here commercial fields of it are stripped of all leaves and roots and trucked out to be exported.  its really amazing how tough they are.

do you know if the seeds are safe to eat raw?

what defines them, aside from large fruit? miracle fruit seem to be hugely dependent on environmental factors for fruit size. fruits can be small and massive from the same tree.  I always wondered about these species, but no one has pointed me anywhere.  are they in fact truly distinct species?  or just a big fruit?

they can grow in insanely small containers and still grow a respectable size, talking about the green skinned fruit not brown.  until this thread i never new the difference.  i see 4m trees coming out of 12" pots here.  tough plants! i too have not seen plants that are super root bound fruit, but i have seen potted plants fruit.  the wild plants fo the green skinned fruit get up to 30'.  not huge, but not tiny either.

big fan of citrus, lemon especially, and papaya.

Thanks guys.  great resource too!

4.5m!  yikes.  more than i was hoping.  Right off the bat i should say Taiwan has massive lychee plantations too, i live in the middle of it and have family growing it, but i am 100% organic (i don't sell table fruit, i eat it) and here they use a lot of chemicals on their crops.  There are many good developments here for fruit, but rarely do they not involve chemicals so i tend not to adopt them.

so 4.5m is the minimum.  is there anyway i can cut that down to 3m and do small trees like they do with other crops such as mango?  I assume the issue is with pruning them short all the time then?

I think i may start thinking about keeping some stock plants in pots and just keep them closer without worrying about fruit then have a few out in the ground at proper spacing.  biggest thing for me is i need stock plants of many varieties for grafting/propagating.

For the flooded portion, you might consider Jaboticaba.  They love wet conditions, but they are a very, very slow growing tree (can take 10 years to fruit).

you arent kidding.  i bought 4' trees 5 years ago and they still have not given me  a fruit.  i will be planting these for sure.  Any other suggestions for wet loving plants?  i can control how wet the area stays directly by how much i let out.  so it will all be pretty customizable.

After reading it you may want to leave some of the banana plants in place as a windbreak.
good idea.  i just lost a lot of trees at my other farm from a freak storm.  had hail too!  we will be building a 6' chainlink fence around the whole place with concrete base.  a lot of people here use black plastic on said fences for wind break, but i will be leaving bananas as you say and also growing various vines i enjoy along the fence.  will probably be growing lots of different gingers along the fence which wont provide wind break for at least a year when they grow taller.

Here is a basic layout of the new farm, we are also going to live there once house is built.  we will have a well, irrigation ditches and also pipes, so water anywhere is easy to do.  the light shaded grey area is where is going to be raised further to avoid any flooding.  the black area is going to be concrete, so no in ground plants there.

EDIT  I also wanted to ask about cacao.  I have grown it for 5 years, in pots, without issue. My other farm floods badly in summer, sometimes a week under water (-1m), and T. cacao ALWAYS dies in ground there, no matter what i do even putting them on mounds.  The dirt is the same i use in their pots.  So i want to grow lots at the new farm, and am wondering should i place them in the higher half where its drier?  or lower half where its more moist.

Also note, our wet season is May-Oct, dry season can last up to 6 months without a drop of rain, but still always humid and i mulch lots so ground never dries too bad.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: New Patents For Zills Trees
« on: July 03, 2013, 12:23:53 AM »
interesting, i didnt realize there was so much legal stuff involved.  is there somewhere one can look for a list fo patented plants/varieties?

We just bought a new farm, currently its all banana.  I have started making a path through the banana to have cleared.

Our land is basically like a triangle, the base is higher than  the point and the land is divided into 2 parts there, high (=dry) and low (=wet).  dry and wet are relative, the soil wont ever fully dry, but the high part wont flood.  the low part i am going to dig it better so it floods in some spots and not others for different species.  This farm is all about stock plants and variety, but i still ant fruit production happening full scale on them.

Right now i am trying to workout tree planting.  I am planting lots of different species, not lots of 1 species.   

First question is about Lychee.   given its pickiness to light and pruning I am a bit stumped.  they need full light coverage to fruit, so they cant be too close to each other.  they also don't prune well for next years harvest.  or i should say i am still learning.  Ideally i want to pack in many smaller trees rather than fewer monsters.

So my question is, what do you think the minimum spacing for lychee is if one were to try an annual pruning schedule.

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