Author Topic: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?  (Read 650 times)

CTMIAMI

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Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« on: May 14, 2022, 09:41:36 AM »
Seems to me that as the temperatures go up in South Florida it becomes crucial to adapt to maintain a high degree of success. So as the weather warms up, I like to add the bag as an insurance policy.
I do it in avocado:

Depending on the budwood I can cover it with parafilm, leave some leaves or not but bag it. As the transpiration begins I monitor the bar for humidity and make a small venting cut.

In annonas works very well:



I noticed that some of the Annona's start to push only to dry up a few days later. Specially if we get a couple of dry and hot days. I graft then now using buddy tape for the union, parafilm to cover the scion and or Buddy tape (if they arrive that way) and the bag which will remain clean with no humidity until the new growth pushes out and transpiration begins. Small price to pay for success.

Has been working exceptionally well with mangos almost 100%

The question is: How do you adapt so we can all learn for each other.
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

ScottR

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2022, 11:07:19 AM »
Interesting adaption Carlos, when I first started grafting avocado's many years ago now I used your bag method but without parafil in those days. I have experienced just lately on a graft on cherimoya seedling in G.H. that was wraped in parafilm the buds push on one tree only to start to dry up, I'll have to put bag on to see if that helps. I kind of forgot about that bag trick thank for posting. We had a few hot day here in Caif. and way dry!
I forgot to mention that when I first used bag we use to put moist paper towel around graft at bottom of bag for added moister.Might have to adapt to that technique again now that Calif. is so dry!
« Last Edit: May 14, 2022, 11:28:37 AM by ScottR »

elriba

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2022, 11:19:31 AM »
Nice Carlos.
When do you remove the bag from the graft?  I imagine that if you remove it too soon the graft might die back.

CTMIAMI

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2022, 11:31:17 AM »
Every tree type is different.  Annonas after the new growth reaches 1/2 - 3/4  I  open the bag a bit for 24 hours or so. But as soon as the water vapor is seen I cut a little corner to have some venting.
Avocados and mangos several things can happen. They can drop the leaves after about 6-10 days. I remove them and re-close in Avocado after I get an inch or so I cut a bigger hole or open the bag in the bottom and let it vent for a day and then remove. Mangos about the same.
Help to use small orchid clip to secure the bag because it makes it very easy to open and close.
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

Malhar

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2022, 01:23:21 PM »
Great suggestions. I had grafted Crystal guava scions.  Buds popped out of buddy tape but now they are starting to dry out.  Will try your method to see if I can save them.

CTMIAMI

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2022, 06:44:14 PM »
Seems like a good idea So. Cal. humidity is 27%, that is low, we are at 57% today and that is low for us in Florida. The 2 cent bags will buy some insurance.
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

Finca La Isla

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2022, 07:47:09 PM »
I use bags when grafting Mamey, sapodilla, jakfruit, and durian. Iím in a very high humidity area and there is a lot of humidity inside the bags. Itís hard to see inside because of the condensation. Bags come off the durians at 2-3 weeks. The others I take the bags off for an hour or so after about a month then put it back on loosely for another week.
These are all cleft grafts using rubber banding and parafilm except for the durian which has only a grafting clip.
Originally I had the newly grafted trees in their bags in a very shady area but I improved my take by locating them, still under shade cloth, in a brighter area.
Peter

CTMIAMI

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2022, 10:36:24 PM »
So true Peter. Actually, this year I'm placing the grafts in 20,000 Lux from day one.
I have also done the mangos and avocado in 50'000 lux and the process is faster and higher percentage of takes. With these I make a small hole in the bag.  Full sun here is 150,000 Lux.
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

elriba

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2022, 10:59:17 PM »
Carlos, what do you use to measure the amount of light?

CTMIAMI

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Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

spaugh

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2022, 01:53:10 PM »
I never bag annonas and they seem to be able to handle full sun and our dry air.  Its 90-100F and bone dry here often.  Cherimoya seem to be able to ha dle it.  I never shade them or use any kind of bag to hold moisture. 

For avocados, the same weather ruins the grafts and a bag is required to get them started.
Brad Spaugh

CTMIAMI

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2022, 03:47:11 PM »
Brad full sun on the Annona's right after grafting?

Saw weather forecast is going to be over 100 in So. Cal
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

Orkine

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2022, 04:08:44 PM »
Interesting idea Carlos.
I get good takes without bagging but I think I will have to try and go for even better performance.

I have had several annonas push only to dry up and fail.  I have attributed in part to me breaking the union while unwrapping early so as not the girdle the graft and re-wrapping, but it would be nice if it were simply getting the humidity right.

spaugh

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2022, 04:49:57 PM »
Brad full sun on the Annona's right after grafting?

Saw weather forecast is going to be over 100 in So. Cal

Yes they are very tough.  Its extremely hot and dry here but they are able to handle it.  I have a whole field of them that never got any special treatments.  I think you are wasting time with the bags on cherimoyas.  If the grafts are failing theres some other issue.  Like possibly the scion pushed from stored energy and graft was not yet fused.  Timing is important on the annonas.  Best to do it around march or early april.  Then the budwood is in the right state.  Doing them now is a little late and the budwood is more active than you really want.

I leave the tape on the grafts for several months.  Sometimes I will losen it but i like to leave the tape on the graft union for 2-3  months so it gets really well healed and doesnt dry up and make the graft fail. 

Ive been using buddy tape on the scions and flagging tape on the graft unions.  I like the flagging tape because it puts more pressure on the graft and also comes off really easy. 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2022, 05:29:34 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

spaugh

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2022, 05:21:25 PM »
Heres a few pics of trees that were grafted around mid march.  They have never had any bags and have already been through many heat waves and santa ana winds. 











These ones are avocados and had to bag them all or the dry heat will ruin the grafts.










Brad Spaugh

CTMIAMI

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2022, 05:29:26 PM »
Seems like the seedling went straight to the ground and then you top worked the seedling.  Nice bags on the avocados. Where do you get them?
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

spaugh

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2022, 05:57:07 PM »
Those cheimoya seedlings were 2 years old.  I had did about 30 of them last year and had 4 or 5 failures that had to be redone this year.  So those cherimoya rootstocks were larger than I would like to be grafting on but I think they are all successfully top worked now.

I usually start the seedlings in pots and get them started then plant once they have 4 or 5 leaves or more. 

The bags are from Amazon.  They are made for keeping cookies and pastries from drying out.  I got another 100 pack of them already on hand for next years avocado grafts.  Then Im about done planting thank god. 

https://www.amazon.com/BagDream-Bakery-Window-100Pcs-4-5x2-36x9-6/dp/B0725CDSQD?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

These are my avocado seedlings im about to stick these in the ground.  They never get shade or babying.  Ive seen people over babying their avocado trees.  The grafts will need bags for a couple months but thats the only time thry get any kind of protection.


These are my cheri oya seedlings.  I just toss a handful of seeds in a big pot then dump them out and bare root them and stick these either in small pots or in the ground.  They are very tough and dont mind this kind of rough treatment.


« Last Edit: May 15, 2022, 05:59:53 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

seng

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2022, 06:12:48 PM »
I use parafilm to wrap the union and scion.  Then I pick a few big leaves and wrap the scion; otherwise, the parafilm will disintegrate before the scion push out.

Jose Spain

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Re: Do you adapt the grafting style to the season and why?
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2022, 11:55:01 AM »
Very interesting experiences. I use bags for grafting, but so far I only did it for grafting pitayas (a plastic bag plus a paper bag if in direct sunlight). Now I'll give it a try on mangoes, avocados and anonas too.

Maybe another thing worth considering is the type of grafting depending on the season (or weather), I don't know of people switching from scion to bud grafting in subtropical trees, but on Prunus spp it's common to switch whip & tongue/cleft in winter for chip grafting when trees start to push and for other bud grafting types once they are already actively growing. At least here in Spain. It wouldn't be surprising if mangoes/avocados/anonas also showed better rates depending on the method and the season. I wonder if anyone has already done or found some trails on this matter.

 

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