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Breeding annonas with ĎPainterí as pollen parent.

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JoeP450:
Hey Forum,

Wanted to put this out there and see what others may be experiencing, but for two seasons now Iíve been trying to cross Ďpainterí fka Ďcherilataí with other annonas in my collection and Iíve come up completely empty handed when itís used as pollen parent. Iíve tried painter x sugar apple, painter x geffner, painter x el bumpo, painter x dream and nothing sticks when used as pollen. Iíve found painter is receptive to sugar apple pollen and Iíve gotten a few fruits to set as female parent. Has any one else tried these crosses and achieved fruit set as pollen parent?

This is an observation, but it sent me down a rabbit hole and I came across this article : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6378316/#!po=0.925926

Evidently, sometimes Annona hybrids can be naturally occurring Triploid or Tetraploid variants which can have an effect on their ability to reproduce. In this paper it is mentioned that:







So Iím curious if itís possible that ĎPainterí may be a triploid hybrid which would explain why none of the pollen is working 🤷‍♂️ I guess to confirm this would require a flow cytometer to karyotype a leaf sample 🤔.

-Joe

CTMIAMI:
That should be an interesting cross. UF Dr. Jonathan Crane has indicated that the pollen from Thai Lessard sugar apple pollinates all the other sugar apples and atemoyas. I have used it and is very effective. You may want to give it a try to see.

pagnr:
Triploids of many crops are usually seedless ( watermelons, Citrus, banana ).
In that case what is the normal seed count for the fruit of the types you are trying to cross ?
If it normally sets seeds, probably not a triploid ??
Another possibility is different chromosome numbers in the parents you want to cross.
What are the chromosome numbers of the species/varieties you want to cross,
or the chromosome numbers of the original parents of the "Painter' ?
Is Painter itself an unusual or wide cross ?
A quick search said that "Chromosome numbers of Annona are 2n = 14 and 2n = 16, except for A. glabra, which is a tetraploid species (2n = 4x = 28).
That would then be 1n = 7 X 1n= 8 for some crosses, which may never or rarely work.
Have you tried using Painter own pollen to achieve fruit set, to test your technique ?
If you can easily recognise hybrids among the seedlings, mixing pollen may get fruit set and hybridisation.
Mixing pollen is often used to overcome incompatibility in wide crosses in plant breeding.
 

Galatians522:
I think what you are seeing is possibly a combination of two main factors. First, "Painter" likely has low pollen viability because it it a first generation interspecific hybrid. Many interspecific hybrids show low pollen viability. Second, I read a study once which indicated that temperature has a significant influence in annona pollen viability. The gist of it was that Cherimoya pollen viability drops to negligible levels when the temperature rises to a certain point, while sugarapple pollen remains viable at those same temps. My guess is that the combination of those two factors has caused your problem.

pagnr:
"Painter" likely has low pollen viability because it it a first generation interspecific hybrid.

I couldn't find details about this. What are the parent species ?? Thanks.

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