Author Topic: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside  (Read 610 times)

Plantinyum

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I aquired a few quails last month, i am keeping them in my greenhouse. I havent had sprayed the plants in there for like 2-3 months, so i sprayed two consecutive days with fungicide and a pesticide becouse i found some aphids on the plants, there are also some sighns of mites.
The birds i relocated into a cardboard box before the spray, everything is dry inside the gh now, i plan on releasing them back in this evening which will mean that the gh had solid  days after the final spray ,to dry out.
The soil of course got moist from the chemicals and that is what worries me thw most.
Does anyone else that keeps animals/birds in their greenhouses spray their plants from time to time? How do you proceed ,in order to not poison the livestock?
I find that i have to spray at least periodically, in order to not have a pest infestation, which if happens is a nightmare to erradicate, especially mites.
Will i be ok with releasing them back today, or should i wait a bit longer ? I should say that the greenhouse does still have a bit of a smell from the chemicals....

tru

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2022, 09:41:30 AM »
Really it all depends on the formulas of the pesticide/fungicide
which products are you using?

If the fungicide you're using is copper, you're safe to let them out after it has dried; pesticides usually have a lot more choices of chemicals, I'd research the active ingredients.
for instance, pyrethrin is technically toxic but considered 'safe' for birds, but will automatically kill bee species.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2022, 09:44:48 AM by tru »

Plantinyum

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2022, 10:52:50 AM »
Tha fungicide i used is called difcor, it has the active ingredient difenoconazole.
The pesticide is called valmek , it has the active ingredient abamectin. Both are listed as systemic chemicals

tru

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2022, 11:02:29 AM »
difenoconazole will cause liver damage to birds and is toxic to aquatic animals. You should probably throw that out right away, googling the chemical shows that it has caused quite a stir in the food safety world for being approved by the EPA.

abamectin is safe for birds, will kill bees. Only use now, when it is cold out and bees aren't active

Using difcor this one time will probably not result in anything bad happening to the birds, but they warn of the repeated use allows it to accumulate. Not to mention, it seems to be harmful to humans as well...


https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Difenoconazole

« Last Edit: December 19, 2022, 11:06:17 AM by tru »

Plantinyum

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2022, 01:27:39 PM »
Thank you for all this information!! I dont like using such chemicals but sometimes i must. I will research the chemicals i plan on using more in the future , now that i know what to look for, the active ingredient.... even then i will be taking them/the birds out of there and doing a several day quarantine. I wont be using difcor again,  i used it for the first time, will try to find something more environmentally friendly.
Ita s pain that the organic ways are generally not as effective, as the non organic stuff.

Daintree

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2022, 10:02:57 AM »
I have quail and parrots in my greenhouse, so I am super careful what I use out there. For insecticide I use systemics (imidicloprid). My birds don't eat the plants so I don't have to worry.  Sometimes if some plants get spider mites I will spray with pyrethrin, but I try to take the plant outside or in the house. If it is too big I shut the birds in the other section of the greenhouse until it is dry.  For fungal problems I use physan, and once again, I only treat whichever plant is having problems.

I have found that by increasing air circulation A LOT, it almost totally eliminated the need for fungicides.  I patrol for insects every day and try to treat before things get out of hand. I have hundreds of plants, so it takes a while, but it is my relaxation, so...

I also worry about my birds drinking drops of water off the floor that may have fertilizer in it. I use Miracle Grow and feed and water at the same time. I water one section of the greenhouse, then immediately hose it down with plain water.  I have a bark floor so it doesn't take much to wash the fertilizer beyond their reach.  I also dump any standing water out of saucers in case it has fertilizer in it.

Haven't lost any birds to poisoning, and my oldest parrot has been out there for 13 years.  The quail only live 5-8 years anyway so it is harder to tell, but I haven't had any die young.

My grandson and a baby Bourkes parrot


Sorry, the quail won't hold still for pictures!




bussone

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2022, 10:22:59 AM »
difenoconazole will cause liver damage to birds and is toxic to aquatic animals. You should probably throw that out right away, googling the chemical shows that it has caused quite a stir in the food safety world for being approved by the EPA.

abamectin is safe for birds, will kill bees. Only use now, when it is cold out and bees aren't active

Using difcor this one time will probably not result in anything bad happening to the birds, but they warn of the repeated use allows it to accumulate. Not to mention, it seems to be harmful to humans as well...


https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Difenoconazole

As a general rule, you should refrain from ingesting pretty much any fertilizer or -cide. Even things like agricultural chelated iron usually contain too many other contaminants to be considered food-safe (stuff like lead).

Hell, even approved fat-soluble vitamins you need to be careful with.

Plantinyum

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2022, 12:33:46 PM »
I was also wondering about fertilizers and foliar feed in general, quess the principle is the same...

Daintree, thanks for sharing your routine regarding spraying! I also tend to not have alot of fungal issues with the greenhouse plants, i get more insect issues. For the outside plants i have alot of both lol.
My birds also dont care about the plants, they dont eat them, for now. I like the instant ground wash idea, will do that in summer after whatever sprays i do. Its tricky now in winter since i try to avoid too much moisture in the soil.


Tropicaltoba

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2023, 06:43:52 PM »
Birds too! Cool. Iíve had lots of luck with parasitic wasps for aphids. Interestingly they showed up one summer and been able to keep them going for 18 months. I think the trick is to have some sacrificial plants. You can see one of them In the flower they are super small.

What to quails eat, I have some sacrificial plants loaded with hard scale and I wonder if they would pick them off.



« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 06:58:38 PM by Tropicaltoba »

Daintree

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2023, 07:37:14 PM »
My quail only seem interested in things that move. Watching them leap up to grab moths is hilarious.  I have never found anything good for scale except systemics like imidicloprid. Because I don't have bees in there I don't feel bad using it.

Carolyn

Plantinyum

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2023, 01:30:04 AM »
Ive seen parasitic wasps in my yard, infact i think i saw their larvae on 2 occations, 1 time they were parasitazing a caterpillar,  the other time i found a live ground worm that was full of oranje little worms,this may have not been a parasitic wasp, dunno. Their life sicle is badass!
When i have aphid infestations outside, usually a strong poppulation of ladybugs gets established, cant beat ladybug at eating aphids, their larvae are the best thing that can happen to a garden.

To be fair, my plants leaves/canopies in the gh are above the line that the quail can reach, mine seem to nibble at the banana pups,  those juicy big leaves do atract them somehow. Strangely they dont bother one potted surinam cherry that has its branches crawling on the ground, not a single nib on it so they do have preferences lol.
 I also have scale on my citrus there and it doesnt get phased by any insecticide ive tried,nasty stuff. Only thing that works for me ( havent tried imidicloprid ) is removing them manually  and ultimately spraying with a insecticide after that. One of my pomello is clean after this,still need to do the lemon which i badly infested.

Tropicaltoba

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2023, 07:31:00 AM »
I canít get rid of scale and donít understand it. My large red lime and Meyer lemon were completely free for years while others were infested, now this year only they have it. Yeah Iím stuck using hose in summer and spray bottle with soap/rubbing alcohol And a toothbrush in winter. Iím gonna try mass rearing of lacewings next year, scale destroyers donít work at all for me (tired them twice).

Plantinyum

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2023, 09:38:01 AM »
I canít get rid of scale and donít understand it. My large red lime and Meyer lemon were completely free for years while others were infested, now this year only they have it. Yeah Iím stuck using hose in summer and spray bottle with soap/rubbing alcohol And a toothbrush in winter. Iím gonna try mass rearing of lacewings next year, scale destroyers donít work at all for me (tired them twice).


i think i will start to just scrape them off from the leaves occasionally,  without messing with wiping the leaves..eventually the life sicle should be interrupted. It just takes alot of effort and persistance to do it this way..

Daintree

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2023, 10:20:42 AM »
I was totally plagued by both hard scale on my citrus, and soft mealybugs. I have had very good luck with imidicloprid systemic. You just pour it into the soil.  Takes a couple weeks to work, but it has kept my greenhouse "clean" for years. It is toxic to bees, but I have none in my greenhouse.

I know some people worry that it travels to the fruit, but the evidence that I have that it DOESN'T affect the fruit is that imidicloprid does not kill fruit-eating insects such as apple worms.

It won't kill spider mites either, so I still have to keep up with those. But I am happily scale-free, and I don't have to spray anything around that could get on my birds, or that they might ingest.

Carolyn

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2023, 11:13:12 AM »
Are the quails food or pets? Try neem oil because it is not toxic it just smells bad.

Plantinyum

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2023, 01:19:08 PM »
Are the quails food or pets? Try neem oil because it is not toxic it just smells bad.

Does neem work on scale? I ve spraied neem before, my cherimoya plants hated the stuff. If its effective against them i can spray with it, the citrus did not show any sings of damage.

tru

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2023, 01:53:02 PM »
I removed scale successfully without killing my plant by doing this:

get a bucket of water and add a little bit of high strength rubbing alcohol and get a q-tip, find some scale, and test the alcohol strength. if they turn red in 1-2 seconds, its probably strong enough. just keep testing back and forth back and forth until they die really quickly, but not immediate (because that means its too strong and will probably hurt the plant too)

then douse a papertowel in it and coat every single surface above and below, extremely thoroughly. I find that just spraying can leave gaps sometimes whereas wiping you can really get into the crevices of new growth. Then spray off with water

Took me like 40 minutes for a <2 foot tall plant, but it did seem to work
« Last Edit: January 29, 2023, 01:56:05 PM by tru »

Plantinyum

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Re: Spraying greenhouse plants with pesticides when having burds inside
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2023, 03:40:07 PM »
I removed scale successfully without killing my plant by doing this:

get a bucket of water and add a little bit of high strength rubbing alcohol and get a q-tip, find some scale, and test the alcohol strength. if they turn red in 1-2 seconds, its probably strong enough. just keep testing back and forth back and forth until they die really quickly, but not immediate (because that means its too strong and will probably hurt the plant too)

then douse a papertowel in it and coat every single surface above and below, extremely thoroughly. I find that just spraying can leave gaps sometimes whereas wiping you can really get into the crevices of new growth. Then spray off with water

Took me like 40 minutes for a <2 foot tall plant, but it did seem to work
interesting technique! I can see it being alot usefull for the nymphs or whatever their babies are called, like the big ones i could just scrape off but the alcohol will also kill the very small ones.

 

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