Sumo seedling

[Seanny]

I ate a Sumo last spring.
I planted some seeds.
One is flowering.

[vnomonee]

What is the plant behind it with the serrated leaves? 

[brian]

I have yet to find a single seed in my shiramui/sumo/dekopan fruits.  You are lucky

[EricSC]

I ate a Sumo last spring.
I planted some seeds.
One is flowering.

That is really fast.  Usually, it takes several years to flower.

[Seanny]

What is the plant behind it with the serrated leaves?

Mickey Mouse plant.

[Seanny]

I have yet to find a single seed in my shiramui/sumo/dekopan fruits.  You are lucky

I have a big Navel Orange tree, a big pomelo tree, a few small tangerine trees, and a multi-graft lime and lemon tree in my yard.
Some Sumo fruits have seeds.
Some are seedless.
My kids like seedless fruits.
I can’t be out in the yard chasing the bees away.

If I bag the flowers, would the flowers self pollinate?

[caladri]

I have yet to find a single seed in my shiramui/sumo/dekopan fruits.  You are lucky

I bought probably 50+ without success, and then had a run of 1-2 seeds, culminating in one fruit with 12 seeds! More seeds in off-brand dekopon than AC Foods' Sumo Citrus, not sure if because of selection pressure in their budline, or different citricultural practices resulting in cross-pollination. All my germinating dekopon seeds seem to be monoembryonic.

[vnomonee]

I found one in a lot of 3 fruits, it's growing now ~6 months ,but I want to graft it to something else to give it a boost

[David Kipps]

I have yet to find a single seed in my shiramui/sumo/dekopan fruits.  You are lucky

I bought probably 50+ without success, and then had a run of 1-2 seeds, culminating in one fruit with 12 seeds! More seeds in off-brand dekopon than AC Foods' Sumo Citrus, not sure if because of selection pressure in their budline, or different citricultural practices resulting in cross-pollination. All my germinating dekopon seeds seem to be monoembryonic.

  Are they large enough to see if any variation among them?

[caladri]

Are they large enough to see if any variation among them?

Not yet, really, and I've had a low germination rate; my previous seeds from when I was getting 1-2 either didn't germinate or really impressively failed to thrive: my best one got an inch high and stayed that way before suddenly dying after 2 years. I've got 5 going right now which seem viable, so we'll see over the next few months. (I have several hundred other citrus growing from seed, so I don't think it's entirely a matter of my incompetence thus far, but it could be.)

[sc4001992]

David, what significance is there if one seedling had some variation from the group?

[David Kipps]

David, what significance is there if one seedling had some variation from the group?

We often assume that monoembryonic seed are zygotic, but seeing variation helps to confirm that.  If you're doing breeding, that is what you want.  If you want a copy of the mother tree, you would prefer nucellar seedlings, which would be clones and rather uniform.  One seed producing four seedlings will have at least 3 clones, and likely all 4 will be.

[sc4001992]

.

[brian]

ok, so I did plant hundreds of my Flying Dragon seeds. So if I see the poly seeds germinate, then they are not the zygotic (parent clones)? These poly seedlings would be the cross pollinated seeds and can be a hybrid seedling correct?

If they don't have curvy thorns they must be zygotes, right?  Should be really easy to tell with Flying Dragon.  I think they produce a significant number of non-clones... 30-50%?  I always have some when  I start FD seeds

[sc4001992]

.

[David Kipps]

ok, so I did plant hundreds of my Flying Dragon seeds. So if I see the poly seeds germinate, then they are not the zygotic (parent clones)? These poly seedlings would be the cross pollinated seeds and can be a hybrid seedling correct?

The poly seeds have mostly clones, not zygotic, and not cross pollinated, and not hybrid seedlings.  The mono seeds have the greater chance of being hybrids from cross pollination or some recombination if self pollenated.  But as with a lot of biological systems, it's a matter of probability, not 100% black or white.

[Millet]

Brian is exactly correct.  Flying Dragon as a cultivar always has zigzag stems and strongly curved thorns, it is an easy way without a DNA test of selecting predominantly true clonal Flying Dragon seedlings.  Discard those witch are obviously and definitely genetically different.  The more or less straight steamed & straight throne are not Flying Dragon.  One more comment about Flying Dragon. Trees growing on Flying Dragon root stock produce higher quality fruit because it is a slower garroting rootstock.

[David Kipps]

Brian is exactly correct.  Flying Dragon as a cultivar always has zigzag stems and strongly curved thorns, it is an easy way without a DNA test of selecting predominantly true clonal Flying Dragon seedlings.  Discard those witch are obviously and definitely genetically different.  The more or less straight steamed & straight throne are not Flying Dragon.  One more comment about Flying Dragon. Trees growing on Flying Dragon root stock produce higher quality fruit because it is a slower garroting rootstock.

Could you explain what "slower garroting rootstock" means?

[pagnr]

ok, so I did plant hundreds of my Flying Dragon seeds. So if I see the poly seeds germinate, then they are not the zygotic (parent clones)? These poly seedlings would be the cross pollinated seeds and can be a hybrid seedling correct?

The poly seeds have mostly clones, not zygotic, and not cross pollinated, and not hybrid seedlings.  The mono seeds have the greater chance of being hybrids from cross pollination or some recombination if self pollenated.  But as with a lot of biological systems, it's a matter of probability, not 100% black or white.

I don't think you will find actual cross pollinated hybrids under normal or most circumstances. If so they would not be Poncirus, they would be Citranges, Citrumelos, etc and most of these are distinctly different to Poncirus. Cox hybrid is a little closer to looking like Poncirus as early seedlings, but it is not deciduous.
Off type Flying Dragon are clearly Poncirus, and also often quite interesting in their variation.

[brian]

Brian is exactly correct.  Flying Dragon as a cultivar always has zigzag stems and strongly curved thorns, it is an easy way without a DNA test of selecting predominantly true clonal Flying Dragon seedlings.  Discard those witch are obviously and definitely genetically different.  The more or less straight steamed & straight throne are not Flying Dragon.  One more comment about Flying Dragon. Trees growing on Flying Dragon root stock produce higher quality fruit because it is a slower garroting rootstock.

Could you explain what "slower garroting rootstock" means?

I assume Millet meant slower growing rootstock.  I think the best explanation to this is based on the contrast - fast growing vigorous rootstocks such as lemon are noted to produce poor, watery fruit.  I am not sure *why* slower growing rootstock might produce better fruit but I have seen various charts indicating that trifoliate orange rootstocks such as Flying Dragon produces high quality fruit compared to fast growing rootstocks.

[sc4001992]

I have a yuzu and lisbon lemon grafted on my large Flying Dragon rootstock. I don't see/taste any big difference in the two fruits from my other trees with the same varieties grafted. Only big difference I see is the yuzu on the Flying Dragon grows so slow, in 20+ yrs the Yuzu grafted branch is only 3 ft long with some branches.

pagnr, why do you think I would not find many cross-pollinated hybrids in my seedling Flying Dragon?
I counted/separated the seedlings, and most are mono embryonic so these should be more likely to be a hybrid.

[pagnr]

pagnr, why do you think I would not find many cross-pollinated hybrids in my seedling Flying Dragon?
I counted/separated the seedlings, and most are mono embryonic so these should be more likely to be a hybrid.

They would not need to be hybrid in the sense of being cross pollinated to another type of Citrus.
They could be self pollinated variants, from genetically variable pollen and ovum, or re shuffled recombinants.
It wouldn't be impossible to get Poncirus X Citrus Hybrids, but it doesn't seem to happen much spontaneously.
Do any look that far different from Poncirus ?

[sc4001992]

Ok, got it.

[sc4001992]

ok, this is off topic so I wil not continue to post more photos here, this is for sumo seedling. So go to my other post I started and I will show you some of the seedlings of FD.

[pagnr]

ok, this is off topic so I wil not continue to post more photos here, this is for sumo seedling. So go to my other post I started and I will show you some of the seedlings of FD.

I found the pics by searching your posts, but I can't find the post.
I am not seeing any major differences in your FD seedlings, just normal variation, none look like a Poncirus X Citrus hybrid.
Off type FD are interesting if you find them.