Not enough Durian Discussion

[Finca La Isla]

Interesting Arvind.  What is your distribution like?
I think that ideal here is 2500mm with two short dry seasons in March and September.  And we get something like that sometimes.  The ground doesn’t completely dry out but dry enough to induce flowering for two harvests a year!
When it is prolonged dry with lots of sun the temperature goes up to about 33-34C.  A friend to the north in Guatemala got overly dry weather this year with temps to 40.  They lost the durian fruit set and some established trees even died.

We are just starting to get some early durian drop this past week, so pretty exciting.  This, right now, is from some very early flowering and we’re expecting our peak harvest of durian and mangosteen in September.
Peter

[Mike T]

If Thailand has around 200 or more named varieties, monthong and chanee would be 70% of what is cultivated and gaan yeow would be the next most popular.  The name means long stem. The next most planted is kradum tong and all 4 of these seem to have many variations and I am guessing due to seedling trees that retain the name. The top 3 are good by any measure, but try a gumpun or luang and figure why these great varieties are not planted extensively.

[Finca La Isla]

I think that if it was up to people like us then we would be always looking for new varieties to plant.  I think that it is the buyers that don’t want the complication of lots of varieties so the producers plant what’s known and easiest to sell.
On a small scale it makes sense to have new varieties to share with clients who appreciate diversity so that’s our focus.  But I don’t know how many varieties of durian a packing house wants to buy.  Maybe only one…
Peter

[Mike T]

Musang king and blackthorn are fashionable atm and I remember 10 years ago getting a seed to grow of a long laplae which is the most glamorous of all. This week I'll pick up some fresh long laplae flown in from Thailand. What are the chances of getting another seed of a seedless variety?

[Acacia]

Mike they are flying laplae durian into Cairns? I thought it would just be monthong. Laplae should have some hardiness qualities we want in durian being that is grown pretty far north?

[BigIslandGrower]

Musang king and blackthorn are fashionable atm and I remember 10 years ago getting a seed to grow of a long laplae which is the most glamorous of all. This week I'll pick up some fresh long laplae flown in from Thailand. What are the chances of getting another seed of a seedless variety?

What's the price on that durian?   Here's a write up from Lindsay that mentions this variety.  https://www.yearofthedurian.com/2021/07/lablae-durian-market-hunt-for-famous-varieties.html

[happyhana]

Fun to try different brands. The arroy-d one used to be very good but then it became hit or miss, they used to be $7-8 per packet in chinatown, now probably $20

Monthong close, the owner already has buyers lined at $10/lb 

Really great looking fruit!

What highs are you getting at leeward 1200’?

Does Monthong ripen properly and evenly at that elevation?

This gives me hope for my windward 800’ trees.

[BigIslandGrower]

Fun to try different brands. The arroy-d one used to be very good but then it became hit or miss, they used to be $7-8 per packet in chinatown, now probably $20

Monthong close, the owner already has buyers lined at $10/lb 

Really great looking fruit!

What highs are you getting at leeward 1200’?

Does Monthong ripen properly and evenly at that elevation?

This gives me hope for my windward 800’ trees.

You should definitely get something at 800'.   I'm at 700.

[Acacia]

What are the temperatures differences in hawaii at 800, 1000, 1200 feet?

[cassowary]

Musang king and blackthorn are fashionable atm and I remember 10 years ago getting a seed to grow of a long laplae which is the most glamorous of all. This week I'll pick up some fresh long laplae flown in from Thailand. What are the chances of getting another seed of a seedless variety?

Hey Mike,
Where do you order the Fresh Thai Durian? and how much is it?
If it's not frozen then is it irradiated? Or do they just fly em in and hope it does not bring any new bugs???

[fruit nerd]

Musang king and blackthorn are fashionable atm and I remember 10 years ago getting a seed to grow of a long laplae which is the most glamorous of all. This week I'll pick up some fresh long laplae flown in from Thailand. What are the chances of getting another seed of a seedless variety?

Hey Mike,
Where do you order the Fresh Thai Durian? and how much is it?
If it's not frozen then is it irradiated? Or do they just fly em in and hope it does not bring any new bugs???

There's fresh Thai monthong on Facebook market place. Fresh musang king and blackthorn from Malaysia is not irradiated I believe.

[cassowary]

Is it whole fruit or only the arils?

[fruit nerd]

Is it whole fruit or only the arils?

Just the arils. I don't think they can bring the whole fresh unfrozen fruits in and it'd probably be very expensive if they could.

[0hip]

thorny fruit co in sydney has starting bringing in fresh durians from Malaysia recently. they are quite expansive though and have to pick up locally

[cassowary]

Ohh yeah true it’s only arils. We bought a pack of “fresh” Monthong, it was awfull!

Fresh;
(of food) recently made or obtained; not canned, frozen, or otherwise preserved.

It felt like the fruit aril was old, it had the consistency of what I could imagine slowcooked rubber tyre would have.

I doubt this import will harm the real “fresh” durian domestic market.
But seams like Au federal Gov is increasing imports, recently saw an article saying they are proposing to allow Mexican Lime import.

Thorny fruit co, didn’t they give up a few years back??
I had a look at their website a few weeks ago and it looked like no new updates, maybe i missed..
I know of one grower who didn’t get paid for the fruit he sent to thorny fruit co. So I would be cautious sending fruit to them. The grower said the fruit he sent was good, i have bought much fruit from this grower and he is honest, never sold me shit.

[Gone tropo]

Cassowary I would personally like to see the import of fresh durian from malyasia and thailand increase 10,000 fold.  The durian industry in Australia is a racket, people think it is normal to pay $25-40kg for what would be "kampung" durian in Malaysia what a joke they would have the hardest laugh at us from over there.  Those who are selling fresh durian in Australia who currently have a stranglehold on the market are able to charge what they want, they will cry poor if fresh imports start flooding in about how the aussie consumer wont support local farmers.  Maybe if they didn't rip people off.

Musang king trees selling here recently for first time for between $1000-1500 AU per plant depending on size what a joke and there are buyers who are buying them and think its ok !!!!!! what a dire desperate situation the Australia "durian industry/racket" is.  Even common red prawn and monthong grafted trees now selling for minimum $175 and people think thats normal and ok!!!!! Luckily i have moved to planting seedlings only and have a long memory of all the people currently taking advantage of others.

[TropicalFruitHunters]

Nobody grows the older, and yes, even better varieties here in Thailand.  They may have some trees, but any big farm has one goal in mind...the China market.  And that means monthong.  There are new farms created everyday trying to get in on this madness.  Farmers don't even have to pick their own fruit.  These outfits come right in, grade and pick at same time, load up, pay you on the spot and then they are gone.  Lesser grades are then taken to the local markets.  My friend, the American durian farmer here, said all kinds of trees are being torn out to plant monthong.  If anyone can afford to expand or purchase new land for planting, they are doing so.  Anyone growing these other wonderful varieties are going to be treasures like Lindsay regularly finds and visits.

[cassowary]

Tropo, You can get grafted monthong and other durian varieties at the fruit nursery in Mareeba for 85$ last i had a look.
And locally in FNQ i never have to pay more then 20$/ kg for premium whole durian, as good as any durian in malaysia or Indonesia, most of the time it’s 15$/kg. But yeah in big cities it’s way more!

Price here is not as low as in Malaysia or Indonesia simply because of the currency value and financial institutions. If you compare salary and food cost it’s a better comparison because people earn different in malaysia or indonesia.

Just because someone markets something for 1500$ it does not mean that is the going market price.
there will be buyers who pay more then what goods are worth, but worth is subjective.
Even if one would pay 1500$ for one musang king tree, it would only take the work of making 15 new grafted trees at 100$ each to break even.

 It would be good to do some calculations on where the durian price have to be at in order to break even with durian before you go on calling the industry a racket.
Add up all the costs (labour, land, insurance, compliance, fertilisers, soil ammendments, transport, marketing, fuel, mechanics, picking etc) and then see what price per kg is break even.
in Indonesia, Thailand and  Malaysia cost of labour is very low and there aren’t much legislation one have to follow as an employeer to keep workers and environment safe.


TFH, Is that TM Durian farmer on youtube you mentioned? He got some good videos. His labour costs are ridiculously low compared to here.
I can’t see Australia ever being able to compete in the chinese market, maybe for some fancy varieties.

Peace

[TropicalFruitHunters]

cassowary...yeah...TM Durian Farmer.  Unfortunately, I believe the overall market for China could care less for fancy varieties. 

[Finca La Isla]

Jay, in all these farms dedicated to Mongthong do they plant any other varieties for better cross pollination?  I believe that in Malaysia where musang king is the export durian they mix in other varieties for this purpose.
Peter

[Gone tropo]

Cassowary we will have to agree to disagree. I never once saw durian for $15 or $20kg last season always minimum $25 at local market and local road side market
Nth of Mossman.

Also very aware of trees from Mareeba myself and at least two others have purchased these trees (I know where they come from and who grafts them) unfortunately near all our trees from
This source have either died or remained stunted !!!!

All other grafted trees from sources I know are now $175 a tree minimum. Your experience may be different you may know different people to me. Hell if you can get durian for $15-20kg help a brother out and let me know where ?

[TropicalFruitHunters]

Peter...I am not aware of this nor have I heard any mention of this practice.  I did not think cross pollination was necessary.  Terry...TM Durian Farmer, plants all monthong now.  He does have a few of the others at first wanting to diversify but finding all but one or two did not grow well in his area.  So he was replacing most of those.  I do not believe he had any thoughts of cross pollination for these though...at least that was never mentioned in our conversations/concerns.  His newest plantings are all monthong.  If there are ganyao, chanee, or others available during the pickings, they would most likely go as well if they met the grade, but I don't believe the buyers care what other varieties are included amongnst the monthong.

[TropicalFruitHunters]

Peter...I chatted with Terry and he said that he did plant kratom thong durian to supposedly help with pollination...saying he was told this was the best variety for this purpose.  He also said that given how easily durian can pollinate themselves, he wasn't confident that the kratom thong was actually much benefit.  He didn't say the percentage to monthong were planted.  I understand that cross pollination can help increase production.  However, it's said that durian are self-incompatible yet in another sentence say that a solitary tree will produce fruit.

[Finca La Isla]

Hi Jay, so I know that Kratom is self fertile and is regarded as a good pollinator. It also comes early. Some time ago I was hearing that durian was self infertile but it depends. With cross pollination you get better production of musang king they say. In Malaysia a lot of hand pollinating is done and is a reason to keep trees from growing more than about 24’.
I plant a lot of different durians as my model is to sell locally. Of Thai durians we now have in production mongthong, kratom, Nokachip. Chanee flowered but didn’t stick although I ate a chanee from a neighbors farm a couple of weeks ago.
Peter

[LangsatFL]

Does anyone know how I can correct whatever deficiency these Durian seedlings have?  The leaves turn yellow, get progressively smaller, and start to grow in a wavy manner.  Eventually, they start getting die back.  I have this same condition happening on other Durian seedlings.