thanks Robert, those trees look like missing something. that could be minerals, microbes in soil, etc. may be you need to look to switch your fert. also, overwintering could be another thing to look at. I have a mango tree I got from HD, its grafted on manila that has grown 12" in 3 years. soil mostly stays moist there, gets good sun, I fertilize well, but it just looks like crap with no growth. it did produce few mangoes last year, but rootstock is less than 3/4" it being a 4-yr old.