The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: pagnr on January 10, 2023, 03:09:21 AM
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Giant Corpse Flower blooming in Adelaide Botanic Gardens. Part of a conservation project to help recovery of this now endangered species.
https://www.botanicgardens.sa.gov.au/whats-on/corpse-flower-bloom
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-09/sa-corpse-flower-in-bloom-at-adelaide-botanic-gardens/101837008
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To me it seams like the “conservation” pitch is just some strange justification for collectomania, they should just be honest and say they just wanted the plant and they got seeds from indonesia which would be better kept in indonesia so that it can be release out in the wild to propagate itself!
They need visitors and and the Titan will bring visitors.
Nothing wrong with collectomania and biophillia but it seams these days honesty is not prioritised and even bellow marketing in value.
If they are sincere IMO they should send them all up to FNQ or Darwin so that it can be introduced into a proper habitat here or send them back to indonesia as full grown plants for introduction into the wild. Or atleast distribute seeds to botanical gardens and private arboretums where it would survive outside.
Species can’t be kept from extinction inside a glasshouse.
I feel it’s crap to call the Titan a corpse flower, there’s other flowers from indonesia that are better for the name because they even look like something rotting on The ground.
This is the one and only Titan!! Respect.
True conservation will only happen when we get back to living in harmony with natural order and reason. We can’t create Noahs arks here and there and have monoceop cattle pasture and corn all around! And think we are svaing our natural heritiage.
It all have to be conservation by cultivation, it has to be through agroforesty systems with small glades of annual crops like in the milpa cycle etc. conservation separated from food cultivation will always fail because we will always keep cutting down the bush if it not feeding us. Mixing makes sense.
The revegetation projects up here with only non usefull plants to humans will end up in failiure eventually cause it will be sold of and cut down for cultivation or housing. The revegetation project company own the land privately so you never know what’s gonna happen to it and even if it was state owned it could be sold and slashed.
Setting up a ecosystem that benefits man and wildlife will last, wildlife don’t care if a plant is on some lawyers list of “native plants“ or not they use it if it’s suitable and feeds them.
There are man made ecosystems such as food forests etc where families co excist with wildlife. And even benefit wildlife while also growing all their staple food and excess.
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Giant Corpse Flower blooming in Adelaide Botanic Gardens. Part of a conservation project to help recovery of this now endangered species.
https://www.botanicgardens.sa.gov.au/whats-on/corpse-flower-bloom
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-09/sa-corpse-flower-in-bloom-at-adelaide-botanic-gardens/101837008
That is neat that they were able to grow it from a leaf cutting. Learning how to propagate rare plants definitely helps conservation efforts. The related Voodoo Lilly that I was gifted over 20 years ago continues to come back and produce offspring here in Florida.
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To me it seams like the “conservation” pitch is just some strange justification for collectomania, they should just be honest and say they just wanted the plant and they got seeds from indonesia which would be better kept in indonesia so that it can be release out in the wild to propagate itself!
They need visitors and and the Titan will bring visitors.
Nothing wrong with collectomania and biophillia but it seams these days honesty is not prioritised and even bellow marketing in value.
If they are sincere IMO they should send them all up to FNQ or Darwin so that it can be introduced into a proper habitat here or send them back to indonesia as full grown plants for introduction into the wild. Or atleast distribute seeds to botanical gardens and private arboretums where it would survive outside.
Species can’t be kept from extinction inside a glasshouse.
I think you're missing the point of these type of exhibitions. A significant part of the conservation effort is public awareness and fundraising. Without public awareness, there is very little initiative by people to invest into conservation efforts. Viewing the grand Titan in all its glory could inspire someone, perhaps a rich benefactor, who will purchase and conserve the land, preventing monoculture and destruction of habitat. Yes, its a nice badge for this botanical society to say they have this rare plant/flower, but scientific efforts on propagation and fundraising through awareness will do far more than simply spreading its seeds to be grown in a habit that is severely threatened and likely mowed down for the next palm oil plantation.
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Not sure if it mentioned in the articles, but on radio here it was mentioned that habitat loss is the main problem due to land clearing, forestry, oil palms.
Also it is not popular with locals in its habitat as it is subject to superstition and believed to eat people.
I can see both sides of the arguments for and against put below.
Plants grown in research could generate a vast number of seeds etc. for reintroduction.
I sometimes wonder about some endangered animal species in Zoos, and if it is that necessary to move them as far as Australia for conservation ??
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The destruction caused by industrial agriculture's insatiable appetite for beef production is nothing short of catastrophic. While the support of wealthy benefactors can certainly make a positive impact, it is not a sustainable solution to the challenges posed. I don't think anyone really has a problem with this type of conservation effort, it's just a bit like trying to fight a forest fire with a garden hose.
Nearly 60% of the world's agricultural land is used for beef production, yet beef accounts for less than 2% of the calories that are consumed throughout the world. So the point remains, what's the point of creating vast numbers of seeds through research projects if we have no where to plant them.
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The destruction caused by industrial agriculture's insatiable appetite for beef production is nothing short of catastrophic. While the support of wealthy benefactors can certainly make a positive impact, it is not a sustainable solution to the challenges posed. I don't think anyone really has a problem with this type of conservation effort, it's just a bit like trying to fight a forest fire with a garden hose.
Nearly 60% of the world's agricultural land is used for beef production, yet beef accounts for less than 2% of the calories that are consumed throughout the world. So the point remains, what's the point of creating vast numbers of seeds through research projects if we have no where to plant them.
Its interesting that you mention beef production as a problem to sustainability. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but here in Florida the largest portion of natural habitats in pristine condition are on ranches. My county produces more cattle than any other county except Okeechobee. The large ranchers here are very proud of their native areas and of the wildlife that they support. I know it sounds funny, but when you talk to them about their ranches they pull up pictures of the wild life to show you--not the cattle. Because of what I do for work, I have the opportunity to look at every property in the county. What I have noticed it that the ranches keep their natural areas (which make up from 20%-50% of the average ranch) in far better condition than the state and federal lands. They hire people to remove the invasives like cogon grass, smut grass, brazilian pepper, and climbing fern that choke out the native habitat. Cattle provide them with the resources to do that. By comparison, the state mostly lets the exotics run wild--through no fault of their own, but mostly due to a lack of funding to do anything different. Politicians are all in to put up money to buy conservation land--but few want to fund its care and maintenance over the long haul. I am not asking you to totally denounce your perspective. I am respectfully asking that you just consider what I have said and to keep your eyes open as you travel the state.
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Hi everybody! I'm new here, but I decided to first post here as I actually have this plant! Well, the species, not the particular clone being discussed.
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Wow plantperson. Any more info on how it grows there ?
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It's really easy... like PDN says, the hard part is maintaining conditions... For me it's like a philodendron, just give water when 1/2 to 1in of the upper soil is dry. I use a 50/50 mix of orchid bark and normal peat moss based potting soil... Not sure if I can say the brand name, but it's the really common one in the yellow bag... same brand for the orchid bark. I use normal tap water, although you may need to use purified depending on your quality. I very occasionally use some leftover fertilizer on it... I usually dilute it a bit further than the instructions.
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I’m also growing this. The hardest part I foresee in growing this long term outside a botanical garden is the height of the plant. The vegetative leaf stage gets over 10+ feet. Mine is already coming close to the basement ceiling lol
(https://i.postimg.cc/rD0RpqZZ/5-CEF2-BFB-7-BC1-4-DBE-B7-A2-8711-E3591-D37.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rD0RpqZZ)
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Plantperson and Nick,
Would you be open to sell or barter seeds when available?
I am sure it would naturalize inside our fruit forest :D
SHV.
I get it and agree that fundraising could help if directed correctly.
It's a similar situation with orchids in Ecuador, poachers raid the wilderness for plant exhibitions and botanical gardens. One local where quite angry with what was goin on in Mindo when I where there. So having these exhibitions and raising the Wow factor of a plant also increases demand significantly which will definitely reduce the local population as poachers go through. IMO the only way to avoid this is to never boast about the plant or spread it around a lot to reduce financial incentive and rarity factor.
Conservation land will not stay conserved forever If populations keep growing.
And governments use national parks (lines on a map) as national debt collateral. It's finances and big donors have similar motives or special trust documents for long-term property holding. IMO we can't depend on others to save our natural heritage, we all have to interact with nature in order to feel why it's worth to not destroy it in our strive for resource maximization.
I agree that botanical gardens usually have great capacities to multiply plants but I just don't see them sharing it here in Australia, I know they prune and garden a lot so they could definitely have days where people could come and take cuttings or seeds without damage to the garden from their actual garden scraps. It's not setup for sharing or conservation more for collectomania, tourism and enjoyment IMO.
I have given rare plants to Cairns botanic garden in an attempt to increase the number of those tree's in Australia. And hopefully someone will get to eat the fruit and pocket the seed in the future :D
Galatians,
I agree with you that real people (ranchers) usually do a better and efficient job then gov when compared.
IMO the issue is not who own's the land, it's the hoarding of the property that is the issue. I am sure that many people in the city would like to have a weekend "datcha" or small plot where they cultivate edibles and also leave some natural tree's shurbs etc. This is crowdfunding with human energy which benefits humans and wild plants and can go on infinitum. My reason tells me that the government is opposed to this since it gives people a way to be less dependent on them. Gov and aristocratic land holdings creates false land scarcity.
And a lot of the time up here, invasive species comes in after a cattle rancher have "improved" the lot by select cutting of tree's because cows don't eat tree's. The most invasive species we humans spread are grasses (guine, gamba, brachia) and that is from the cattle industry to begin with.
Those are invasive species and every cattle farmer "should" have to get rid of them, well why should a friend of mine have to remove a weed declared by the cattle industry (Parthenium) when they cultivate weeds declared by horticulturalists (gamba, guine, branchia). My friend don't have an issue with Parthenium so no financial loss for him. But he have to work a lot to keep the invasive grass down!
Why aren't government agencies knocking on the ranchers door to ask him to eradicate the invasive grass like they do with my friend??
And the biodiversity is very low in pastures, natural savannas of Africa have the highest mammal biomass of any ecosystem, but necessarily not high plant diversity, and no way near that of a forest. What happened to the cedars or Iran??
I prioritize plant diversity over mammal biomass.
And if you grew high energy crops for humans on the ranch you could increase the "conservation" area 10 fold since your not loosing energy converting grass or grain to flesh.
In the end I am happy to see a Tian in some ones basement :D Humans are amazing!
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Cassowary,
I really appreciate your thoughts. Thank you for sharing. This discussion has encouraged me to read more about the "Titan." Apparently, there are only about 1,000 known specimens in the world! What makes it so rare is that it only grows in rainforest clearings on limestone soil in a specific part of Indonesia. Thus, traditional "set and forget" conservation does little to promote its growth. This is not unusual. The rare plants that we have here in Florida also grow in the "transition zones." These transition zones are the narow strip of land where one ecosystem melds into another. They contain the highest bio diversity of any habitat hands down--both plant and animal. Maximizing the transition zones is what we need to do to encourage biodiversity. Properly managed cattle systems are one way to achieve this. Don't just take my word for it, though. Here is what the Archibold Biological research station (one of the largest private conservation and research organizations in the state) has to say.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://buckislandranch.org/our-story/&ved=2ahUKEwjNroOKl8f8AhW3sYQIHbHfAp0QjBB6BAgTEAk&usg=AOvVaw1IyO3MKltESoTs1dtKWXIc
With regards to nutrient productuon density, a large percentage of the land used for cattle in this part of the state cannot be used as cropland without significant alteration to the existing ecosystem. Specifically, alterations to natural water flow and retention would be needed. Cattle meld into this ecosystem without alteration.
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Cassowary,
I don't know if I'll secure pollen, have the plant alive etc., but I am currently planning on trying to create a cold-hardy hybrid... However, cuttings may be an option.