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Messages - Florian

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I am amazed by the size of the Citrumelos! I've only ever seen/grown some half that size.

Also, there is a Sacaton citrumelo here in Switzerland that looks and tastes nothing like the one in your video. Fruits are rather small (many weigh less than 100g) and the Poncirus flavour is strong:

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus garden at 48.5N
« on: November 25, 2023, 03:20:42 PM »
Thanks for the pics, Ilya! Is Ichangstar 60 your earliest maturing hybrid creation?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: IchangensisXSinensis from B.Voss
« on: November 22, 2023, 01:50:55 PM »
Excellent pictures, Ilya. That is exactly what a hybrid ichangensis x sinensis should look like in my opinion. I am also convinced that the commonly available ichangensis x sinensis is just an orange.

How coldhardy is the Voss plant?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu x Poncirus
« on: November 16, 2023, 02:03:18 PM »
Just so there is no confusion. It is not me who has the Yuzu x Poncirus but flos from Germany :). Of course, his name is Florian too.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichang Papada Kaviar
« on: November 13, 2023, 08:10:34 AM »
Thank you for your reply, Florian. I have also asked Mikkel via email. The taste of his Ichang Papeda is also not bitter, the peel, however, tastes better than yours. There seem to be some variants of Ichang Papeda.

What I cannot exactly see on your fotos is what form the juice vesicles. The juice vesicles of my plant are more seperate from each other. But it seems to me that they have also the form of perls on your foto. Is that right?

It is kind of hard to tell the form of the juice vesicles because as soon as I scoop out the pulp it turns into a mush. They certainly aren't round, maybe oval/elongated.

Btw., when I tasted the rind at Eisenhut nursery it was sweet (!). Until this day I don't know why and my plant has never had sweet rind. It was at the end of december and the fruit was very soft, overripe. Maybe, I'll just have to wait longer before I taste it..

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichang Papada Kaviar
« on: November 11, 2023, 02:58:03 PM »
My Citrus ichangensis IVIA does not have juice pearls/caviar like finger limes. However, the pulp is kind of mushy. One can scoop it out with a spoon very easily. My N1Tri is very similar in this respect.

The smaller fruits are often seedless while the bigger ones are riddled with seeds. I have counted up to 40 seeds in one fruit. The pulp/juice is just sour, I don't notice bitterness. However, my taste buds aren't great. Maybe there is a slight bitterness, I wouldn't know.

The peel, however, has a horrible aftertaste, much worse than anything I have ever tasted. The first few seconds, it is not there and then it hits the back of your palate. I am very bad at describing flavours. It kind of tastes like kerosene mixed with soap and lingers for quite a long time.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Earliest ripening citrus
« on: September 28, 2023, 04:24:49 PM »
Thank you, Jim, for the detailed and comprehensible explanation. That makes sense to me.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Earliest ripening citrus
« on: September 27, 2023, 08:44:51 AM »
Reading this forum, I always had the impression that Xie Shan was among the very earliest of Satsumas. Is that not the case or is it just with Jim?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Fast flowering trifoliate graft
« on: June 19, 2023, 02:41:53 PM »
Do they bloom as quickly in Paris as in the south?
I have never had a flowering plant. Neither as a seedling nor as a graft.

Mine did not bloom after one but most after two years. No fruit, however. Never grew much. I have just grafted one on standard Poncirus and it made an underdeveloped flower like the one Victor showed.

For what it's worth: my Citrangeremo has just survived its first winter with about -8 to -10 C on multiple occasions. It did suffer leaf and twig damage but only on younger growth.
Also, have a look here: --> hardy to around -5 C in dry conditions.

I would very much love to taste those.. We have no citrus industry either but it is illegal to import anything citrusy from outside the EU.. just because.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Winter damage, Yuma citrange F2
« on: April 18, 2023, 06:04:00 AM »
I'll throw in my two cents worth:

I was able to pick ripe fruit of Eisenhut's Yuma and Sacaton in December 2017. At that time of year, most Sacaton were yellow but quite a few Yuma were still greenish. Both of Eisenhut's plants are undoubtedly Citrumelos. The Yuma is bigger and better in every way than the Sacaton. Fruit is about double the size and weight and flavour is much better (though not quite as good as Nr. 82). Sacaton is small, seedy and tastes awful with a lot of Poncirine present. None of the seedlings from the Sacaton seeds came true to the mother, while the Yuma seedlings appear to be identical to the mother tree. I have given away the Yumas but kept about five of the oddball Sacaton seedlings. They stayed outdoors the last two winters (down to -10 C, sometimes a week or so below 0 C) without any problem and kept all their leaves.





Citrus General Discussion / Re: Curly leaf citron
« on: March 15, 2023, 10:56:53 AM »
Here's an interesting paper "Gastronomy and the citron tree":
I myself acquired a "Mangiali" last year but it has not flowered yet.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Honey Pomelo seedlings
« on: February 11, 2023, 12:26:04 PM »
I'm glad the seedling fruits are not exactly like the parent fruit. My pomelo seedling took 7 yrs to fruit and it is much better tasting than the sour fruits of the parent tree (which i got rid of). Now I have a very good fruiting seedling pomelo.

Florian, yes, please take a few photos of your seedling so I can compare how the leaves will look like when my seeds start to grow. I plan to let each of my seedlings grow until they fruit.

Plantinyum, can you take some photos of you 3yr old honey pomelo seedling and post it here, would like to have it for future reference.

Here you go. One of my seedlings.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« on: February 08, 2023, 07:31:12 AM »
Sounds like a nice and knowledgeable guy on Youtube. It helps if you speak Spanish ;D. I would certainly like to see the crosses involving Citrus hystrix.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Honey Pomelo seedlings
« on: January 29, 2023, 02:24:05 PM »
Florian, I know its been 3 yrs now, just wondering how your seedling Honey Pomelo are doing ?

I'm planning to grow out some seeds myself.

I left them in the community pot for quite a while and only separated them last year. Also, I just let them sit in the corner and leglected them. They have grown quite a bit anyway but could be bigger, of course. I will take a photo when I get around to it..

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« on: January 25, 2023, 07:36:07 AM »
I have read that the growth habit of Flying Dragon is caused by one dominant gene or allel. So it could easily be outbread. But that would also mean that there is perhaps not one Flying Dragon around but many Flying Dragons with different genealogies, different numbers of zygotic seeds, different taste etc.
What is your impression? I have not much experience with Flying Dragon myself.

I have thought so before. The description from The Citrus Industry Vol. 1 (1967) cited by the UCR website says: Grown primarily as a potted plant, this is a highly dwarfed variety with very small leaves, the leaflets of which are commonly reduced to linear filaments, and slender crooked branches armed with large, downward-curved spines.. My flying dragon certainly does not have linear filaments as leaves. Also, I have tried to pollinate it a few times and not once had a hybrid which one would expect in a 50 % zygotic plant. And all of my seedlings are dwarfed and contorted; there has never been a regular type seedling.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« on: January 10, 2023, 05:24:49 AM »
Citrandarin US 852 and Sacaton Citrumelo are known to produce only about 50% or so nucellar seeds. Also, Ilya has made many hybrids with his Citrumelo 5*. I would prefer the 5* over Sacaton since the latter tastes awful even for a Citrumelo.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Nansho Daidai and other Taiwanica cultivars
« on: December 14, 2022, 04:26:28 PM »
I wasn't aware that there were different cultivars of C. taiwanica. To me Nansho daidai is just the vernacular name of C. taiwanica.
Anyway, here's C. taiwanica in Eisenhut nursery (their Nr. 171):


Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Can you order cold hardy citrus
« on: December 07, 2022, 08:24:57 AM »
There is for example a nursery in France that has citrus fruit baskets now, but it is tied to what is ripe at this time. Not everything in it is cold hardy either. I've seen them sold containing Keraji, Ichang Lemon, and of course Yuzu and Satsuma. Throughout the year they sell citrus to restaurants. The window of ripe fruit is quite small, they are not processed and treated for storage in the way they do in commercial fruit nurseries.

There is not much commercial fruit cultivation of the hardy varieties, and if there is, then they will likely not have a wide range of varieties. Only something like satsuma and Yuzu I expect.

Best you can do is contact/visit nurseries that sell hardy citrus plants and ask what is ripe on the trees at that time. Or ask in citrus facebook groups or forums.

He's in the US, many US states can't even import citrus from other states, let alone from abroad.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Pigmented hybrids from Italy.
« on: November 25, 2022, 02:35:34 PM »
Early Sicily looks very nice, congrats! You say it tastes like a very sweet orange. Is there also enough acidity or not?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« on: November 23, 2022, 09:07:39 AM »
Unless proven otherwise, I will assume you did everything right and the test worked fine thus your Kabosu is free of Tristeza. I don't have it exactly because I was told by the French that it had Tristeza. Might just get it some time after all..

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Huge clementines
« on: November 19, 2022, 01:57:06 PM »
Normal clemintine or nule time is Dec to Jan, so they could be off season fruits, or produced in other weather areas, South America? Africa? or India.   

If they contain a lot of seeds, they could be cross pollinated fruits, which could be bigger with rough rind.

I went back and checked. They are from Spain, it says Class I. No seeds so far. Clemenules are in supermarkets everywhere now but they are all normal size.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Huge clementines
« on: November 16, 2022, 09:04:53 AM »
Thanks, that is an interesting point. So, perhaps Lidl bought all the off-season fruit to offer them cheaper. I will have to buy a normal-sized one somewhere else and compare the taste.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Thomasville v. Morton?
« on: November 16, 2022, 06:55:34 AM »
I also enjoy Thomasville, it is sweet when fully ripe. Haven't tried Morton.

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