Container friendly tropicals that max out at 9 feet?

[kybishop]

Hey all!

I'm zone pushing in 7a with the help of a basement grow room for times when temperatures dip below tolerable. I'm looking for general suggestions of plants that can take occasional dips to 25 F so I can keep plants outside for 8 months of the year. Since I'm carting them in and out of my basement they'll generally need to be at or below 9 feet.

So far I've got the following (amongst many other fruits that aren't in need of winter aid):
- 3 varieties of Feijoa
- 1 Strawberry Chillean Guava (Ugni molinae)
- 1 Starcherry (Eugenia selloi)
- 1 Superior Lemondrop mangosteen (Garcinia brasiliensis) - Adam has mentioned it has taken brief dips below 30, so I'm ok with babying this one

I have plans to order various citrus from OGW next season since they're all grown on dwarfing rootstock that will keep them below 8 feet tall.

I'm super interested in getting an achacha but it feels iffy to grab something that can't take occasional dips below 30. Is anyone aware of slightly more cold tolerant achachas? I know this is probably a bit of a shot in the dark since most achachas I've seen sold from stateside nurseries are from wild seedlings.

All that said, would love to hear other suggestions of fruits worth considering!

[kybishop]

On a similar note, does anyone know of citrus sellers that can ship to non-quarantined states which use Flying Dragon rootstocks (or similarly extremely dwarfing rootstocks)?

Would love to save on shipping instead of shipping across the whole continental US

[fruitnut1944]

My experience is that you don't need dwarfing rootstocks to keep many plants below 9ft in pots. The small soil volume dwarfs plants all by itself.

This includes citrus, stone fruit, and pome fruits. I think you'll find it extends to most tree fruits such as mango.

In fact a bigger problem is that trees in pots run out of vigor after 4-5 years. At that point they need root pruning, repotting, and for many things renewal pruning of the top.

[vnomonee]

Welcome to the forum

I grow some subtropicals and tropicals in containers as well in zone 7, just remember that dips into 25f in the ground is not the same as dips to 25f while the plant is containerized since the roots are exposed to cold air temperature vs in the ground which would be warmer. I will start bringing those plants in within the next week or so.

As for getting citrus specifically on that rootstock, some nurseries have a special order option (Madison Citrus comes to mind https://madisoncitrusnursery.com/). None of my grafted plants that I've ordered online from other sources have come in on flying dragon or trifoliate, I've had them come on carizzo, srs mandarin, and us-1284, or as cuttings on own roots.

[brian]

You can grow most things in containers, especially grafted types.  The only thing that may be difficult is growing trees from seed that get huge before they fruit, which doesn't seem to be too many.

I have a ton of container trees, largest containers are 20gal for 7ft tall trees. 

MadisonCitrus is a good place to get citrus, you will probably be fine with a non-dwarfing rootstock if you are growing in containers.  My container citrus never get that big regardless of rootstock, but once I planted some in-ground in my greenhouse the ones on more vigorous rootstock got huge fast.

[kybishop]

My experience is that you don't need dwarfing rootstocks to keep many plants below 9ft in pots. The small soil volume dwarfs plants all by itself.

This includes citrus, stone fruit, and pome fruits. I think you'll find it extends to most tree fruits such as mango.

In fact a bigger problem is that trees in pots run out of vigor after 4-5 years. At that point they need root pruning, repotting, and for many things renewal pruning of the top.

Man I'd love to grow mango... I'll definitely have to look into it. I see that fastgrowingtrees claims their Glenn Mango tops out around 8 feet in containers. I don't know much about mango varieties so I'll have to dig in more to learn which are most promising to explore, and what size pot I should put them in to be safe in regards to their size.

I'm ok with doing some root and renewal pruning. In the long term, I plan for my next property to be big enough to house a large Chinese greenhouse for more full-sized plants . Can tropical trees such as mango survive pruning all the way to the root?

Welcome to the forum

I grow some subtropicals and tropicals in containers as well in zone 7, just remember that dips into 25f in the ground is not the same as dips to 25f while the plant is containerized since the roots are exposed to cold air temperature vs in the ground which would be warmer. I will start bringing those plants in within the next week or so.

As for getting citrus specifically on that rootstock, some nurseries have a special order option (Madison Citrus comes to mind https://madisoncitrusnursery.com/). None of my grafted plants that I've ordered online from other sources have come in on flying dragon or trifoliate, I've had them come on carizzo, srs mandarin, and us-1284, or as cuttings on own roots.

Glad to have found it!

Ah that's a very good point about exposed roots. Guess I'll be running my lights a little longer than expected now that I've tacked that lemon drop mangosteen into the bunch.

Much thanks for pointing me towards the local citrus option. Will shoot them some messages to see about lining some things up: Meiwa and Nagami kumquat, New Zealand lemonade, Washington Naval, and a few others.

Also psyched to see another 7a to learn from! I saw in your profile a few passionfruit listed. How have you gone about growing those given how much they want to creep? Lots of pruning? I'm guessing you're in the same boat as me with only being able to grow Maypops year-round outside?

[kybishop]

You can grow most things in containers, especially grafted types.  The only thing that may be difficult is growing trees from seed that get huge before they fruit, which doesn't seem to be too many.

I have a ton of container trees, largest containers are 20gal for 7ft tall trees. 

MadisonCitrus is a good place to get citrus, you will probably be fine with a non-dwarfing rootstock if you are growing in containers.  My container citrus never get that big regardless of rootstock, but once I planted some in-ground in my greenhouse the ones on more vigorous rootstock got huge fast.

Oh that's awesome to hear! Would you mind sharing a handful of citrus and/or other tropicals you've managed to keep to that size with 20 gal pots? Super helpful to see what's worked so I don't end up with a giant plant stuck in my basement

[irun5k]

I've had both a Sugar apple or a Makok sapodilla fruit pretty decently in a 20 gallon or smaller pot.  Makok is a small tree to begin with so it seems pretty comfortable in a container.
Dragon fruit are very frequently grown in 20 gallon containers.

[Jaboticaba45]

Welcome to the forum!
I grow a lot of tropical fruits up here in my greenhouse
They all stay small due to pruning and pot size and tiger factors
Mostly everything can be grown in pots
If you have any questions about a particular plant or how I’m set up, feel free to send me a pm.
Looks like we are in similar growing zones

[kybishop]

I've had both a Sugar apple or a Makok sapodilla fruit pretty decently in a 20 gallon or smaller pot.  Makok is a small tree to begin with so it seems pretty comfortable in a container.
Dragon fruit are very frequently grown in 20 gallon containers.

A sapodilla is one I didn't even consider, will absolutely grab one when they're back in stock! I'll probably have to wait until next year since we're approaching sub 32F soon.

I've been debating if sugar apple would be worth it for me since I've got a bunch of pawpaws out back (still haven't had a sugar apple but I'm taking a trip to Oaxaca this winter and hoping some anonas will be in season). I've heard some people mention it might be a tough one to keep under 9 feet, but maybe those people were growing it in much larger pots? How tall would you say your sugar apple has gotten?

Dragon fruit would be amazing but I'm a bit terrified of moving a giant cactus in and out every season

Welcome to the forum!
I grow a lot of tropical fruits up here in my greenhouse
They all stay small due to pruning and pot size and tiger factors
Mostly everything can be grown in pots
If you have any questions about a particular plant or how I’m set up, feel free to send me a pm.
Looks like we are in similar growing zones

Used to live in Chattanooga! Wish I'd gotten onto this fruit bender while I was there Will definitely shoot you a message tomorrow!

[vnomonee]

I grow edulis in 3 gallon pots, after fruiting I cut them back my oldest plant is 3 years old, very root bound, will need an up-pot or I can just get rid of it and grow a new plant via cutting which I did already. I grow them with a tomato cage so I can wrap the vines around when it's time to bring the plants in. I also grew a banana passion fruit for 3 years but that one never flowered. I pruned it too hard this year and it died to the base but has since resprouted. Maypop is in the ground and comes back every year. Fruit is ok, I defintely like edulis better.

[elouicious]

and tiger factors

Well what did you expect releasing a 2000lb feline in the greenhouse? 

[MisterPlantee]

One of my potted tropicals is a Glenn Mango in a 25G pot. It has been bearing fruit for a few years. It has been about 7' tall for the past few years so I think that's the max with pruning.

[Daintree]

Welcome!
I am in zone 6 and have 64 species of tropical plants in my greenhouse. Sitting out there having coffee right now, in fact. I started out like you, moving things in and out every year but it killed me. Those big pots are heavy! Wound up with golfers elbow and tennis elbow in both arms. Couldn't even lift a pen or a coffee cup for months.

So, thoughts -
1 - Most anything can be grown in pots with the right care. So go wild.
2 - Get a really good pot dolly.
3 - Then give up and build a greenhouse...



May LOOK peaceful, but as I was typing this, one of my little parrots fell into my coffee cup! Oh, the hazards of jungle life!

[K-Rimes]

I have many very successful eugenia in pots. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

[Galatians522]

What about Jaboticaba? I knew a guy in Indiana who had one for years. A few more that meet the hardiness requirement but might require pruning are Loquat, Pomegranate, Fig, and some of the high quality mulberries.

[W.]

Welcome! Glad to see another temperate grower join the forum.

Lots of good points have been made in this thread.

I see a definite difference between your experience container growing in Asheville, up in the mountains, zone 7a at the cusp of being 6b; and my experience in North Alabama, in relative lowlands, and solidly in 7b. I keep my container plants outside seven months, sometimes longer, but I bring them in before the nightly lows drop below 40°. I would be getting close to nine months of outside time for them if I let them experience nights in the 20s. I would be experiencing some dead plants, though, since I do not think everything in my collection would be happy with such exposure.

Needless to say, plants and their root balls get heavier as they mature. A good plant dolly and a good back are essentials. I usually cart shorter plants into my basement in a wheelbarrow.

I am also surprised jaboticabas were not mentioned immediately. They have compact growth habits, can stay in containers long-term, and handle temperatures into the 20s (as long as the exposure is brief). Varieties like red and escarlate fruit quickly and at small sizes. If you baby them in the winter and do not expose them to cold temperatures, you may even be able to get a winter crop since they fruit multiple times per year.

Some Eugenia species, such as Eugenia selloi (Pitangatuba), are excellent for container growing.

vnomonee has a good Passiflora growing method for those of us in temperate regions trying to grow something other than maypops, which I have in my yard but now consider too insipid for anything other than ornamental growth and caterpillar food. I have been experimenting with other methods of getting edulis crops in my location, but so far, no luck.

Sugar apple (Annona squamosa) is probably the best Annona for container growing. People have fruited them in containers as small as 3 gallons. I selected seedlings with natural branching and shrubby growth habits. That has, so far, worked to keep mine small.

I find that the thorns are not the issue with container growing dragon fruit, it is the staking/trellising, particularly moving them in and out without disrupting that staking/trellising. That is my issue with dragon fruit.

Lemons are an excellent container citrus. People have been growing them that way in temperate areas of the US since before anyone here was born. One of my great-grandmothers had a lemon she dragged in and out of her garage as conditions required. Kumquats (and the various hybrid-quats) and finger limes are also good container citrus. When it comes to citrus, watch out for spider mites, my greatest nemesis.

[K-Rimes]

What about Jaboticaba? I knew a guy in Indiana who had one for years. A few more that meet the hardiness requirement but might require pruning are Loquat, Pomegranate, Fig, and some of the high quality mulberries.

Jaboticaba are another excellent container species.

[1rainman]

A rooted citrus cutting tends to be small and bushy. Usually they are smaller as a rooted cutting than on root stock. The down side they are weaker and less productive. However growing in a container with potting soil and being babied rooted cuttings are the way to go.

Dwarf Meyer lemon maxes out at six feet though is a wide bush (rooted cutting which is how they sell them typically). Sweeter than a normal lemon and more cold tolerant. The other dwarf citrus I tried were around 10 feet. Add 3 feet for the pot too big for indoors. Yes they stay smaller in smaller pots but not much fruit that way practically none. Once they reach mature size you get good fruit crops though will be more on grafted roots though dwarf root stock usually is 12 feet maybe 10.

I took mine in when temps go below freezing but it can handle 25 for a short time in the morning if it warms back up during the day.

I grew bananas in containers but they make too many babies which you basically have to start with one baby and it does fine but when it tries to grow two or three in a container it's a problem. They were super healthy outside but really sad looking indoors during the winter even with a grow light. Spider mites and everything else.

I grew ban

[pagnr]

Ultra dwarf Papaya varieties.
Any thoughts on Avocado vars, some are pretty compact, short nodes, small trees.
Citrus are going to be controlled by container size.
Grafted Tropical fruit trees and Marcotts might be better choices for containers than seedlings ??

[kittycatus]

Miracle fruit and the cedar bay cherry make excellent container plants. Annona stenophylla also stays tiny for easy container gardening.

Achacha trees get huge even in small containers.

[kybishop]

Tons of good info in here! Y'all are going to make me broke with all these suggestions

One of my potted tropicals is a Glenn Mango in a 25G pot. It has been bearing fruit for a few years. It has been about 7' tall for the past few years so I think that's the max with pruning.

That's surprising to hear it stayed so small even in such a large pot, and super helpful to hear. I'll probably keep mine in a 15 gallon since I have a bunch of those on hand. I just ordered myself a Glenn and a Carrie mango and I'm psyched for them!

Welcome!
I am in zone 6 and have 64 species of tropical plants in my greenhouse. Sitting out there having coffee right now, in fact. I started out like you, moving things in and out every year but it killed me. Those big pots are heavy! Wound up with golfers elbow and tennis elbow in both arms. Couldn't even lift a pen or a coffee cup for months.

So, thoughts -
1 - Most anything can be grown in pots with the right care. So go wild.
2 - Get a really good pot dolly.
3 - Then give up and build a greenhouse...

Hah! I'm definitely on that path. I've got another 2-3 years before I can get another property and space for a south-facing greenhouse is a top priority, so I'm sure it'll happen eventually. Your greenhouse looks like a literal dream of mine!

I have many very successful eugenia in pots. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

Nice! I have a Eugenia selloi on the way that I'm excited for. Any other particular Eugenia that you'd recommend flavor wise? I was looking at the Surinam Cherry but its description as having a "bell pepper" like taste isn't super appealing to me, though I'm going to try one whenever I get the chance to see if it'll change my mind.

What about Jaboticaba? I knew a guy in Indiana who had one for years. A few more that meet the hardiness requirement but might require pruning are Loquat, Pomegranate, Fig, and some of the high quality mulberries.

I have over 15 fig varieties lining my driveway in pots They'll be getting pulled into the garage once they go dormant.

I'm holding out on a pomegranite until I can get my hands on one of the super hardy varieties that aren't really commercially available yet as they're supposed to do just fine in my zone (Ideally Belbek, but also stoked on Uzbek or Bulgrian 1 or 3).

I have a Silk Hope mulberry I planted this year in my yard, with hopes of eventually planting a Pakistani mulberry (have had multiple reports of this surviving just fine in zone 6 if ordered from the right nursery, despite many people claiming it won't). Definitely going to graft some varieties, too.

Welcome! Glad to see another temperate grower join the forum.

Lots of good points have been made in this thread.

I see a definite difference between your experience container growing in Asheville, up in the mountains, zone 7a at the cusp of being 6b; and my experience in North Alabama, in relative lowlands, and solidly in 7b. I keep my container plants outside seven months, sometimes longer, but I bring them in before the nightly lows drop below 40°. I would be getting close to nine months of outside time for them if I let them experience nights in the 20s. I would be experiencing some dead plants, though, since I do not think everything in my collection would be happy with such exposure.

Needless to say, plants and their root balls get heavier as they mature. A good plant dolly and a good back are essentials. I usually cart shorter plants into my basement in a wheelbarrow.

I am also surprised jaboticabas were not mentioned immediately. They have compact growth habits, can stay in containers long-term, and handle temperatures into the 20s (as long as the exposure is brief). Varieties like red and escarlate fruit quickly and at small sizes. If you baby them in the winter and do not expose them to cold temperatures, you may even be able to get a winter crop since they fruit multiple times per year.

Some Eugenia species, such as Eugenia selloi (Pitangatuba), are excellent for container growing.

vnomonee has a good Passiflora growing method for those of us in temperate regions trying to grow something other than maypops, which I have in my yard but now consider too insipid for anything other than ornamental growth and caterpillar food. I have been experimenting with other methods of getting edulis crops in my location, but so far, no luck.

Sugar apple (Annona squamosa) is probably the best Annona for container growing. People have fruited them in containers as small as 3 gallons. I selected seedlings with natural branching and shrubby growth habits. That has, so far, worked to keep mine small.

I find that the thorns are not the issue with container growing dragon fruit, it is the staking/trellising, particularly moving them in and out without disrupting that staking/trellising. That is my issue with dragon fruit.

Lemons are an excellent container citrus. People have been growing them that way in temperate areas of the US since before anyone here was born. One of my great-grandmothers had a lemon she dragged in and out of her garage as conditions required. Kumquats (and the various hybrid-quats) and finger limes are also good container citrus. When it comes to citrus, watch out for spider mites, my greatest nemesis.

Very good advice on the temperature. I'm going to start bringing my things in when temperatures start dipping below 40s after hearing what vnomonee mentioned about the exposed root balls. Knowing this I'm suddenly a lot more motivated to put in a very tiny basic greenhouse so I can keep the more sensitive plants out a little longer, something like a 6 x 10, which is about all the room I can really spare for one.

Got a pitangatuba on the way! Thinking I might order an escarlate tonight, I've been really curious about them.

Interesting to hear your thoughts on the maypop. I have a fence I'm getting replaced and plan to put some maypop out to climb it once that's done. Was going to try the one from Peaceful Heritage since they boast that it's much better tasting than most. They're so cheap I'll still try them out, and if I don't like them I'll find a replacement.

Sounds like I'll have to experiment with Annonas after all I'll see about starting some seedlings next month or so. I'll probably leave dragon fruit for next year with all that I'm putting on my plate for now.

[kybishop]

A rooted citrus cutting tends to be small and bushy. Usually they are smaller as a rooted cutting than on root stock. The down side they are weaker and less productive. However growing in a container with potting soil and being babied rooted cuttings are the way to go.

Dwarf Meyer lemon maxes out at six feet though is a wide bush (rooted cutting which is how they sell them typically). Sweeter than a normal lemon and more cold tolerant. The other dwarf citrus I tried were around 10 feet. Add 3 feet for the pot too big for indoors. Yes they stay smaller in smaller pots but not much fruit that way practically none. Once they reach mature size you get good fruit crops though will be more on grafted roots though dwarf root stock usually is 12 feet maybe 10.

I took mine in when temps go below freezing but it can handle 25 for a short time in the morning if it warms back up during the day.

I grew bananas in containers but they make too many babies which you basically have to start with one baby and it does fine but when it tries to grow two or three in a container it's a problem. They were super healthy outside but really sad looking indoors during the winter even with a grow light. Spider mites and everything else.

I grew ban

I'm probably going to be stubborn on the citrus and hold out for some dwarves on Flying Dragon specifically. I've heard from multiple nurseries that they'll cap out under 8 feet on that rootstock, which is doable for me. Definitely looking for a Meyer lemon!

Good to hear on the bananas being more challenging, I was debating those. I think I'll hold off on them until I get the eventual proper greenhouse, and then go with the dwarfiest varieties that are worthwhile.

Also, did the end of your post perhaps get cut off?

Ultra dwarf Papaya varieties.
Any thoughts on Avocado vars, some are pretty compact, short nodes, small trees.
Citrus are going to be controlled by container size.
Grafted Tropical fruit trees and Marcotts might be better choices for containers than seedlings ??

Personally never been a huge papaya fan, and only had green papaya in salads when living in Thailand. Going to give them another go if I can get my hands on some tree-ripened varieties though.

I had someone on growingfruit.org mention that avocados really want larger pots (much larger than I'm willing to lug in or out). Would be great if that's not necessarily the case, though I still might wait until the proper greenhouse for them since they're so bushy.

Miracle fruit and the cedar bay cherry make excellent container plants. Annona stenophylla also stays tiny for easy container gardening.

Achacha trees get huge even in small containers.

Haven't heard of cedar bay cherry or Annona stenophylla! Will be investigating those.

I'm in big trouble with my achacha then I'll keep both that and my lemondrop mangosteen in smaller than usual containers in hopes of it working out

[Jaboticaba45]

Here’s my advice.
Stay away from dragon fruit. Everyone who grows up north says it gets too big and isn’t worth the time growing it.

Garcinias like achacha and lemon drop are slow growing. Buy larger trees or wait 10 years. Ok just kidding but they are slow growers and achacha took 15 years to fruit for Tropical Fruit Hunters. Check him out. He grew a lot of tropicals in  his greenhouse in Ohio. And has a nice blog. Lemon drop is faster and mine should be fruiting in a couple more years.

And stay away from ultra tropicals. It took me a while but I realized it’s not worth growing stuff that’s not gonna fruit. Climate is too harsh even with greenhouse to grow lots of palms, mangosteen, breadfruit, durian etc. it’s up to you what you want to grow, just for me I like to grow stuff that has a chance at fruiting here.

Jaboticabas, Eugenia’s, sapodilla, muntingia, mango, citrus, lychee, etc can all stay small in pots with pruning. I’ve fruited most of those listed in pots too.
I’d be happy to hook you up with some plants if you want. Feel free to reach out.

[kybishop]

Here’s my advice.
Stay away from dragon fruit. Everyone who grows up north says it gets too big and isn’t worth the time growing it.

Garcinias like achacha and lemon drop are slow growing. Buy larger trees or wait 10 years. Ok just kidding but they are slow growers and achacha took 15 years to fruit for Tropical Fruit Hunters. Check him out. He grew a lot of tropicals in  his greenhouse in Ohio. And has a nice blog. Lemon drop is faster and mine should be fruiting in a couple more years.

And stay away from ultra tropicals. It took me a while but I realized it’s not worth growing stuff that’s not gonna fruit. Climate is too harsh even with greenhouse to grow lots of palms, mangosteen, breadfruit, durian etc. it’s up to you what you want to grow, just for me I like to grow stuff that has a chance at fruiting here.

Jaboticabas, Eugenia’s, sapodilla, muntingia, mango, citrus, lychee, etc can all stay small in pots with pruning. I’ve fruited most of those listed in pots too.
I’d be happy to hook you up with some plants if you want. Feel free to reach out.

PM sent!

Good to know on dragon fruit. I was pretty iffy on it anyways. I already have a mini collection of different Echinopsis that I kind of dread getting too large Might just have to start topping them yearly and making use of them

I'll have to hunt down Tropical Fruit Hunters' experience with achacha. I'll definitely be in it for the long haul with that one. Maybe I'll get lucky and the longer light hours I can provide via the grow lights will get it to grow/fruit a little faster.