Author Topic: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..  (Read 12540 times)

ben mango

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Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« on: April 30, 2014, 12:02:13 AM »
Ive had several different varieties of black sapote here in Hawaii and none are sweet like a nice persimmon..

Anyone have an idea why this may be?

bsbullie

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2014, 12:26:57 AM »
Because they arent going to be sweet like a good persimmon.   While it is in the persimmon family,  it naturally has a much more mild, subtle flavor and sweetness when compared to a persimmon.
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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2014, 01:41:48 AM »
Just mix with a little fresh cane juice :)

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2014, 02:02:48 AM »
I let my black sapotes turn near soft and deeply ripened.

They'll be sweeter.  With that said, they still won't be as sweet as other persimmons.

Most people mix the fruit in with vanilla ice cream and they compliment one another well.

fruitlovers

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2014, 02:11:04 AM »
Subject line should be: Black sapote not sweet anywhere.  ;)
If you're in Big Island above 1500-2000 feet, and like ultra sweet fruits, you can grow Japanese persimmon. They are grown commercially in places like Wood Valley.
Black sapote only distantly related to Japanese persimmon. Very different fruits.
Oscar

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2014, 07:01:58 AM »
Add a few drops of honey and stir.

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2014, 09:59:26 AM »
I have developed an affinity for this fruit over the last few months.  It is VERY GOOD when added with other fruits in smoothies.  I also wait until the fruit's skin is black, mushy, and leaking out the bottom--WAY past when I would normally eat any other fruit.  Delicious!  But as others have said, not a top-tier, eaten-out-of-hand kind of fruit
~Jeff

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ClayMango

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2014, 12:06:54 PM »
I see these sapotes littered all over the big box stores...do I need to grab one Jeff?
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gunnar429

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2014, 01:06:50 PM »
not sure if you mean the fruit or the tree.  I would get the tree for variety and to increase smoothie selection--not for eating out of hand.  I don't have it yet, but it is on my list

If you do buy fruit, let it get "looks like it was in the compost pile for 2 weeks" ripe.  When it's leaking juice, blend it up with other fruit and some honey.  mmmm!  It not only gives a chocolate-like flavor, but also a nice yogurt-like texture.
~Jeff

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ClayMango

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2014, 01:49:58 PM »
not sure if you mean the fruit or the tree.  I would get the tree for variety and to increase smoothie selection--not for eating out of hand.  I don't have it yet, but it is on my list

If you do buy fruit, let it get "looks like it was in the compost pile for 2 weeks" ripe.  When it's leaking juice, blend it up with other fruit and some honey.  mmmm!  It not only gives a chocolate-like flavor, but also a nice yogurt-like texture.


Jeff you're really selling this this tree to me right now...how am I suppose to explain this new tree to the Wife....You are going to get me in more trouble!
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NewGen

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2014, 02:03:42 PM »
While at Fruit & Spice Park last summer, I had a sampler plate of fruits grown there. The usual suspects were excellent: jackfruit, papaya, mangos, white sapote, .... I've had them before in CA. I was eager to try black sapote for the first time, it was kinda disappointing. I guess because I bought into the hype by the marketing phrase "tastes like chocolate pudding". It was OK, not anywhere near the top of my fruit list. If somebody gave me a black sapote tree for free, I'd plant it, but I'd never buy one.

LivingParadise

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2014, 02:23:42 PM »
While at Fruit & Spice Park last summer, I had a sampler plate of fruits grown there. The usual suspects were excellent: jackfruit, papaya, mangos, white sapote, .... I've had them before in CA. I was eager to try black sapote for the first time, it was kinda disappointing. I guess because I bought into the hype by the marketing phrase "tastes like chocolate pudding". It was OK, not anywhere near the top of my fruit list. If somebody gave me a black sapote tree for free, I'd plant it, but I'd never buy one.

If you go back to Fruit & Spice Park, go in their cooler and try a black sapote ice cream. Their ice creams are really good, of pretty much any flavor. I didn't go out of my way to buy a black sapote tree, I came across one and it was cheap. But the memory of that smooth creamy chocolatey-esque yet fruity exotic ice cream made me decide to go ahead and bring it home. I wouldn't go out of my way either, but a number of fruits are really better when cooked or made into desserts than they are eaten raw, and the diversity can be fun and a little exciting. I like a lot of the sapotes for the texture, and the exotic undertones in the flavors - they kind of remind me of some kind of weird vegetable/fruit hybrid. Like a creamy cooked root that's also kind of sweet. It's not like I crave a fruity-tasting variety of potato all the time, but I do find the novelty of it fun. :)

I think of fruits like Black Sapote the same way I think of lemon - you don't necessarily pick it off the tree and eat it, but it doesn't mean it's not a good fruit or that it can't produce some delicious dishes/desserts. But unless I am obsessed with that particular flavor I don't think I would grow a whole orchard of them!

If you do buy fruit, let it get "looks like it was in the compost pile for 2 weeks" ripe.  When it's leaking juice, blend it up

No offense, but if this is the technique, how do you know when a black sapote is rotted? This sounds pretty gross, lol! But mine hasn't fruited yet, so I'm not saying I wouldn't try it myself. But what is the difference to you then between a "ripe" Black Sapote, and a rotted inedible one, if what you're looking for is a black fruit that is mushy and leaking juice? Is there really an appreciable difference, or are you just saying rotted black sapote is the best tasting? (Which is not necessarily a good recommendation of the fruit's taste, lol!)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 02:25:41 PM by LivingParadise »

NewGen

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2014, 03:09:27 PM »
Hmmm, should've tried that black sapote ice cream. I'll make a note of that next time in Miami. I did find that the dropped white sapotes on the ground around the tree were EXCELLENT!!!

fruitlovers

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2014, 05:58:48 PM »
not sure if you mean the fruit or the tree.  I would get the tree for variety and to increase smoothie selection--not for eating out of hand.  I don't have it yet, but it is on my list

If you do buy fruit, let it get "looks like it was in the compost pile for 2 weeks" ripe.  When it's leaking juice, blend it up with other fruit and some honey.  mmmm!  It not only gives a chocolate-like flavor, but also a nice yogurt-like texture.

Believe it or not some black sapotes are quite good out of hand. They are not going to be super sweet like a japanese persimmon, but never the less are good. Some trees produce very bland fruits, but some cultivars are quite yummy out of hand.
Oscar

Tropheus76

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2014, 08:01:53 PM »
Since we are on the subject, I am in a cool 9B zone here in FL, I have been on the fence about getting one of these. We had two very light freezes this year just as an example, jaboticabas did fine, a banana died to the ground. Could I get away with a black sapote here?

bsbullie

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2014, 10:30:54 PM »
Clay - dont know how the grow in California however in most area that I know the black sapote will grow into a large tree.  Just saying in case space is an issue.

LivingParadhise - while two weeks and leaking may be an extreme,  Jeff is correct that you want to let a black sapote get sosoft and discolored to a dark green/brown color for it to be prime for eeating.   I like to tell people to let it get to a point to where it looks like it is rotten and ready for the trash, wait another day or two, and it will be perfect for eating.  It maybe should take a week or so to ripen after being picked.
- Rob

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2014, 11:19:03 PM »
Some are quite sweet. if you leave them to get dark browny green where the bottom of the fruit cracks a little with only the weight of the the fruit, you can transfer it to a plastic container in the fridge so the pulp can thicken/firm up. With a good moist type there will be a juice in the plastic container and you can drink it. It is very sweet.

If you are trying to sell it to the wife, just tell her its a low calorie desert. Just add a dolop of cream and some honey, or OJ, or Cointreau. Loverly!

Try to find a moist type if you can. Like most fruits, there are variances in fruit quality, with some being terrible mealy things that dont even beat down well into pudding, let alone stand up to out of hand eating.

ClayMango

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2014, 11:54:42 PM »
Clay - dont know how the grow in California however in most area that I know the black sapote will grow into a large tree.  Just saying in case space is an issue.

LivingParadhise - while two weeks and leaking may be an extreme,  Jeff is correct that you want to let a black sapote get sosoft and discolored to a dark green/brown color for it to be prime for eeating.   I like to tell people to let it get to a point to where it looks like it is rotten and ready for the trash, wait another day or two, and it will be perfect for eating.  It maybe should take a week or so to ripen after being picked.

Looks like I'll just try to score some from a farmers market...maybe someone from the CRFG will have some spare fruit after the harvest.
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fruitlovers

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2014, 01:17:15 AM »
Since we are on the subject, I am in a cool 9B zone here in FL, I have been on the fence about getting one of these. We had two very light freezes this year just as an example, jaboticabas did fine, a banana died to the ground. Could I get away with a black sapote here?

CRFG fruit cultural data gives 28F as harm temperature and 25F as kill temperature. Here they are probably one of the most upland tolerant sapotes, fruiting well at above 2000 feet. Probably if you can nurse it the first 2-3 years you could get it to fruit well.
About size, seedlings get very large, about size of avocado tree. But grafted trees can be kept quite small and fruit a lot faster.
Oscar

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2014, 02:35:49 AM »
If you are going to get the tree, it will do well in 9b.  I am growing one, and we had the harshest winter we've had in 30 years, and it did just fine--only losing about 6"-12" of upper branch tips.

That said, it is certainly much more tropical than other persimmons, and I doubt it would thrive in anything colder than zone 8.

Mine is grafted, and upon planting it, I decapitated it to a 30" stump at a 1" thickness--leaving only one small branch at about the 20" mark (was a tough call, because the former canopy looked quite nice and developed, but the roots looked "bleh").

The following spring, the little stump that could came to life, and vigorously fast--reaching 6 feet by the end of the year and produced a few fruit.

Give them severe pruning each year, because they make a lot of prolific greenery.

I am able to keep mine under control with annual decaps at around 8 feet.

It seems to like a mound also.  I elevated mine 6" overground at the center with a 6 foot circle and traced it with cypress mulch.

ben mango

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2014, 09:37:45 PM »
Some are quite sweet. if you leave them to get dark browny green where the bottom of the fruit cracks a little with only the weight of the the fruit, you can transfer it to a plastic container in the fridge so the pulp can thicken/firm up. With a good moist type there will be a juice in the plastic container and you can drink it. It is very sweet.

If you are trying to sell it to the wife, just tell her its a low calorie desert. Just add a dolop of cream and some honey, or OJ, or Cointreau. Loverly!

Try to find a moist type if you can. Like most fruits, there are variances in fruit quality, with some being terrible mealy things that dont even beat down well into pudding, let alone stand up to out of hand eating.

I heard they can be sweet in mexico and Queensland  I wonder why not here..

Has anyone had success planting black sapote from seed and getting a productive tree ?

fruitlovers

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2014, 10:31:01 PM »
Some are quite sweet. if you leave them to get dark browny green where the bottom of the fruit cracks a little with only the weight of the the fruit, you can transfer it to a plastic container in the fridge so the pulp can thicken/firm up. With a good moist type there will be a juice in the plastic container and you can drink it. It is very sweet.

If you are trying to sell it to the wife, just tell her its a low calorie desert. Just add a dolop of cream and some honey, or OJ, or Cointreau. Loverly!

Try to find a moist type if you can. Like most fruits, there are variances in fruit quality, with some being terrible mealy things that dont even beat down well into pudding, let alone stand up to out of hand eating.

I heard they can be sweet in mexico and Queensland  I wonder why not here..

Has anyone had success planting black sapote from seed and getting a productive tree ?

Yes i have a fruiting tree planted from seed. Some can have some mild sweetness, but nothing like over poweringly sweet japanese persimmons. The reason some of the fruit in Australia is better than here is because they've been at it longer and have selected for bigger and better fruit. There have been previous threads about this. If you search inside the forum you can read them and see photos of whopper sized fruits.
Oscar

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2014, 10:34:21 PM »
amen Oscar...

some near me are worthless and bland....but I've tasted some from my friends tree that are delicious and sweet. Defintely worth eating out of hand.
not sure if you mean the fruit or the tree.  I would get the tree for variety and to increase smoothie selection--not for eating out of hand.  I don't have it yet, but it is on my list

If you do buy fruit, let it get "looks like it was in the compost pile for 2 weeks" ripe.  When it's leaking juice, blend it up with other fruit and some honey.  mmmm!  It not only gives a chocolate-like flavor, but also a nice yogurt-like texture.

Believe it or not some black sapotes are quite good out of hand. They are not going to be super sweet like a japanese persimmon, but never the less are good. Some trees produce very bland fruits, but some cultivars are quite yummy out of hand.
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ben mango

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2014, 04:44:10 PM »
not sure if you mean the fruit or the tree.  I would get the tree for variety and to increase smoothie selection--not for eating out of hand.  I don't have it yet, but it is on my list

If you do buy fruit, let it get "looks like it was in the compost pile for 2 weeks" ripe.  When it's leaking juice, blend it up with other fruit and some honey.  mmmm!  It not only gives a chocolate-like flavor, but also a nice yogurt-like texture.

Believe it or not some black sapotes are quite good out of hand. They are not going to be super sweet like a japanese persimmon, but never the less are good. Some trees produce very bland fruits, but some cultivars are quite yummy out of hand.

Have you ever eaten them in Mexico?  My fruit loving friend says he's had some there that are sweet like a persimmon.

fruitlovers

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Re: Black sapote not sweet in Hawaii..
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2014, 05:01:34 PM »
not sure if you mean the fruit or the tree.  I would get the tree for variety and to increase smoothie selection--not for eating out of hand.  I don't have it yet, but it is on my list

If you do buy fruit, let it get "looks like it was in the compost pile for 2 weeks" ripe.  When it's leaking juice, blend it up with other fruit and some honey.  mmmm!  It not only gives a chocolate-like flavor, but also a nice yogurt-like texture.

Believe it or not some black sapotes are quite good out of hand. They are not going to be super sweet like a japanese persimmon, but never the less are good. Some trees produce very bland fruits, but some cultivars are quite yummy out of hand.

Have you ever eaten them in Mexico?  My fruit loving friend says he's had some there that are sweet like a persimmon.

No i haven't eaten them in Mexico. But it's not a matter of where you eat them, but rather the nature of the fruit itself. It's like wanting lemons to taste like tangerines when grown in Mexico.
It's possible also that what your friend ate was a chocolate persimmon, this is a different fruit than a black sapote. Chocolate persimmon can be very sweet.
Oscar