The Tropical Fruit Forum

Rob from Sydney : I mentioned the M.odorata just for comparison.  It and M.casturi are lowland tropical, but behave differently here.  I wasn't recommending it for you. It's main value is as a Mango relative that fruits in high-rainfall regions where M.indica is unreliable.   It is very disease-resistant, has a flavour that would be too strong for a lot of people.  I still like it. It is a densely foliaged tree which is very pretty when it flowers, with large red panicles.   We use the fruit mainly for chutney.
Re . Mallika, we don't have any problems with fruit quality here.  It is a dwarf tree in India, and here too.  Two trees over 35 years old are less than three metres tall, and have not been pruned.
Re. M. casturi, it is grafted on M.indica.  About 7 metres tall.  M. odorata is grafted on M. indica too.
Re. M4 seedling, I don't know if it's being sold at present. 
I'm in a different climate to you, so you're better off getting cultivar advice from some growers nearer to you if that's possible.
All the best.

I still reckon I'll grow the Kasturi. I have space, and it sounds interesting, so I may as well.
And it is trure that we are in different climates, but it seems in my area pretty much the only mango people grow is KP. It's a shame there aren't many fruit-interested people in Sydney. If I want to eat tropical fruits, I have to go to the top of the state!
Thanks, David!

Due to strong bias in Aus against resin flavors in mango, I would rule out the CAC because it has a Haden-like aftertaste.
For Australians, the only newer mango with exclusively Parsnip taste (available from the posted links) is the Sweet Tart, which also happens to be poly.

I would try to get my hands on these poly varieties:
K3, P-22.

For mono varieties:
ZINC, and Venus.

That said the newer citrus ones can have great flavors without resin.

The ones to find that are intensely citrus and poly are LZ, Peach Cobbler, OS, PPK.

OS is intense sweet Orange, LZ is super intense non-specific citrus, PPK a slightly milder LZ, and OS somewhere between PPK and PC.

All good with slightly different season with a little overlap. The parsnip flavored ones are mostly strongly vigorous trees, and the citrus flavored ones vary a little tending towards the vigorous side.

I like Maha for a refined and balanced mango, but it shouldn't be eaten in the same sitting as the flavor bomb types.

If you favor resinous mangoes and you're not growing for the general Aussie audience, the world opens up to many different fruit, but you should try before committing.

I have heard great things about Venus, but we just don't have it in Australia. Same with Peach Cobbler. It's a shame.
And what's this resin taste about in Cac and Haden?
And what do you mean about 'parsnip' flavours?
I'm really curious. Thanks, Oolie.

From my understanding of things, no.
Some seedlings grow faster than others. A few months ago I was curious about a similar question: "Why are there good seeds, and why are there bad seeds? Why do some never germinate, and why do some take off?". I did a quick bit of research, and it came down the seed coming from a sturdy, healthy, and minimally-stressed tree.
And generally, if you grow a batch of tropical fruit seeds, the bigger seeds will produce more vigorous growth.
You could say a big seed coming from a happy tree will produce the best seedling.

And if you did happen to grow a seed that turned out to be dwarf, it would probably take years to show. Other seedlings of the same age will be far taller than it, but it will still be productive and healthy despite it's size.
I was hearing about a dwarf Jabotica specie that "Grows at the same pace as Sabara for the first few years, and then slows down".

What did the wild canistel, wild papaya and soncoya taste like?
I might have to buy some seeds!

IMO  there is nothing wrong with haden. The flavor is outstanding to me. Its very sweet and very juicy. Theres almost a floral note to its tropical sweetness. The skin is beautiful and also very tasty. It doesnt have that pine, resin flavor.

I listened to Coconut Cream about the 'Haden' mango. It seems like he has a whole different set of preferences than me, oh well.
The way you describe it to me makes it sound right up my alley. I think I'll have to grow it, and see who is right about it, but I reckon I'll like it.

Hey mate I personally prefer calypso, R2E2 and certainly honey gold over KP taste is of course subjective.  My orange sherbert hasn't fruited yet and my lemon zest died.  The people I know who have tried these zill varieties and compared with KP are people with large mango collections who know there mangoes well and I trust what they say. I will however come to my own conclusion once my own trees come into production.

Maha is excellent, I have tried most of the older florida varieties that are here and i dislike all of them they all have a chemical/turpentine aftertaste that our aussie mango's don't have.  Our tastes seem to align much more with the SE asians.

R2E2 over KP!?
Is your judgement based on eating homegrown or commercial fruits?
I know from eating LOTS of commercial mangoes that there are a bunch of inferior KP strains about, some even with a resinous (turpentine?) flavour.
And although I have not had many R2E2 mangoes, I have had one (grew the seed) that tasted just like a mango jelly cup, just with less sweetness. Not sure what I'll do with it considering that the fruit was very filling!
And is Mahachanok the same as Maha Bliss?
Thanks!

Maybe our tastes aren't that different. but growing conditions are. At least a hundred types of FL grown mangoes are better than a FL Kensington Pride, but that may not be true of the same fruit all grown Down Under.

I read an article about Brazilian Tree Grape tasting different depending on the soil, so it does happen. Maybe that is the case with mangoes, but I do know that there are inferior strains of KP going around. One day when I go to the USA, I will try as many mangoes as I can, including an Florida KP. Perhaps strains going around in Florida aren't normal KP but a hybrid?

Well, this Australian just ate a Mallika , grown here and ripened properly. The complexity and layers of flavour .   A better mango than any K.P. that I've ever eaten,i.m.o..  I like K.P. too.  70 years old now, grew up eating different types of mangos, not just K.P.     The tragedy is the DPI breeding program.  I ate several "Yess" mangos over a month ago.  I don't think I've ever eaten a less inspiring mango.  Great colour, keeps well, no doubt bears well, but a complete wash-out flavour-wise, i.m.o.
Rob from Sydney, M4 seedling is in Australia.   We have a couple of trees, but they haven't  flowered for us yet.  I don't know if anyone else has fruited it.   Hopefully the M4 seedling is nucellar.  If it
is a zygotic seedling, it shouldn't be sold as M4, obviously.   Not that any horticultural standards apply in Australia anymore.  The recent  monoembryonic Zill hybrids that you and others are paying big
 money for were grown from imported seed, then trees were grafted using scions from those seedlings.   They shouldn't be sold as named cultivars.    The older Florida cultivars were imported as scionwood or grafted trees. but not the newer Zill hybrids.  I posted more info on this here last year, on another thread.
Re. Mangifera casturi  : Unless space is of no concern,check out if it fruits near Sydney.  We're just west of Innisfail, but at 1,000 metres altitude.   Our Mangifera casturi (grafted on indica ) is v. healthy, over 25 years old, and has never flowered.   Mangifera odorata fruits well every couple of years.

Apparently Mallika can have problems with internal breakdown? I know KP stays good for a long time, another reason I love it.
Do you know where I can buy a grafted M4 mango?
Mangifera Casturi - How tall is yours, is it a seedling, and where did you buy it?
And is Mangifera Orodata a very nice fruit? Is it worth growing?
Thanks a lot for your help.

Daleys nursery uses Oak Leaf Papaya as a rootstock.
Here is their page in the oak leaf papaya: https://www.daleysfruit.com.au/buy/oak-leaved-papaya-tree.htm?srsltid=AfmBOorLGAfZdAeOqqa8oYiUtO-qT4vFuBhhRbr32zSW67eh8YhO8am_
Biodome tour video (mentioned at 45s): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZKxEjN5C_k

Hope I can help!

Yum! Good on ya!
Your Luc's looks delicious, and I'm sure it would have been a very satisfying harvest.

This week, I have 2 shipments of seeds coming in (Lucky me! I haven't had one for more than half a year!), including about ~2 dozen kinds of seeds, including the Mysterious Mulchi.

There isn't much information out there on the Mulchi, and very few have fruited it.
Plinia Inflata is a very intriguing specie, and because of this seeds out very fast. When Bellamytrees of Anderson Tropicals get them in, they sellout sometimes within days. Anderson Tropicals has 4 left in stock, and after checking my emails they got them in a few days short a month ago. This might be the first time ever Mulchi have stayed in stock for over a month.

Do you grow Mulchi?
If you do, then I'd like to make this thread about your growing experiences. I doesn't matter if your seedling is half a decade old or half a month old, you've still learnt something, and it is worth sharing.
Here are some questions going through my mind that would be nice to answer:
How fast do they grow?
What is the best way to germinate them?
What do and don't they like? Direct sun? Humidity when young etc..?
Are they hardy or sensitive?
Are they attacked by pests and/or diseases?
Are they moisture loving?
Do they love fertiliser?
Do they like to flower before holding fruit?
Do they grow bushy or upright?
And lastly... Can they tolerate the cold???

Any experiences would be helpful, so please share them!
Thank you for your help!

Nope on Haden. If you want a vigorous mango tree with classic flavor, plant Valencia Pride instead of Haden.

Coconut Cream is the most delicious mango I've ever eaten, my favorite. Growing the tree is an absolute nightmare. The limbs go all over the place, the tree doesn't like being pruned, it is very reluctant to flower, and it doesn't bear a lot of fruit unless the stars align just right. My 4 year old tree has not fruited yet. A nursery grower near me has three ten year old Coconut Cream trees that give him just a handful of fruit each year. If that sounds appealing, then have at it 

I would plant Cac instead of Nam Doc Mai. I think Rose Creek has it listed as Cat Chu. A vigorous, productive tree with delicious fruit.

The trio of citrus mangoes are all distinct in flavor and disease resistance. You can tell them apart blindfolded by taste. Orange Sherbet is probably the most dependable producer, but with your limited options I would plant all 3. They fruit at different times too.

From the stock list at Rose Creek:

• Little Gem
• Cat Chu
• Fruit Punch
• Valencia Pride
• Nam Doc Mai (with your limited options, might as well plant it)
• Cotton Candy
• Sweet Tart
• Lemon Zest
• Lemon Meringue
• Orange Sherbet
• Pickering

See if you can find some Indonesian people in your area and find out where they get their mango trees. I would skip the old Australian varieties that everybody else in your area is growing - what's the point? The recent Zill varieties are mindblowing compared to the old school stuff named after people.

A few question/comments on what you've said, Coconut Cream:
-What's wrong with Haden? Is the flavour bad, are the problems with the tree or production? Please, if you know, go into detail. I have heard of Valencia Pride, I
-Coconut Cream - Oh well. I can't get M4, so I have no choice! From what you've said, it sounds like it needs improvement. Coconut Cream X a variety with a bit of coconut
  flavour, good vigour and production would be a good breeding project. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody is already doing it.
-If you or anybody could do a comparison of the 'citrus mangoes', that would be really nice. I just can't find much about it on the internet. It's interesting that they're all distinct.
-What does the Fruit Punch Mango taste like?
-Is the old 'Turpentine' any good?
-Regarding the indonesian comment - I don't have many living in my area, but about an hour away is a place called Cabramatta. It's jam packed with Vietnamese. I've been there before early last year, but never to look for anything particular. I will get a chance to go back in a month, and I think I'll take it.
Thank you, Coconut Cream.

Quote from: Coconut Cream on March 04, 2025, 06:36:42 AM

See if you can find some Indonesian people in your area and find out where they get their mango trees. I would skip the old Australian varieties that everybody else in your area is growing - what's the point? The recent Zill varieties are mindblowing compared to the old school stuff named after people.

There is a huge cultural element that is not discussed on this forum, people have fruited some of these zill varieties here such as lemon zest and orange sherbert, fruit punch etc, when compared in a group side by side with KP nearly all still favour KP.  One guy I know was so disappointed with his fruit punch that he is cutting it out.

The Aussie mango's such as KP, Honey gold, Calypso, R2E2 etc have been selected with similar flavour to KP because that's what Aussies prefer.  Just because "experts" such as Alex and such don't rate KP or Aussie mangoes don't mean a thing, he also doesn't like Durian so that tells me all I need to know when listening to his taste recommendations.

In saying that I have an orange sherbert in my yard just to compare to local selections.  Mango is a large commercial operation in Australia with a lot of government input likely far exceeding anything happening in Florida. Whilst selections are made here for commercial purposes they are still excellent tasting.

I found a really good Honey Gold to be about equal to a Kensington Pride, but from memory it was a little less tangy and Fibrous.
R2E2 I hate. I hate the texture, and I hate the flavour. It's got zero tang and low sweetness.
Calypso is like a Kensington but inferior to it in every way. Less tang, less sweetness, less flavour - but it did have more colour - not that it really matters to a homegrower.
Keitt is nearly as good as Kensington, and has a similar flavour, and starts fruiting (commercially) as soon as Kensingtons start to come to an end.
I like that new 'Maha Bliss', and I reckon it is equal, if not a teeny bit better (hate to admit it!) than KP.

What do you do you think of any Florida selections that you have tasted, Gone Tropo? Has your orange sherbet fruited?

I find it really interesting finding out about the difference in Mango preferences between Aussies and Americans. At the end of the day, I want to try as many interesting mangoes as I can, and if I don't like them I can just top work them (and grow more varieties!).
And interesting point: Could the reason that there have been so many mango varieties bred and introduced in Florida be that when mangoes first went commercial, people were dissatisfied with the Tommy Atkins, and wanted better mangoes, and that desire to breed better mangoes never faded? Here in Australia, from my understanding KP was the first commercial mango, and from the start people loved. Why breed tonnes of new varieties when you have already found 'the best'?

Just a few comments/questions:

Haden Mango: Isn't this mango a parent/grandparent/greatgrandparent of most Florida mangoes? The reason Haden was on my mind was because if it has so many descendants, it must be a good mango with good traits. Something about it must be special?

Coconut Cream: M4 is not in Australia yet. I'd love to know more about Coconut Cream, though, especially the full flavour and texture.

Which is the best asian type mango? If Nam Doc Mai is lacking depth of flavour (fair enough, but it still pretty good), what is a better asian mango variety? Kwan, perhaps? King thai?

Again, the 'citrus mangoes' - Lemon Meringue, Orange Sherbert, and Lemon Zest - are they all equal, or are they all distinct, or is there a best one? I have taken not about LZ's 'issues'.


Almost all Mangoes grown in my area are Kensington Prides, and maybe the odd R2E2.

A lot of Florida mangoes I can't get. Honey Kiss, Pina Colada, Buttercream, to name a few are all not in AUZ. There are 2 places I can buy trees that make up all of the varieties availiable to me:
https://www.rosscreektropicals.com.au/collections/mango - Ross Creek Tropicals have a lot of imported varieties
https://www.daleysfruit.com.au/fruit%20pages/mango.htm?srsltid=AfmBOooawk4b3ffLVK7LORFbX1gT3E2Gy1uJi6rd7R6RYCJZU5Mtft7I - Daleys have more Aussie varieties

Thank you all for your help.

Also for illama leave them atleast one year before planting them

I would say otherwise - You've taken that out of context. From memory it was forum member Spaugh who said that if you leave your ilama seeds for a year, they'll germinate right away. He wasn't saying you have to, but that if you struggle to germinate ilama you can store the seeds for easy germination.

Luckily, most seeds sites buy lots of reticulatas (Mexi Custarapple) and macroprophyllatas (Ilamas) and just store them while they wait for them to sell. I know that Anderson Tropicals has had some of the same Mexi Custardapple and Ilama stock in for quite a while, so when you buy them they have already waited for a while!

The reason they germinate best after being stored for a long time is because they are native to seasonally dry areas, and after the fruits are gobbled up the seeds sit around, waiting for the wet season to come.

In a few months I will be planting a food forest, after I finish my apple/pear/stonefruit orchard (5/28 trees planted).
For the time being, I'm in the planning stage. I've given lots of thought to tree spacing and paths, and now I'd like to think about cultivars/varieties of fruit.
I know I want Longans, Lychees, Black Sapote, Avocado, Annonas, Eugenias, Tamarillo, Passionfruit, Jaboticaba, Jackfruit, Garcinias, Ice cream beans, payayas, bananas, eugenias, carambolas, star apples, and many others, including everyone's favourite: The Mango!

These are the my favourites:
Kensington Pride. My favourite and the favourite of almost every Australian.
Maha Chanok. A very good asian variety with a different flavour and beautiful orange flesh.
Keitt. A very good late variety. Although it's really good, it's inferior to KP.

I'm in the process of deciding what other cultivars to grow, and I'd love some help. And here are some ones that I've been thinking about:
Lemon Meringue/Orange Sherbert/Lemon Zest
Mangifera Kasturi - Supposed to have a good spicy flavour
Choc Annon/Carabao
Asian Type e.g Nam Doc Mai
Brooks Late
Coconut Cream
Haden
Irwin (aka Mizayaki?)
Sweet Tart
Senstation
Zill

I'd love some information on what everyone grows, and loves, and what you think of the above varieties.
Information of Flavour, Texture, Growing habit, Fruit size, Fruit quality, etc would be really nice.
Thank you!

Quote from: zwanif on March 01, 2025, 05:13:21 AM

Quote from: Rob From Sydney on March 01, 2025, 04:28:41 AM

zwanif, it looks like you Mameys are just getting too much direct sunlight. Move them to a shadier position, and they should do better, and the new foliage will be more green and lush.

When I had my abiu seedlings in full sun, their leaves just went yellow-ish. When I moved then into half sun/half shade, they started to do better, some have pushed some new, green growth, but the new leaves just aren't really growing and are staying small. After all this thought about them, tomorrow I will move them to a shadier postion that recieves 1/4 to 1/3 sun. They should do better.

My newly sprouted Mamey seedling is growing in an area that receives a little afternoon sun, I reckon 1-2 hours of direct sunlight. I will tell you know it does in the next couple of weeks.

Here is the photo of your Mamey. I got it on postimage, everyone should be able to see it now.

thanks

I changed them for a place where they get sun only for 3 hours or 4 and let's see now..... Let's give it one week and then see what's happens

You're welcome. In a week the seedling should be happier, but it won't show it. When it starts to flush with new growth, then you will see real improvements. Happy gardening!

This thread is funny because people are basing their opinions on trying something once or twice and thinking it sucks. I know what you guys mean in these descriptions and then I have tried a different cultivar somewhere else and it totally changed my opinion after having life changing Caimito, rollinia, canistel, macombo, muntingia, and others can all be really really good , even though they can also be just as y’all described.

So true. This happens the most with canistel. A good canistel is incredible; a moist flesh with a rich, beautiful yet unusual taste. But a bad canistel is disgusting - vomit material. A lot of people try bad canistels and say that they are rubbish.

Quote from: RS on February 25, 2025, 08:36:35 AM

Thai jujube. Lara Farms recently had the fruit for sale, very glad I didn't plant this one after trying it.

My thoughts exactly, RS! The Jujubes were stomach-turning. Bitter and nearly inedible at any stage of ripeness. When they got more brown they turned soft and putrid.

I would rather eat a June Plum and that's saying something!

Here in Australia, jujube are grown commercially, and they are great. A syrup-y apple flavour, with a bit of tang. I love them.

Cantaloupes and yellow watermelon. These melons are tasteless.

Grow your own cantaloupe of yellow watermelon. The ones at the supermarket can be just aweful. Like a cucumber, just a little sweeter but with less flavour. If you grow them yourself and get the hang of it, they can be really good. My brother grew a really nice "Mountain Sweet Yellow" watermelon this season, and it was one of the best melons I have ever had.

Mamey sapote for sure... I could barely stomach the only one I tried (though in fairness it was an old import in bad shape). Also not had good experiences with longans. But I love lychee and rambutans. Also some white dragon fruit are pretty unremarkable

Commercial longans can be really good, but they can also be really really bad. Just depends of how fresh they are.
And as for Mamey - they are pretty rich, and from what I have heard they are an acquired taste and those who have eaten many love them. They grow on you.