Will vinegar acidify soil enough for miracle berries?

[PitangatubaMoray]

The title (Mostly) speaks for itself, But I have read that vinegar can acidify soil, for plants like blueberries and Azaleas. Is this true, and if yes, does it work for miracle berries? if not, what are some alternatives? (And for argument's sake, let's assume that Peat and perlite are NOT an option) 

[simon_grow]

Yes, it will work as will lemon juice but it’s best if you use something that is specifically made for lowering pH. I recommend Phosphoric acid. The byproduct of its degradation can be used by the plants and it has more buffering capacity than acetic acid.

I would recommend pelleted soil sulfur which will break down slowly and lose the pH over a longer period of time.

Simon

[achetadomestica]

I was thinking about lowering the ph of my water that I use to
give my jaboticabas. What I did was I got some cheap strips and
tested my water. I was aiming for 5-6 and I started around 7.
I was amazed how much vinegar I had to add. I think it was 2-3 oz per gallon.

I didn't follow through with applying the lower ph water. One day I will
plant 20 seeds and do some experimenting with some different groups.
Jabo seedlings have been tough for me

[brian]

I didn't realize miracle berries require acid soil.  That might explain why mine is a bit yellow. 

I normally add "garden sulfur" to my blueberries.

[Vernmented]

I use elemental sulfur for soil and battery acid (sulfuric acid) from the auto parts store for acidifying my well water once it is pumped into my tanks.

[Tropheus76]

Or you can just use that Hydrangea acidifier they sell at HD. Worked great for me on mine. I need to pick up some more for this year.

[Daintree]

I acidify my water with pH Down from the hydroponics store.  To lower the pH from 8 to 6.5, it takes me 2-3 cups for my 175 gallon pond.  I tried vinegar, but with regular vinegar I had to add almost a whole gallon for 175 gallons.  Then I tried horticultural vinegar, and it takes about the same amount as the pH Down, only here at least, the pH Down is cheaper, so I have stayed with that. 
I also use a quick acting sulphur that I top dress with every so often.  It is Espoma Organic Soil Acidifier that I get at Home Depot, and has dosages for pots, which I really like.
Then, when I pot my baby Miracle Berry bushes up, I use a fast-draining soil mix that uses peat moss and not coco coir, since coco coir can have a higher pH than peat moss.
So far, mine are doing awesome, and I get so many fruits that I can't give them away fast enough.  Once people have experienced the "party trick", then the novelty is gone and they don't usually want more.  So I just eat them by the handful while working in my greenhouse.

Cheers,
Carolyn

[Acetogenin]

have heard vinegar breaks down in soil and pH reverts back to normal.  I would use hydroponic pH down

[SeaWalnut]

I use liquid smoke- wood vinegar ( pyroligneous acid) wich is mainly humic and fulvic acid.

[brian]

I have a bottle of pool ph down granules - Sodium Bisulfate

Is this of any use for plants?  If not I will toss it, I don't have a pool anymore

[SeaWalnut]

have heard vinegar breaks down in soil and pH reverts back to normal.  I would use hydroponic pH down

Vinegar ,because its organic it breaks down by bacteria that uses it like a carbon source.
Adding vinnegar its like adding sugar and it will increase the nitrogen in the same way nitrogen fixing plants exude sugars through their roots .

[SeaWalnut]

I have a bottle of pool ph down granules - Sodium Bisulfate

Is this of any use for plants?  If not I will toss it, I don't have a pool anymore

I wouldnt use that.

[Daintree]

I have a bottle of pool ph down granules - Sodium Bisulfate

Is this of any use for plants?  If not I will toss it, I don't have a pool anymore

I have always been afraid to use that, knowing that it is not made for plants.

Carolyn

[pineislander]

The original poster didn't expound on the sort of soil he is working with. Some soils are hard to acidify, others easier, some containing much carbonates or lime nearly impossible. Alternatives would be container mixes not native soils.

[PitangatubaMoray]

The original poster didn't expound on the sort of soil he is working with. Some soils are hard to acidify, others easier, some containing much carbonates or lime nearly impossible. Alternatives would be container mixes not native soils.

I have some sphagnum peat moss(unknown if Canadian, "Miracle grow") Perlite, and (some) sand for draining. However, I was curious if there were other ways to acidify soil.  (Hence saying "Assume Peat moss and Perlite are off the table). I only reason I asked this question was that the PH meter I got said my soil was neutral,despite using the "Perfect miracle berry soil mix"(and damping the soil a bit), as some would call it. Any advice?

[SeaWalnut]

What ph meter did you used?

[PitangatubaMoray]

This:




Although I now use some leftover soil that has peat (Mix of commerical soil and other things, mostly neutral) in it(I have 3 Mberries)

[SeaWalnut]

This:




Although I now use some leftover soil that has peat (Mix of commerical soil and other things, mostly neutral) in it(I have 3 Mberries)

Thats an awfull ph meter.Its good for humidity but for measuring the ph its total garbage.
Keep it just for measuring humidity and buy turnesol paper to measure ph or a ph meter that has glass electrode( needs to be adjusted when you first buy it ).
Rapitest soil ph test with pills its also good.

[K-Rimes]

Having experimented with vinegar and PH Down - vinegar is basically useless.

Get a proper PH Down product and a pipette. My 8.1ph water goes down to 6.0 with just 1ml of PH Down from Advanced Nutrients. Can get down to 4.0 for blueberries / miracle berry using 3ml. These PH down products that use phosphoric acid have a use in the fertilizer schedule, acetic acid not so much.

[KarenRei]

This:




Although I now use some leftover soil that has peat (Mix of commerical soil and other things, mostly neutral) in it(I have 3 Mberries)

Looking at that thing brings back bad memories.  I once killed a lot of plants by trusting the pH readings on a meter like that.

Get a proper pH meter.    The type that you have to keep the electrodes moist.  Don't skimp, get a good one.  Clean the electrodes after each use before storage.  Replace the electrodes if they ever go bad.  Calibrate regularly with fresh acid and neutral solution, and don't reuse your calibration solutions.

I recommend sulfuric acid for lowering pH.    Doesn't mess with your phosphorus ratio like phosphoric acid does (though if you *know* you need phosphorus, then sure).  It takes minuscule amounts.  However much you're thinking, well less than that.    You can get it as battery acid or as professional grade drain cleaner.  Phosphoric acid is often sold as floor cleaner.  There will be other additives, but you use such tiny amounts that they shouldn't matter.

[brian]

I have a bunch of Agri-Fos/Garden-Fos - phosphorous acid used to treat phytopthera in citrus.  What about this?

[K-Rimes]

I have a bunch of Agri-Fos/Garden-Fos - phosphorous acid used to treat phytopthera in citrus.  What about this?

You can try anything you want or have - just check your PH afterwards with a (ACCURATE) PH meter.

[brian]

I'm going to do some testing with the phosphorous acid, because I have more than I need and I'm curious...


EDIT -  a couple milliliters of Agri-Fos added to a 2L of tap water changes my PH test strips from orange (neutral) to yellow (acid, unknown PH).  These strips are made for pools so they don't show PH below 6.6

I tried the same with vinegar and that has the same effect, a tiny bit is enough to change the PH reading

[KarenRei]

You can figure out the pH with those strips by taking a sample, diluting it, retesting, diluting, etc until you're no longer under your pH=6,6 limit.

Like I said, it takes *tiny* amounts. 

[brian]

You can figure out the pH with those strips by taking a sample, diluting it, retesting, diluting, etc until you're no longer under your pH=6,6 limit.

Like I said, it takes *tiny* amounts. 

Yup I tried 50ml vinegar to 2L water... came up "acid".  Diluted.. over and over again, still coming up "acid".

Retried and only a teaspoon or less of 5% vinegar to 2L of water changes the reading significantly.