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Messages - 850FL

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Help harvesting pawpaws!
« on: June 19, 2022, 04:06:25 PM »
There are a bunch of asimina parvifloras that I have been keeping an eye on. They are a smaller fruited pawpaw species. But I have no experience judging by skin color on when to harvest..? The fruit are just turning from green to very slightly off-green. Can I harvest in this stage and ripen the fruit? Will thy even ripen like this after being off the tree? I want to get them before the wild creatures do!

Also if anyone has experience with asimina incana as well. Thanks!

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 Citrus glauca
« on: June 19, 2022, 03:34:49 PM »
Do they have HLB resistance?

I think it would be more viable as a rootstock itself rather than being grafted onto something! I have not been able to root these from cuttings,  either.. Not saying it's impossible, but comparatively blueberries are easy. Easiest option for these would be cutting out root suckers. What others in vaccinium are best graft compatible anyway?

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Plum varieties for Zone 9?
« on: May 24, 2022, 04:01:17 PM »
I'm in upper 9a FL. From what I have tried only Santa Rosa and methley survive here well. And Chickasaw, and seedlings, but.. I tried Bruce, yellow, excelsior, and possibly another type or two and they have died.
( excelsior and Bruce may have gotten too shaded. But I honestly don't think that's really what killed them). To be fair the yellows I tried last year may have had some type of gummosis or bacteria when I got them on clearance.. but for ones that I have tried healthy, insects and bacteria/fungus are what usually get them.
I'm trying a bruce again for the heck of it. Will plant it way away from any shade this time!

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Variegated sparkleberry
« on: May 23, 2022, 11:18:18 PM »
Waiting to see a persimmon or paw paw like this haha. Have you seen any like this? Ive been noticing a few other native species mostly weeds lately with that same yellow/green variegation. Could something be to this??

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Variegated sparkleberry
« on: May 23, 2022, 10:36:13 AM »
First one I've seen variegated. They are kind of like gritty blueberries. They runner out so there is a 'clonal' grouping of these.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Dr. Robert Dunstan
« on: May 17, 2022, 07:07:36 PM »
Anyone wonder why when Dunstan came across the last American Chestnut, why did he also not vegetatively propagate it, after he had hybridized it? I'm not saying in mass numbers but enough to go around a bit..

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: New sweet orange?
« on: May 17, 2022, 06:46:47 PM »
starting to think they are probably a trifoliate hybrid not SO..

Cold Hardy Citrus / New sweet orange?
« on: May 17, 2022, 06:28:24 PM »
What is this variety? They are labeled "sweet orange".
They either have sour orange in them, by the thorns.. or maybe have trifoliate, since I did see a single bi-leaf on one of the trees.
Either way they must be a rootstock hybrid? None are grafted or labeled as grafted.. the black mark on the trunk was just where tape was (not a graft).
I hope they are not just a sour orange variety mislabeled!

Looking for a few pounds of queen palm (syagrus) seeds. They are producing now in Florida, and very common in south/central Fl. Preferably in the yellow fruit stage (not green or orange). If you live in Florida and don't know what one is look it up and I'm sure you can find seeds easy! syagrus romanzoffiana

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mexican avocado imports blocked?
« on: February 17, 2022, 02:36:32 PM »
Florida (and California) forum members, plant more avocado trees!  Everybody should have their own trees.

Hardly been worth my effort. Boring bugs, fungus and freezes take out too many in Fl.

You can't rip one root on transplant.
Sorry to hear that, but I still think everybody should give it a shot.  Even though I've been buying Mexican avocados, they're usually crap and the criminal cartels...not good.
I agree and still plant all pits, they're just real finicky and susceptible here and need extra care. Is it like that in South Florida? Do you guys have laurel wilt bad?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mexican avocado imports blocked?
« on: February 17, 2022, 09:46:46 AM »
Florida (and California) forum members, plant more avocado trees!  Everybody should have their own trees.

Hardly been worth my effort. Boring bugs, fungus and freezes take out too many in Fl.

You can't rip one root on transplant.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Seeds Annona coriacea gigante
« on: February 17, 2022, 09:16:13 AM »
What is the lowest temperature the trees can take?

Do you have red and yellow jabos?

Was it a sudden freeze or were they hardened off


I leave a lot of eugenia out in the cold as well. Last year I left my large sabara uncovered down to 28f and it didn't even blink, I did cover it for a 26f spell but will probably leave it out all year long this year no cover. Some of these things are surprisingly hardy!
Small 1-2ft sabaras pulled through 22F just fine last year. I forgot if the tender new growth was even affected or not, I think it wilted. Same freeze stumped almost every single mango, guava, carambola, atemoya, papaya, jack, etc. WI avocados damaged, for reference, but G/M types were fine. However many lychees 3-10x the caliper of those sabaras had major branch splitting. Eugenias are hardy

The title says it. I am looking to buy a bulk order of fresh palm seeds that will have a good germination rate. I don't mind if there's still pulp on the seeds but if it makes it cheaper to ship cleaned than that is alright.. I just want the best success rate possible.

Looking for 100-1,000 seeds of:
1. Silver Queen Palm (Syagrus romanzoffiana var. litoralis)
2. Chilean Wine Palm (Jubaea chilensis)
3. Syagrus x Jubaea
4. Syagrus x Butia
5. Butia x Jubaea
6. Parajubaea hybrids.... 'Parajubaea x (butia or syagrus or phoenix or ceroxylon, etc)'
6. Quindio Wax Palm (Ceroxylon quindiuense)
7. Parajubaea (torallyi, cocoides, sunkha etc)

I will even throw these out there if anybody has a good bulk price, again for seeds:
8. Regular queen palm (Syagrus romanzoffiana)
9. Senegal date palm
10. Canary Island date palm
11. other hardy syagrus species
12. other hardy phoenix species
13. other relevant hybrids  <---- parent sexes do not matter ie 'butia x jubaea' vs 'jubaea x butia'  doesn't really matter
14. any other rare cold tolerant palms (to about -6C)  <--- no palmettos or cabbage

Also willing to trade. Thanks!

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Minneola x Meyer lemon
« on: January 09, 2022, 10:36:10 AM »
It is completely possible. Far more distantly related citrus have been hybridized.
I wasn't too sure about compatibility if most citrus can hybridize freely easily.. I guess they do share pomelo and reticulata genes anyway

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: new thoughts on breeding hardier citrus
« on: January 09, 2022, 10:30:20 AM »
F1 hybrids are usually still quite uniform (if the parents are not already hybrids), F2 are then very broadly spread in their characteristics.
That's what I was pretty much getting at with using pure ones.
Obtaining sweet fruits I think, is more about "less sour" genetics than "higher sugar level "genetics. It seems sourless is often recessive inherited and needs therefor backcrossing
That's useful!

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: new thoughts on breeding hardier citrus
« on: January 08, 2022, 11:53:51 PM »
I think z6 would be almost unfeasible (not impossible) to breed for something really good but could end up with some good selections for z 7 and 8 with y'all's efforts if they live.
I still stand by my above theory with some modifications
['Ponciris+ x mangschanensis' x mangschanensis'] x ['Moro x navel']
With this, there would be beneficial genes floating around for cold hardiness, anthocyanins, low seediness, low bitter, quality fruit, easy peel, tang (hopefully not excessive). Although, other genes for seediness, small fruit, excess sour also present.
You could substitute mangschanensis with another tangerine that is hardy in the teens F I suppose. I guess 'pure' might not matter too much here but don't discredit that purity could have it's place in some aspects of breeding.
Then navel could perhaps be replaced with something else sweet. I would like to be able to replace navel with minneola, sunburst, cara cara, clementine, Kishu, satsumas, if any of those would even work out nicely. Who is to say the relative sweetness in any of those domestics would even be accurately expressed? anyway I think this general set of genetics could create something really good and still quite cold hardy, but I wouldn't count on z6 exactly.. I would predict the F5 or F6 (basically the end product seedlings of all that hybridization) to probably generally withstand zone 7..
Ponciris+ I assume can withstand somewhere around -15 - -20 F
Satsumas low teens F
Minneola mid teens F
Wash navel & cara cara high teens F
Clementine mid teens F
Sunburst 20F
Mangschanensis probably mid to low teens F
Can one predict general cold hardiness for a batch of hybrid seedlings accurately? For example, could 'PT x wash navel' seedlings be predicted to withstand around 0F since average cold hardiness -20+19/2= -2? I realize cold hardiness traits are inherited not averaged but can it generally be predicted to work out like this with most cold hardy citrus hybrids?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: new thoughts on breeding hardier citrus
« on: January 08, 2022, 11:01:11 PM »
The mangchanensis are from the zone 9 mountains close to zone 8. I think the Changsha are probably from right around there too. They are obscure wild mandarins but look cold hardy like Changsha. You could use a 'mang x PT' and breed that rudimentary with something sweet like perhaps navel orange or hybrid something and it would definitely be cold hardy (maybe not quite to z6.. but perhaps some seedlings?) and have pure tangerine genetics involved. Mangschanansis apparently contain the same amount of sugars but more citric acid than most domestic mandarins, according to this article -
- and also contain 'abundant healthy phenolic compounds and antioxidants'. I personally like zangy mandarins and mandarin hybrids. They are actually by far my favorite citrus. I don't like just sweet and bland like some satsumas are, at least the ones grown around here. The tommy Atkins trees of citrus. Almost like wasted space and effort with some of them. The intense tangy mandarins are a lot more nutritious. Clementine is great but even more tang would be better. Just not so sour as say a Calamondin or lime so it's still enjoyable. It would be cool to even have purple flesh with anthocyanin benefits, so blood oranges could replace navel with that theoretical hybrid. I think Moro is the sweetest? I do enjoy sweet but accompanied by a lot of tang. Y'all's ponciris+ could be the PT in that hybrid to get rid of the nasty. So I stand by
['ponciris+ x (good mang selection)'  x  'Moro x minneola' ]
Or replace minneola with navel or something sweet. Even satsuma. I just like tangelos.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Regrown variegated seedlings
« on: January 08, 2022, 09:40:53 PM »
I would like to think that in this avocado the variegation is more likely a random mutation and not inherited? Since it is at least half Hass and probably the other half Hass or Fuerte (common pollinator) neither of which are variegated.. but maybe something else pollinated it.. or even the pollinator had recessive variegation genes that weren't obvious.
Variegation must be inherited in some cases like centennial kumquat.
Or could it have inherited some kinds of factors in genes that  would allow  a mutation and how could it even grow out of it? By changing its own dna?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: This this Geffner Atemoya or rootstock???
« on: January 08, 2022, 06:02:31 PM »
Looks above the graft to me. Wood looks lighter below the graft. Let the two sticks get a little thicker and then compare with the lower wood. Or if it suckers from the lower trunk let the sucker grow a few mature leaves and then compare them to the rest of the plant's leaves. Should give an indication..

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Regrown variegated seedlings
« on: January 08, 2022, 05:56:47 PM »
I have a seedling Hass that came up quite variegated, put out a set of variegated leaves, then died back to a stump, then came back with a couple sets of normal leaves EXCEPT the veins are white and this is the only indication it's even variegated. I don't get it. It's not grafted so why is it doing this?
I believe I read this happened to another plant somewhere as well

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: new thoughts on breeding hardier citrus
« on: January 08, 2022, 05:34:12 PM »
Keraji, Changsha, Kishu...
Anybody consider hybridising PT with mangshanensis mandarins, and other pure lineages (not necessarily just pure mandarins, but with any pure citrus?) Maybe utilizing pure genes would be helpful in some respect, like less ambiguity related to the prediction and expression of gene sets? Whereas the expression of genes of the progeny from say, a 'complex-hybrid x PT-hybrid' would be quite a lot less predictable?
At least, perhaps 'pure x PT' hybrids could be used as F1 parents for further hybridising.. Anybody catch that drift or am I delusional?
Also, saw a video where citrus breeders grow their hybrid seedlings pretty much as straight sticks to induce the earliest possible flowering (as opposed to bushy w/ side branches). In case you may have not known.. cuts down time.. although I don't know if this applies to all citrus types..

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