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Messages - NateTheGreat

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Yeah that doesn't look right. Why would it be 5/8/9... and not 5/6/7/8/9...? It looks like they're native to the mountainous southern China and northern Vietnam at around 850m. From what I've read that area doesn't get that cold, probably somewhere around -2 C or so annual low. From what I've read loquat (japonica) grows in Seattle, but only sometimes sets fruit there, and that's 8b, almost 9a. If I were you, I'd be looking for one with a native range farther north. Seems like Eriobotrya hookeriana or Eriobotrya petiolata might have potential, as they're from the eastern Himalayas. I see hookeriana is reported to grow in a city called Trongsa. From the climate data there: it looks like they dip into the teens (F), so maybe like -8C? It can probably take a bit below that, but maybe not 14C, to get to 7a.

If you're just looking for rootstock, quince works and is hardy below 7a, but from what I've read the loquat flowers wouldn't set fruit if they freeze.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: couple of ID's please...
« on: November 14, 2018, 11:52:36 PM »
The first looks like a Eugenia to me. Maybe uniflora.

Edit: Actually maybe more like involucrata

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Kadsura Coccinea
« on: November 10, 2018, 01:49:16 PM »
This is my K. japonica:

K. heteroclita planted in-ground, was under shade cloth all summer:

K. heteroclita in pot, got hit by caterpillars pretty hard:

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Kadsura Coccinea
« on: November 05, 2018, 10:14:11 AM »
I tried for a while and was unable to get seeds. I have two other Kadsura species, but they haven't done all that well in my care. I think my humidity may be too low.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: October 06, 2018, 01:30:57 PM »

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: October 06, 2018, 12:03:37 PM »
Any idea whether this is ready to pick? It's a bruni that flowered in early July. I pollinated it with Selenicereus grandiflorus pollen, the self-pollinated ones didn't set. I read bruni was supposed to have tiny green fruits ( ), but this one just kept going. It's looked like this for at least a month now. I figured it would start to split when the time came, but the end where the flower was has started to shrivel just a bit, and if anything it looks like it might be getting a bit greener. The underside has turned more pink than the side exposed to the sun, which seems backwards to me.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Leaf Scorch?
« on: October 06, 2018, 10:56:45 AM »
I'd think the leaves would be lighter green if they were getting excessive sun.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: September 05, 2018, 11:25:20 PM »
I got them this spring, so I can't say for sure whether they got chill hours last winter, but I'm pretty confident they did.  That one was the biggest and had tiny buds on it, which opened after I planted it. The weather's been cooling off so I think the trees are less stressed, and I did just give them a thin layer of chicken manure, so I can understand why it might seem like a good time to flower if I were a tree, but I didn't think it could just flower whenever. Also it's on this year's growth, so technically this section of the tree didn't get chill hours. Or maybe it doesn't work that way. I don't think I'll get to see if it can hold fruit over the winter though, since this is the only one flowering.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: September 03, 2018, 12:11:13 PM »

I thought my pawpaw was just setting buds for the spring, but this one definitely looks like it's opening now. This tree flowered this spring as well, though only three flowers. Is this normal, and if not, does anyone know why? The spring flowers didn't set fruit.

To be honest the taste is not that great IMO.  Its kind of like a sweet avocado.

And I thought I had just tried a bad variety. Like a not very creamy avocado, with a mild sweetness?

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: WTB Schizandra
« on: May 09, 2018, 11:48:27 AM »

I got some pawpaws from them and was very disappointed in the size of the plants they sent me (2 gal plant had a definite 4" rootball), but they do have them.

Trees or fruit? They're in season in the fall IIRC, so you wouldn't be able to get fruit for some months.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Excalibur chempadek
« on: February 26, 2018, 05:02:04 PM »
Maybe they propagated Coconut's Jackfruit 'Boca orange snob', incorrectly labeled it as a chempedak, and dropped part of the name? That would explain the Boca, and Coconut mentioned in that thread that he was friends with Richard at Excalibur.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First Frost of the year
« on: February 21, 2018, 12:25:07 PM »
Went to bed in the East Bay expecting the forecasted 32F, woke up to 26F. Amazingly little seems to have died (even some dragonfruits I left out on the patio). Eugenia candolleana didn't even drop its leaves. Hopefully the coming weeks don't reveal more casualties.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Feijoa flowering (greenhouse)
« on: February 01, 2018, 11:37:47 AM »
I think I've left some on the counter for two or three weeks and eaten them after. They keep ripening off the tree, and in my opinion the quality goes down as they ripen. They get gooey and lose their acidity.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fruit ID in San Diego
« on: January 24, 2018, 11:12:41 PM »
Psidium eugeniaefolia?

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Wanted: Kadsura
« on: December 20, 2017, 02:18:39 PM »
Hi, has Kadsura longipedunculata and Kadsura japonica plants.  They are in South Carolina.

Thank you Mr. Monkeyfish. Those don't look all that good for eating, but I think I'll order some in the spring still.

I did get my hands on some supposed K. Coccinea seeds, and found a nursery in the USA that sells K. Heteroclita, but it seems like there's a lot of varieties based on the fruit colors I've seen in pictures labeled k. Coccinea, so I'm still interested in seeds or plants from other sources.

Simon, I apologize for taking so much of your time. I didn't mean to give you the burden of providing proof, just trying to figure out if anyone has a giant and a normal growing and fruiting together. At this time, it sounds like the answer is no, but you may soon. For the record, I hope that a giant variety exists.

Finally going through those links today Simon. I disagree that these show what you say they show. In the one with five specimins of S. megalanthus from commercial plantations in Colombia and Ecuador, it says, "Fruit of S. megalanthus (80–300 g) are much lighter than Hylocereus spp. (200–800 g)." There is even a section, "Possible cause of low fruit mass in S. megalanthus", which suggests it may be caused by too few of the ovules developing into viable seeds (8.7% with self-polination, 9.7% with H. polyrhizus pollen, 5.4% with H. undatus pollen, and 17.9% with S. megalanthus pollen), and that the fruit flesh may develop from the viable seeds only. I don't see anywhere in here, or in any of the others you posted, that says there is actually a difference in fruit between Colombian and Ecuadorian genetics, or that either of these are different than the wild (common) form.

It really sounds to me like those researchers took cuttings from commercial plantations in South America, grew the fruit, and didn't have any fruit over 300g. I'll also add that if they just have better pollen, like some Selenicereus species that's closer to megalanthus maybe, that caused 30% or 40% of the ovules to develop, that sounds like it could cause the fruit from South America to be giant.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« on: December 18, 2017, 12:20:02 PM »
Iím not sure if this is legit, but itís an interesting concept. Seedlings grafted onto mature stems.

I experimented with this with an ornamental epicactus cross I did last year (Aporocactus x Aporophyllum) and grafted the seedlings a bit further along. My grafts didn't take. Maybe if I used a humidity chamber or used Vaseline to keep in the moisture, but this year I'm just going to wait longer. I think I did five. For most I cut just above the cotyledons, but I know I did at least one with cotyledons attached as shown, and one where I grafted the roots on, since some people said that had worked for them. None of these took.

I've probably done two dozen attempts at grafting epicacti. In that time I think I've had two real successes, which were both on S. grandiflorus with all the areoles removed from the stock. When I haven't removed the areoles, it would just keep pushing out of the base. I've done probably a half dozen grafts onto Hylocereus, never had any success with that. Some of that's technique (or lack thereof).

I think that picture is fake. Even if you managed to graft a seedling with only cotyledons, those don't look like DF cotyledons to me, the seedling's too big, and the callus looks odd. Here's what a S. megalanthus seedling looks like next to a mature (undatus) cutting:

You'll note the woody vascular bundle. Because of that one generally grafts to young growth. I think the main way to graft to H. undatus, like they do for the chlorophyll-lacking cacti, is to cut off a 4-6" new shoot of undatus, graft onto that, root, and once it's got roots on it cut away the areoles. Doing this though means you can't graft onto a huge piece. I've tried doing this without cutting the young undatus piece off, and cutting a few feet of mature growth with it, but the grafts didn't take at all. The pictured piece is from one of those experiments, which is why I have it lying around.

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Wanted: Kadsura
« on: December 17, 2017, 11:08:17 PM »
Thank you both. Annonaceae, is there somewhere I could read more about these growing in QLD? I know very little about this plant.

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Wanted: Kadsura
« on: December 16, 2017, 01:15:55 PM »
Looking for seeds of Kadsura coccinea, or similar Kadsuras, shipped to California, USA.

It looks like the Vietnamese name is Quả Na Rừng. Here is an article about it with pictures: It says there are two types, red and white. I think the white ones have green skin and the red have red skin, but Google Translate isn't perfect. This says 150-1200m elevation, but I've read from Chinese sources it is higher, like 1500-2000 (don't remember exactly). Seems to be native to southern China and northern Vietnam. These articles say it is foraged from deep within the forests, but I've seen pictures of commercial plantings as well. From this article, it sounds like it's not traditionally considered medicinal nor valuable in Vietnam, but the Chinese have recently been buying it from locals for their traditional medicines, leading to scarcity:

From what I've read from Vietnamese sources it grows as a vine before becoming a 15-20m tree. Based on the regions it grows in, I suspect it could grow in areas with mild frost like Northern California, although it may not be able to handle our summers. Only one way to find out.

Thanks for all the links Simon. I haven't gone through them in depth yet, but it sounds like you may have proven me wrong. The one with the hybrids is from the Israeli university I mentioned. Have you tried grafting to speed yours up? I have one megalanthus grafted onto S. grandiflorus, which seems to be growing more vigorously than my ungrafted ones, though it did take a bit over a year to push new growth, not sure what that was about. The piece I grafted is only about an inch long, possibly less, so you could make a bunch of grafts if you wanted to. I'm going to try grafting some of my seedlings once they're a few months old to Schlumbergera.

Nate, try searching scholarly articles for S/H Megalanthus. There is an article talking about the development of the giant Fruit.


I have already read through many of the papers that show up on Google Scholar, including those from the university in Israel that is working to develop commercially viable dragonfruit, and those that are searching for the origin of H. undatus. Can you please just post the article you're talking about? I've spent many hours already researching this subject, so telling me to do some research isn't very helpful. If you don't want to spend the time to find the article, could you just tell me if you or anyone has actually shown one of these fruiting outside a commercial plantation in Taiwan/South America? You said you knew from personal experience this one flowers later. Does that mean yours flowered?

Does anyone actually know if these aren't just standard megalanthus grown in better conditions? Simon, how do you know these flower later, and is it possible it's just due to growing conditions? Megalanthus are very finicky. It wouldn't surprise me if they fruit much bigger when they're in their native environment, which I think is equatorial highlands.

Nate, the Megalanthus flowers much later and I know this from personal experience and from literature. The info is easy to find if you do a search. Also, there are different selections of the Megalanthus and their appearance is very noticeable. Take a look at the pictures I posted with the gian next to a regular Megalanthus. The regular has fine that are closely spaced and are ovoid in shape where as the selected large Megalanthus is rounder and has spaced fins.

Iíve posted several threads with pictures of various selections of the giant Megalanthus including the ones that started the giant Yellow Megalanthus craze when I post about the giant fruit I found in Hong Kong about ten years ago.

I also have a post about Megalanthus crosses but youíll have to do a search to find it.

You can get slightly larger fruit with good culture but youíll get much larger fruit if you start with good genetics.


Thanks for the response Simon. I did search though, quite extensively in the past. I believe The New Cactus Lexicon is the definitive literary resource on Cactacae, and this distinction is not in there. Their picture of megalanthus fruit actually looks like a red undatus x megalanthus hybrid. And although there are many sources online claiming the existence of a giant version, I haven't seen anything definitive or scientific.

I searched through the most recent hundred threads you started, and all I found related to this was pictures from September 2015 of seedlings you were growing. Have you fruited these in the two years since? You may have posted pictures of fruit you bought ten years ago, but that wouldn't prove anything in and of itself, since the role of genetics in their size is unknown. I don't know Leo Manuel, maybe that is a name I should know, but I don't. Have either you or him fruited the giant yellow?

As for the fins, I don't think it is proof that the smaller one has more closely-spaced fins. What if it were to expand to twice the volume? The skin and fins would stretch out, making them further apart, and changing their shape slightly. It looks to me like in your comparison picture they both have about the same amount of fins/areoles, and in basically the same pattern.

It seems very strange to me that an improved version would exist (for at least ten years as you say), which this guy in San Diego (I googled his name and found an interview video) was growing, yet everybody else in the USA was growing the inferior version, and over all this time the improved version, which apparently grows true to seed, has not spread throughout the community. And it just happens to be the most difficult type of dragonfruit to keep happy. I hope you understand where I'm coming from and don't take this for insolence. I planted some of these seeds as well, but I suspect if I get them to fruit, it will be standard megalanthus (which would then leave the question of whether they're simply not true to seed...).

Edit: And the guy in your thread ( ) who was saying they are real and he is importing cuttings from South America is now selling seeds, which look (or looked... I thought there was a picture before) like the ones that have been showing up in SoCal stores, and which he just so happened to start offering for sale when they started showing up in stores ( ). Two years ago he was offering seeds for sale as well ( ), which he claimed gave true to seed thornless (!) fruit. Maybe I'm just being a conspiracy theorist here. Maybe he is importing direct as he says. It wouldn't be surprising that he gets the fruit at the same time the fruit stores do, but like I keep saying, the whole thing just seems really fishy to me.

Edit 2: This guy's explanation ( ) sounds believable to me, but of course is unproven as well. "I think the fruit you show us is not a different variety of yellow dragon, but a fruit obtained from different technique of cultivation. In Taiwan , the yellow dragon is grafted onto undatus or costarricensis rootstock, giving to the skinny megalanthus a strong and resistant root system. That grafted plants fruits are 250 to 500 g. True giants yellow dragons come from natural hybridization , and are usually between Ecuador and Peru . The diferences with common megalanthus, besides bigger size and production,  is its genetic. The fruits are rounder and smoth in Ecuatorian type and -round-oblong and with very short scales in Peru."

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