Author Topic: Achachairu fruits for first time  (Read 18293 times)

fruitlovers

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2014, 11:06:08 PM »
Tried making a drink from the rind of achachairu fruits, like they do in Bolivia. Used two fruit rinds, diced up in small squares in a 16 oz. glass of water. Let it sit overnight in the fridge and add a bit of sweetener. Was very nice, the water turned a dark orange color, and had a good refreshing quality about it and nice fragrance.
Oscar

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2017, 02:50:22 AM »
Been eating lots of achachairus this year. I'm going to have to reasses their fruit quality. They are awesome! Just as good, or maybe even better than mangosteen. Maybe it's because the tree is older? Maybe it's because the fruits are bigger? Maybe it's because i'm letting them ripen till more dark orange on the tree? Probably all of the above. Whatever the reason....they are awfully good. They have a complexity and intensity of taste not found in mangosteen. Great balance of sweet, tart, and a hint of bitterness. If you accidentally bite into rind, then too much bitterness. Probably has bitter xanthones like other garcinias. If selections could be made with smaller seeds, or aborted seeds, this could become a widespread commercial fruit.
The fruits this year are averaging from 50 to 70 grams. (1.8 to 2.5 ounces). I have been fertilizing the tree more regularly, and the fruits seem to have almost doubled in size. That might also account for better taste.







Oscar

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2017, 02:59:05 AM »
People here in Perth ask me about growing  mangosteen all the time. I tell them that it wont grow here but between achachairus and lucs, theyre not missing out much.

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2017, 03:35:00 AM »
I'll try to do a side by side mangosteen vs. achachairu taste off later. The really great thing about mangosteens is their seeds, which are tiny and almost non existent. It does also have a nice delicate taste that is hard to describe.
Oscar

simon_grow

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2017, 05:46:29 PM »
Thanks for the report Oscar, your fruits look huge. Hopefully someone in SoCal can fruit this here so I can try the fruit, hint hint to anyone growing this in the neighborhood! I've read so much and seen some of the Aussie commercials so I hope I'm pleasantly surprised with the taste of this fruit when my tree finally fruits.

Oscar, on a scale of 1-10, with Purple Mangosteen being about an 8, how sweet would you say a fully ripe Achachairu is? Thanks,

Simon

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2017, 08:19:53 PM »
I've tried Achachairu in Australia (named Achacha here) and the taste is unique but reminds me of other fruit that I've eaten in the 'wild' hills of Jamaica where I grew up. However, I just can't put my finger on which fruit. We have a Garcinia there that is similar but from memory is smaller than Achachairu and which we call Wild Mammee. Curiously though, the fruit in Jamaica is classified as Garcinia humilis, which is the botanical name applied in Australia to Achachairu (confusing). I've decided to go with GRIN (https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/taxonomydetail.aspx?id=417777) on this and their classification of Achachairu as Garcinia gardneriana, which I've written about at: http://www.iplantz.com/plant/755/garcinia-gardneriana. Any feedback on this naming anomaly would be appreciated. And is there anyone else that has tasted the fruit that can offer critique on my description of its flavour?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 10:28:00 PM by Balaman »

dwfl

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2017, 10:19:02 PM »
Been eating lots of achachairus this year. I'm going to have to reasses their fruit quality. They are awesome! Just as good, or maybe even better than mangosteen. Maybe it's because the tree is older? Maybe it's because the fruits are bigger? Maybe it's because i'm letting them ripen till more dark orange on the tree? Probably all of the above. Whatever the reason....they are awfully good. They have a complexity and intensity of taste not found in mangosteen. Great balance of sweet, tart, and a hint of bitterness. If you accidentally bite into rind, then too much bitterness. Probably has bitter xanthones like other garcinias. If selections could be made with smaller seeds, or aborted seeds, this could become a widespread commercial fruit.
The fruits this year are averaging from 50 to 70 grams. (1.8 to 2.5 ounces). I have been fertilizing the tree more regularly, and the fruits seem to have almost doubled in size. That might also account for better taste.


Thanks for sharing Oscar... My mouth is watering!!

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2017, 02:35:17 AM »
I've tried Achachairu in Australia (named Achacha here) and the taste is unique but reminds me of other fruit that I've eaten in the 'wild' hills of Jamaica where I grew up. However, I just can't put my finger on which fruit. We have a Garcinia there that is similar but from memory is smaller than Achachairu and which we call Wild Mammee. Curiously though, the fruit in Jamaica is classified as Garcinia humilis, which is the botanical name applied in Australia to Achachairu (confusing). I've decided to go with GRIN (https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/taxonomydetail.aspx?id=417777) on this and their classification of Achachairu as Garcinia gardneriana, which I've written about at: http://www.iplantz.com/plant/755/garcinia-gardneriana. Any feedback on this naming anomaly would be appreciated. And is there anyone else that has tasted the fruit that can offer critique on my description of its flavour?
The fruit in Jamaica is the real Garcinia humilis (previously Rheedia lateriflora). The achachairu has been mislabeled. It does not currently have a proper latin name. I've written about this in length in previous posts:
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=65.msg687#msg687
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=684.msg8018#msg8018
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=157.msg1802#msg1802
Garcinia gardeneriana is also not achachairu.
Oscar

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2017, 02:42:33 AM »
Thanks for the report Oscar, your fruits look huge. Hopefully someone in SoCal can fruit this here so I can try the fruit, hint hint to anyone growing this in the neighborhood! I've read so much and seen some of the Aussie commercials so I hope I'm pleasantly surprised with the taste of this fruit when my tree finally fruits.

Oscar, on a scale of 1-10, with Purple Mangosteen being about an 8, how sweet would you say a fully ripe Achachairu is? Thanks,

Simon
Hi Simon, hard to compare as the achachairu has a strong tart component that the mangosteen does not. But i have a brix meter and will try to get readings and post them.
Oscar

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2017, 08:21:10 AM »
Great, thanks Oscar!

Simon

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2017, 08:32:36 AM »
I'm not claiming any authoritative information here, but this is just my personal summary of tidbits on the topic from good sources, not from seed vendor websites and blogs and other such extremely unreliable sources. The major point of contention is whether we can safely ID achacha as G. gardneriana. Oscar says probably not, but solid info supports that ID, including private communication from Charles Clement of Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas da Amaz˘nia that was conveyed to me by a mutual friend. Newer information on Garcinia is also coming from Patrick Sweeney of Yale. I believe there is some DNA research on American Garcinias in the process of being published, but I don't have any details.

G. gardneriana, "bacuri mirim" (Brazil), "achachairu" (Bolivia), "achachairu corriente" (Bolivia), "achacha" (Australia/USA), "without mucronate apex", "narrowly elliptic leaves"

G. acuminata, "bacurizinho", very similar to G. gardneriana

G. macrophylla, "bacuripari", 5-8cm diameter, "scant pulp", large leaves, "prominently beaked fruit"

G. brasiliensis, "bacuripari liso", "smooth bacuripari", similar to bacuripari, 3-4cm diameter,

G. intermedia, "lemondrop", same as G. brasiliensis???

G. madruno, similar to G. macrophylla, echinate

G. benthamiana, slightly echinate

G. guacopary, "achachairu chico" (Bolivia), "broadly elliptic leaves", "mucronate apex that can pierce the skin", small fruit, "stiff pungent leaves", "soft rind", "thick, soft, spongy bark"

G. sp, "Luc's garcinia" (global internet), "Giant Luc" (global internet), "Mexican garcinia" (global internet), "limoncillo" (Mexico), larger than achacha

G. humilis, "G. lateriflora", from Monserrat, described in 1798, known in several Carribean locations, red skin, inside looks like a seedy mangosteen gone bad

In Bolivia, 5 species of Garcinia are found:
G. madruno
G. benthamiana
G. macrophylla
G. guacopary
G. gardneriana

According to Oscar's research, the mislabelling of achacha as G. humilis comes from various scientific sources over a period of many years and various publications, an error greatly amplified and propagated by the Australian farm who introduced commercial cultivation of the fruit in Australia.
Mike Parker: kefir fanatic, ethnomusicology hobbyist

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2017, 06:50:34 PM »
I'm not claiming any authoritative information here, but this is just my personal summary of tidbits on the topic from good sources, not from seed vendor websites and blogs and other such extremely unreliable sources. The major point of contention is whether we can safely ID achacha as G. gardneriana. Oscar says probably not, but solid info supports that ID, including private communication from Charles Clement of Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas da Amaz˘nia that was conveyed to me by a mutual friend. Newer information on Garcinia is also coming from Patrick Sweeney of Yale. I believe there is some DNA research on American Garcinias in the process of being published, but I don't have any details.

G. gardneriana, "bacuri mirim" (Brazil), "achachairu" (Bolivia), "achachairu corriente" (Bolivia), "achacha" (Australia/USA), "without mucronate apex", "narrowly elliptic leaves"

G. acuminata, "bacurizinho", very similar to G. gardneriana

G. macrophylla, "bacuripari", 5-8cm diameter, "scant pulp", large leaves, "prominently beaked fruit"

G. brasiliensis, "bacuripari liso", "smooth bacuripari", similar to bacuripari, 3-4cm diameter,

G. intermedia, "lemondrop", same as G. brasiliensis???

G. madruno, similar to G. macrophylla, echinate

G. benthamiana, slightly echinate

G. guacopary, "achachairu chico" (Bolivia), "broadly elliptic leaves", "mucronate apex that can pierce the skin", small fruit, "stiff pungent leaves", "soft rind", "thick, soft, spongy bark"

G. sp, "Luc's garcinia" (global internet), "Giant Luc" (global internet), "Mexican garcinia" (global internet), "limoncillo" (Mexico), larger than achacha

G. humilis, "G. lateriflora", from Monserrat, described in 1798, known in several Carribean locations, red skin, inside looks like a seedy mangosteen gone bad

In Bolivia, 5 species of Garcinia are found:
G. madruno
G. benthamiana
G. macrophylla
G. guacopary
G. gardneriana

According to Oscar's research, the mislabelling of achacha as G. humilis comes from various scientific sources over a period of many years and various publications, an error greatly amplified and propagated by the Australian farm who introduced commercial cultivation of the fruit in Australia.
Thanks for your detailed post. I will read it more carefully later when i have more time. As a quick brief response, there is not a single existing fruit book that calls achachairu G. gardneriana. Also the photos of G. gardneriarna in the books differ from what achachairu looks like. Also there were no existing achachairu trees in Brazil. All the ones planted in Brazil came from Bolivian immigrants that moved to Brazil. This fruit originates only in Bolivia. I've been researching this topic for several years, but appreciate any new information.
Oscar

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2017, 08:03:43 PM »
Where do you guys place the garcinia known commonly as 'charichuelo' or charichuela?  I have a fruit that everyone who tries it says it is achacharu, including several people from Bolivia.  But this fruit came from Bill Whitman who called it charichuelo and what I understand is that is the Peruvian name for what Bolivians call Achacharu.
Peter

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2017, 08:17:57 PM »
Where do you guys place the garcinia known commonly as 'charichuelo' or charichuela?  I have a fruit that everyone who tries it says it is achacharu, including several people from Bolivia.  But this fruit came from Bill Whitman who called it charichuelo and what I understand is that is the Peruvian name for what Bolivians call Achacharu.
Peter
The charichuela is a whole another can of worms. Like the achachairu name, in Peru charichuela refers to a whole bunch of different garcinias (rheedias). As for the one that Whitman brought back and called charichuelo, i will know better when mine fruits. I have only one tree and it has not fruited after 20+ years! The author Hoyes, from Venezuela, thought it is a variant of madrono. If you search "charichuela" there have been more detailed posts about what it might be.
Oscar

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2017, 12:42:20 AM »
Thanks for the report Oscar, your fruits look huge. Hopefully someone in SoCal can fruit this here so I can try the fruit, hint hint to anyone growing this in the neighborhood! I've read so much and seen some of the Aussie commercials so I hope I'm pleasantly surprised with the taste of this fruit when my tree finally fruits.

Oscar, on a scale of 1-10, with Purple Mangosteen being about an 8, how sweet would you say a fully ripe Achachairu is? Thanks,

Simon

Really, the taste of mangosteen and achachairu is so different they can't be compared. Achachairu have a very unique  flavor that is different from every other garcinia I have tried. From people I have let  try fruit that I brought back from Puerto Rico over the years, mangosteen is more universally liked and achachairu usually has a few people that don't like them. I like them about as much as mangosteen but I prefer madrono to achachairu. I also just got to try magnifolia a couple weeks ago and they are definitely a few notches below the others (assuming the fruit I tried was at its peak).

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2017, 01:07:46 AM »
Thanks for the report Oscar, your fruits look huge. Hopefully someone in SoCal can fruit this here so I can try the fruit, hint hint to anyone growing this in the neighborhood! I've read so much and seen some of the Aussie commercials so I hope I'm pleasantly surprised with the taste of this fruit when my tree finally fruits.

Oscar, on a scale of 1-10, with Purple Mangosteen being about an 8, how sweet would you say a fully ripe Achachairu is? Thanks,

Simon

Really, the taste of mangosteen and achachairu is so different they can't be compared. Achachairu have a very unique  flavor that is different from every other garcinia I have tried. From people I have let  try fruit that I brought back from Puerto Rico over the years, mangosteen is more universally liked and achachairu usually has a few people that don't like them. I like them about as much as mangosteen but I prefer madrono to achachairu. I also just got to try magnifolia a couple weeks ago and they are definitely a few notches below the others (assuming the fruit I tried was at its peak).
I agree with you that mangosteen and achachairu have very different tastes. What i was trying to say was about how i rated them. From 1 to 10. Previously i gave mangosteen a 9 and achachairu an 8. After this season the achachairu got bumped up to a 9, same rating (not same flavor) as mangosteen..
Oscar

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2017, 04:07:02 PM »
Obviously, the tastes of these fruits are subjective. What would interest me in comparing mangosteen and achacharu is the experience selling the fruits to the public. At my farmers market we have a pretty diversified bunch of consumers. My experience is that both fruits sell. However, if I take 150kg of each one of those two fruits the mangosteen will sell out in 3-4 hours. Selling at an identical price I would be lucky to sell 40kg of achacharu.
Does anyone have experience with this type of comparison?
Peter

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2017, 04:53:40 PM »
Hi Oscar
I am curious to know where does Luc's garcinia rank numerically on your scale?

Thanks

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2017, 07:22:34 PM »
Obviously, the tastes of these fruits are subjective. What would interest me in comparing mangosteen and achacharu is the experience selling the fruits to the public. At my farmers market we have a pretty diversified bunch of consumers. My experience is that both fruits sell. However, if I take 150kg of each one of those two fruits the mangosteen will sell out in 3-4 hours. Selling at an identical price I would be lucky to sell 40kg of achacharu.
Does anyone have experience with this type of comparison?
Peter

Maybe mangosteen is much more popular than achacharu? Mangosteen is recognized all over the places. Everyone knows and loves it. Achacharu is much less popular. In my region no one has ever known/tried/seen it. Even Vietnamese-based aussies who are very likely to know it, don't talk/share about it.

Marketing is important and people are usually afraid of trying new things I think.

Sy Tan
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 07:27:12 PM by sytanta »

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2017, 06:39:53 AM »
Obviously, the tastes of these fruits are subjective. What would interest me in comparing mangosteen and achacharu is the experience selling the fruits to the public. At my farmers market we have a pretty diversified bunch of consumers. My experience is that both fruits sell. However, if I take 150kg of each one of those two fruits the mangosteen will sell out in 3-4 hours. Selling at an identical price I would be lucky to sell 40kg of achacharu.
Does anyone have experience with this type of comparison?
Peter

Maybe mangosteen is much more popular than achacharu? Mangosteen is recognized all over the places. Everyone knows and loves it. Achacharu is much less popular. In my region no one has ever known/tried/seen it. Even Vietnamese-based aussies who are very likely to know it, don't talk/share about it.

Marketing is important and people are usually afraid of trying new things I think.

Sy Tan
I agree. people buy what they know. And mangosteen has gotten the hype of being called the ""world's best fruit", which i'm sure helps to sell them also. Achachairu is practically unknown still.
Oscar

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2017, 09:39:43 AM »
I don't completely agree with the popularity factor. Mangosteen is not so well known here.  People buy a kilo and come back in five minutes to buy another.  I have also had that happening lately with another little known fruit, pulusan.  Achacharu is not generating that kind of demand.  I freeely sample all these fruits too.  Sample both in a market setting and see what sells.
Peter

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2017, 10:44:46 AM »
Where do you guys place the garcinia known commonly as 'charichuelo' or charichuela?  I have a fruit that everyone who tries it says it is achacharu, including several people from Bolivia.  But this fruit came from Bill Whitman who called it charichuelo and what I understand is that is the Peruvian name for what Bolivians call Achacharu.
Peter
The charichuela is a whole another can of worms. Like the achachairu name, in Peru charichuela refers to a whole bunch of different garcinias (rheedias). As for the one that Whitman brought back and called charichuelo, i will know better when mine fruits. I have only one tree and it has not fruited after 20+ years! The author Hoyes, from Venezuela, thought it is a variant of madrono. If you search "charichuela" there have been more detailed posts about what it might be.

Fwiw, the 'charichuelo' Whitman brought to FL was identified as Garcinia (formerly Rheedia) acuminata by Sadhu - it is surely not Achachairu. A neighbor (also a member on this forum) and I have trees grown from seed from Whitman's 'charichuelo' tree. Oscar is right though - many of the american Garcinia species (formerly Rheedia species) share common names in different countries. Common name "madrono" is used alot for different species as well.

Finca la isla: you probably do have Achachairu if it looks like Achachairu and if it came from Whitman as I know he had a cv of Achachairu. I have trees grown from those seeds from his tree as well. Whitman called that one Garcinia gardneriana (incorrect).
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 10:56:44 AM by dwfl »

sytanta

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2017, 11:31:40 AM »
I don't completely agree with the popularity factor. Mangosteen is not so well known here.  People buy a kilo and come back in five minutes to buy another.  I have also had that happening lately with another little known fruit, pulusan.  Achacharu is not generating that kind of demand.  I freeely sample all these fruits too.  Sample both in a market setting and see what sells.
Peter

Is your mangosteen bigger than achacharu? With same price, same taste, I will tend to choose bigger fruits. Btw, keep free sampling and people will eventually have a better look at achacharu. Things always take time.

Sy Tan

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2017, 05:54:56 PM »
I don't completely agree with the popularity factor. Mangosteen is not so well known here.  People buy a kilo and come back in five minutes to buy another.  I have also had that happening lately with another little known fruit, pulusan.  Achacharu is not generating that kind of demand.  I freeely sample all these fruits too.  Sample both in a market setting and see what sells.
Peter
Where did you source your achachairu, and how long has it been fruiting for? Mine did not reach peak flavor for 3 years. Also some types of achachairu might be better than others? I don't know, but i think it would sell very well here. The only turn off is the large seeds. Taste is excellent. Maybe not on a par with the best of pulasans, but definitely on a par with best of mangosteens.
I now remember someone brought achachairu to farmer's market, had it mislabeled as mangosteen, and nobody bought. I agree wit Sytanta, it takes a lot of free samples, and sometimes years of advertising to make a fruit popular. It doesn't happen overnight. I am guessing that mangosteen has been available in Central America a lot longer than achachairu? I know there are very large plantations of mangosteen in Guatemala.
Oscar

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Re: Achachairu fruits for first time
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2017, 10:09:23 PM »
My achacharu was sourced through Bill Whitman.  It has been fruiting for probably 15 years.  I have 5 large trees with branches up to 7m long.  Bolivians buy it and like the quality.
Selling rare fruits is a speciality of mine.  I introduced salak to CR and it is a strange fruit to try but I have established a good market for it, on my own.  Every week people come looking for 'fruta serpiente'.  I have established demand for champedek, marang, and many others.  All this is accomplished through enthusiastic sampling.  Mangosteen is not very well known either.  Every week I have to sample a lot but the response is better than with most other new fruits.
Achacharu is a good fruit and it is commercial, we eat it and sell it.  But, based on my experience, it will never equal the sales, at the same price, as mangosteen. 
Durian doesn't have a very wide appeal but it makes up for it with a better price and a particularly dedicated consumer.
I would be interested to hear of someon else's experience selling Achacharu.  I am currently ripping out rambutan and planting other fruits focused on the farmers market.  I am currently planting more salak, pululan, durian, tampoi, marang, Mamey, and others.  I would plant more Achacharu if it worked better for me but I'm going to stay with the 5 trees I have.
Peter

 

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